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Mixing Two Seperate 2" Tapes
Old 18th September 2008
  #1
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Mixing Two Seperate 2" Tapes

Hi GS,

I've got a rather....transformational piece that I've written on looking to track and then have somebody mix that's roughly 20-30 minutes. The issue is that it's continuous from one song to the other.

Now, I've purchased my own 2" JH24 with the intention of using it. I would really like to use 24 track heads instead of 16 track for the sake of depth in arranging. However, my concern is that I'll really need to run a 24 track machine at 30 ips to get above the noise floor.

I'm facing a crisis come mixing time so I'm wondering what my options and results would be.

Point blank...What can I do? This project has taken a lot of planning and it looks like I'm still laying the groundwork.
Old 18th September 2008
  #2
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soup call me
Old 18th September 2008
  #3
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Buy a 5000 foot reel of tape.
That will get you 33 minutes of recording time. So with tones and record pad you should have around 30 minutes of recording time.
Old 18th September 2008
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaidsroom View Post
soup call me
Awesome, thanks Jack. I'll research JH24's and if they fit 14" reels.
Old 18th September 2008
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicpope View Post
Buy a 5000 foot reel of tape.
That will get you 33 minutes of recording time. So with tones and record pad you should have around 30 minutes of recording time.
Cool man, thanks! I'll see if it fits!
Old 18th September 2008
  #6
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the JH-24 does work fine with 14" reels, i do it all the time.
the only thing is, speeding up in rewind and fast forward takes a whole lot more time on 14" reels.
if you need to go back and forth a lot, i'd use normal reels, it's really a pain on 14".
best,

tom

analoghaus :: studio label verlag - home
Old 18th September 2008
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Thing View Post
the JH-24 does work fine with 14" reels, i do it all the time.
the only thing is, speeding up in rewind and fast forward takes a whole lot more time on 14" reels.
if you need to go back and forth a lot, i'd use normal reels, it's really a pain on 14".
best,

tom

analoghaus :: studio label verlag - home
Hi Reel Thing, that's great news. Thanks a lot for your feedback.

Not sure about the rewinding and fast forwarding. Based on this project it's going to be very one take. It's a piano concierto that I've been rehearsing on and off for over a year. That's where the pain resides as far as I can tell. Gotta get it right.
Old 18th September 2008
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
Based on this project it's going to be very one take. It's a piano concierto that I've been rehearsing on and off for over a year. That's where the pain resides as far as I can tell. Gotta get it right.
A piano concerto? Personally I wouldn't use analogue 24 track without Dolby SR for orchestral recording. It's going to get very hissy in the quiet sections.
Old 18th September 2008
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiserableSod View Post
A piano concerto? Personally I wouldn't use analogue 24 track without Dolby SR for orchestral recording. It's going to get very hissy in the quiet sections.
that's not necessarily true. classical music has been recorded on tape for more than half a century now, and there are great recordings out there...
@ 30ips. a great part of the hiss is beyond the audible range, so it doesn't matter anyway.
then i would align the machine to maybe 1-1 1/2 dBs + in the high end, which can be taken off on the repro alignment. with a slightly heavier overbias (1/4-1/2 dB) than is recommended for the tape you're ready to make a recording on which hiss is only a nice and integral part of the atmosphere.

tom

analoghaus :: studio label verlag - home
Old 18th September 2008
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Thing View Post
that's not necessarily true. classical music has been recorded on tape for more than half a century now, and there are great recordings out there...
There are indeed many great historic analogue classical recordings, but they were mostly recorded directly to stereo. We are talking multitrack here.

If you're recording multitrack would really recommend using Dolby SR.
I had a quick look at Audio Rents, Hollywood and they're doing an XP24SR rack for $160 /day.

Plus you can (should) run at 15ips with SR...
Old 18th September 2008
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiserableSod View Post
We are talking multitrack here.

If you're recording multitrack would really recommend using Dolby SR.
you're absolutely right.

tom

analoghaus :: studio label verlag - home
Old 18th September 2008
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiserableSod View Post
Plus you can (should) run at 15ips with SR...

...and WHY IS this?

I have recorded SR @ 30 ips MANY, MANY times.
Didn't most Studer 827s come with SR and didn't/don't most people run them at 30 ips?
Old 18th September 2008
  #13
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Also, Soup...

You could work on 10.5" reels and then assemble the project onto a 14" reel for a continual mix.

Why does anything have to be one take?

Splice baby!
They've been doing editing since BEFORE tape even came along!
Old 18th September 2008
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
...and WHY IS this?

I have recorded SR @ 30 ips MANY, MANY times.
Didn't most Studer 827s come with SR and didn't/don't most people run them at 30 ips?
I was taught that 15ips gives better low end response than 30ips with SR.

I don't know how true this is, but I've heard it from several sources...
Old 18th September 2008
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
Also, Soup...

You could work on 10.5" reels and then assemble the project onto a 14" reel for a continual mix.

Why does anything have to be one take?

Splice baby!
They've been doing editing since BEFORE tape even came along!
Well, the reason it has to be done with one take is the fact that it's a continuous piece. Doing multiple takes would make things crowded real quick.

I've also heard nothing but badness about Dolby NR. At this point in time, I'd rather just overbias.
Old 18th September 2008
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
Well, the reason it has to be done with one take is the fact that it's a continuous piece. Doing multiple takes would make things crowded real quick.

I've also heard nothing but badness about Dolby NR. At this point in time, I'd rather just overbias.
Old 18th September 2008
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiserableSod View Post
Not the entire thing. Just each section.

But there's never a significant 'cut' in the piece in terms of mixing. They all blend together.

My concern with this thread is tape length/speed/fidelity.
Old 18th September 2008
  #18
Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Thing View Post
the JH-24 does work fine with 14" reels, i do it all the time.
the only thing is, speeding up in rewind and fast forward takes a whole lot more time on 14" reels.
if you need to go back and forth a lot, i'd use normal reels, it's really a pain on 14".
best,

tom

analoghaus :: studio label verlag - home
I feel a bit silly, but I can't fit a 14" reel on our JH-24. What am I missing?
Old 18th September 2008
  #19
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Sigma's Avatar
i remember using 2 48 track sony digitals for Patti Labelle live doing the over lap stagger start

$500,000 in now useless tape machines
Old 19th September 2008
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
I've also heard nothing but badness about Dolby NR. At this point in time, I'd rather just overbias.


Good luck with your recording. I won't waste any more time trying to help you.
Old 19th September 2008
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiserableSod View Post


Good luck with your recording. I won't waste any more time trying to help you.
K, no need to panic.

I do tests.

It's just I'm a one-man band, I mean studio. It's hard to play janitor sometimes. That's my only main reason for asking so many questions.

Thanks anyway man.
Old 19th September 2008
  #22
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Don Clendenon's Avatar
 

can you put 14 inch reels on a jh24 i thought it would only accept 12 1/2 inch reels

you cna mix two separate tapes if you have a syncronizer system like a timeline and two machines they will lock with smpte time code as a reference
Old 19th September 2008
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiserableSod View Post
I was taught that 15ips gives better low end response than 30ips with SR.

I don't know how true this is, but I've heard it from several sources...
In general, choice of tape speed has always been a trade-off: faster tape speed means diminished bass response and slower tape means reduced high frequency response and more hiss. NR can help reduce hiss and pre-emphasis can help even up response curves but neither is a panacea.

There's not much contemporary use of tape for classical/orchestral at this point, from my reading.
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