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Proof that a lot of us are wrong. Condenser Microphones
Old 27th August 2008
  #1
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Proof that a lot of us are wrong.

I have to admit that I spend a bit if time in here knocking auto tune, Protools, Beat detective , loud mastering and the general cut and paste mentality of recording. Although I'll probably still continue to do so, because I think these things are being misused in epic proportions, However, I can't believe how great Katy Perry's "I Kissed A Girl Is". It blew my mind the first time I heard and It still does....It has all the elements (listed above) that I love to hate and it still kicks my ass. Whoever mixed that is f-ing amazing. Tons of autotune, tons of cut and paste, tons of compression/limiting etc....

...great pop song....great vocal performance....perfect instrument placement...perfect mix...perfect example of using whatever tools you have to make it rock.


Anyone know who mixed that? He/she is my hero.

Nick
Old 27th August 2008
  #2
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Ken Walker's Avatar
Greg Wells produced it, and maybe he mixed it too? There was a thread about this song a month or so ago. Search and you might find it.
Old 27th August 2008
  #3
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nukmusic's Avatar
 

they are a lot of great song out there....sometimes people just overlook them.
Old 27th August 2008
  #4
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpaw View Post
Greg Wells produced it, and maybe he mixed it too? There was a thread about this song a month or so ago. Search and you might find it.
Actually Dr Luke produced that track.

I also must add that although the song is catchy I think the recording sounds way too bright, loud and distorted YMMV...
Old 27th August 2008
  #5
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allencollins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick View Post
I have to admit that I spend a bit if time in here knocking auto tune, Protools, Beat detective , loud mastering and the general cut and paste mentality of recording. Although I'll probably still continue to do so, because I think these things are being misused in epic proportions, However, I can't believe how great Katy Perry's "I Kissed A Girl Is". It blew my mind the first time I heard and It still does....It has all the elements (listed above) that I love to hate and it still kicks my ass. Whoever mixed that is f-ing amazing. Tons of autotune, tons of cut and paste, tons of compression/limiting etc....

...great pop song....great vocal performance....perfect instrument placement...perfect mix...perfect example of using whatever tools you have to make it rock.


Anyone know who mixed that? He/she is my hero.

Nick

katy who?
Old 27th August 2008
  #6
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Got to agree, when I first heard it was blown away, did a search a few weeks ago on here as I was looking for who mixed it also, so it's joe zook. for me the genius is in the chorus with all that space for the vox and bassline, not what one is expecting. Joe zook you rule.
Old 27th August 2008
  #7
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick View Post
I have to admit that I spend a bit if time in here knocking auto tune, Protools, Beat detective , loud mastering and the general cut and paste mentality of recording. Although I'll probably still continue to do so, because I think these things are being misused in epic proportions, However, I can't believe how great Katy Perry's "I Kissed A Girl Is". It blew my mind the first time I heard and It still does....It has all the elements (listed above) that I love to hate and it still kicks my ass. Whoever mixed that is f-ing amazing. Tons of autotune, tons of cut and paste, tons of compression/limiting etc....

...great pop song....great vocal performance....perfect instrument placement...perfect mix...perfect example of using whatever tools you have to make it rock.


Anyone know who mixed that? He/she is my hero.

Nick
That is just the way a Pop tune is becoming music.
A friend of mine was a member of Alphaville he is a master in cutting setting things straight in time programming instruments.

If you would do the same with a Blues/Jazz/Rock thing it would sound like ****.

my 2 cents...
Old 27th August 2008
  #8
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macgee's Avatar
i think it's a great track. her track 'You're So Gay' is brilliant too

i loved the use of formant shifting in the part just after the chorus
Old 27th August 2008
  #9
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This shows how important the title is. Here it is in fact everything. Performance, instruments and mix means nothing.

Without the title, we would never have heard the song.
Old 27th August 2008
  #10
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Sk106's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
That is just the way a Pop tune is becoming music.
A friend of mine was a member of Alphaville he is a master in cutting setting things straight in time programming instruments.

If you would do the same with a Blues/Jazz/Rock thing it would sound