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Mixing Pop Lead Vocals Dynamics Plugins
Old 8th October 2008
  #61
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Beyersound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janesaid2me View Post
I was just wondering where most of you insert your de-esser in your chain of vocals....should it be after the compression and EQ or beforehand?
I do it after. The EQ will either drive or attenuate the esses, and the compression will squash down whatever was done in the chain before it (that is also why I like the EQ after the comp). De-essing seems to work best last.
Old 8th October 2008
  #62
Gear Head
 

Hey Tony, thanks for sharing this great info, and for the time to do this.
I have three questions, did you use the harmonizer on the lead or in the harmonies? and did you mult the lead and treated differently? what effect (maybe a whisper track? EQ?) did you use to get this air on the harmonies?
Actually a bunch of questions heh

Thanks
Old 9th October 2008
  #63
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Rednose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
So here is a vocal example of a tune I am producing.

The singer name is Shelea.
The mic is a Sony C800G.
The mic pre is the A Designs Pacifica.
Then into the A Designs Hammer.
Then into the Tube-Tech CL1B.
Straight into PT HD.

There are two examples.
1. The vocals by themselves. http://www.tonysound.com/mixes/NeverThought-Vocals.wav
2. The vocals in the track. http://www.tonysound.com/mixes/NeverThought-Track.wav




Now the plugins for mixing:
The plugin on the lead is http://www.tonysound.com/mixes/Waves_G_Channel.jpg
with a little of http://www.tonysound.com/mixes/Waves_DeEsser.jpg

The reverb is (send level -20) http://www.tonysound.com/mixes/Reverb_One.jpg
The delay is next (send level -30) http://www.tonysound.com/mixes/Medium_Delay.jpg
And a harmonizer (send level -20) http://www.tonysound.com/mixes/Harmonizer.jpg
Sounds great Tony!
Old 9th October 2008
  #64
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednose View Post
Sounds great Tony!
Thanks!
That's Michael Nielsen (audiomichael) on guitar.
I can't say more than I have because that song is going on my new DVD.
We cut that tune and showed Shelea singing all the lead and bgvs for the song.
Next week we are shooting the mix portion of the DVD.
Old 16th January 2009
  #65
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FireMoon's Avatar
+1 one for the vocal echo not having to match the tempo..There was a time when many records were made without anyone ever actually asking or mentioning tempo other than to say... It's mid paced... it's fast.... it's slow... People would do something really dumb... use their ears, till it fitted... heh
Old 16th January 2009
  #66
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
So the chain was the:
Sony C800G > Pacifica > Hammer > Tube-Tech CL1B > Pro Tools HD
Then you see the plugins above.
Hi Tony,

you know how much I respect your work.
But what would be your advise if someone is not owning the above equipment.

I mean take me all I have is two great pre amps and a few Neumanns and Gefells....AKGs and a good sounding room.

So at the time there is no $$$ for a nice compressor like the CL 1 B.
And I think I am not the only one here. We are not award winning mixing enginners... so money is an issue for us.

So what would be your advise to work with maybe a Neumann U 87 AI and a VintageDesign DMP Neve clone.

How would you treat the vocal after this in the box?

Thanks for all your great advises in the past you gave me.
And thanks for your interesting tutorial CDs.....loved the trailer about recording.... is the CD ready yet?

Andreas
Old 10th May 2012
  #67
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckyboard View Post
thumbsup
Old 10th May 2012
  #68
Gear Maniac
Here's what I generally do

1) First and foremost treat it with your flavour of choice in VCC or Decapitator. I like the E channel in Decapitator, I lust after a real TG2 and always reach for it in a studio that has the real thing! Personal preference.

2). EQ. Use a good one like Softube Trident A - Range that has a nice tone and don't be afraid to boost. Also HPF as high as you can without losing bigness.

3) Compression. This is a biggie as other posters have rightly emphasised. Various compressors work best based on the singer. Waves RVox is great for transparency and works like a limiter. Waves API 2500 is great for that breathy, Katy Perry style smashed sound. You could of course try the LA2A for smoothing followed by 1176 for peak limiting which is I think the actual chain used for KP but again depending on the vocalist a different sounding compressor will give you the same result.

Make sure you try different release times too! Many forget how important they are to overall feel.

4) Experiment with above order!! If you need to de-ess after compression don't be afraid to add another EQ afterwards with a high shelf or add a side chain to the comp instead, you want that breathy, detailed sound! Sometimes though, putting EQ after compression just works better.

It all depends on the vocalist. I've lost count of how many different mics/plugin/technique combinations I've used to end up with the same result. Trust your ears and keep your eyes on the prize!
Old 13th May 2012
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janesaid2me View Post
I was just wondering where most of you insert your de-esser in your chain of vocals....should it be after the compression and EQ or beforehand?
I put it last. This seems to be the consensus around here.
Old 13th May 2012
  #70
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What about de-essing at the tracking stage?
Old 13th May 2012
  #71
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Jorg's Avatar
If the s's are crazy then I put it first and if it needs another one after EQ and compression.

on mad s problems I find it better to use 2 de-essers rather 1 doing all the work.
Even better is of course drawing them out.
Old 13th May 2012
  #72
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One way to fix esses? Don't set your compressor attack time incorrectly. I've never heard a silbant singer. If the track is silbant, you (or tracking engineer if someone else) did something wrong.
Old 14th May 2012
  #73
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headspin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssprod19 View Post
my lead vocals sound a bit lackluster when compared to the mainstream "commercial" CD's (mostly pop/urban). Current setup is: Brauner Phantom -> Pacifica pre -> DBX 160a -> Rosetta 800.

My usual mix plug chain is: Logic EQ (low freq rolled off) -> Ren Comp (voc preset) -> Logic Plat Verb -> Logic Ster Delay. !
That's a lot of goop on the plugs. You should have a great signal. Try parallel'ing an R Vox if you need more uumph.

Now putting a reverb into a delay sounds like it could get really muddy. I'd reverse those. Better yet I'd put the reverb on an aux send.

What reverb settings do you use? "Pre-delay" reverb setting is important because it allows some breathing room before the reverb. Also, eq'ing the reverb really helps. Often times I like to cut the highs and lows off the verb, just allow the midrange thru.

Space Designer is a far better reverb choice for Logic, imo.
Old 14th May 2012
  #74
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Dpro's Avatar
well I might as well toss my tricks into this

tube mic pre going
once inside the box compressor on the main vocal track channels set around 4:1 26 ms attack 29 ms release, knee at 1.0 now here comes the fun part. I setup a bus with a vocal chain on it. I turn the feed to the bus all the way up. You control the level of the vocal chain on the bus channel.
This is the part you can adjust it to the singer. If I do EQ its very little. I then put a short reverb on around .8 set to wet signal no dry. followed by a DeEsser.
This widens out the vocals in psuedo stereo field. Sometimes I drop delay on it but only if it fits the song.

Oh and then of course I ride the vocal tracks with automation. As yes I do have a tendency to layer vocal tracks.
This will give you big vocals that will stand out and up against anything on the radio today.

I am working with a very Dynamic singer and this has turned out some amazing vocal tracks. Try it out.
Old 14th May 2012
  #75
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Justsomeguy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyGoldstein View Post
What about de-essing at the tracking stage?
i've done it a handful of times when i've been engineering in setups with limited mics, pres etc so have had to use vocal mics that didn't really work with the singer but i had no other choices. As with any effect when tracking just be very subtle with it because if you get it wrong you get that horrible "life sucked out of track" effect.
Old 14th May 2012
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyGoldstein View Post
What about de-essing at the tracking stage?
That's where I tend to do it, right after the compressor and EQ.
Old 14th May 2012
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
I've never heard a silbant singer. If the track is silbant, you (or tracking engineer if someone else) did something wrong.
really disagree with this.

i know a few female singers who naturally have sibilance that will rip your head off.

in regard to the original post- my general technique is as follows:

1. hardware 1176 during tracking. not afraid to hit it hard.
2. small amount of compression during mixing- Vari-Mu hardware, or Waves LA-2a/LA-3a
3. de-esser
4. peak limiter
5. automation, automation, automation.

and then the usual effects- verb, delay, doubler/harmonizer, distortion...whatever's called for.
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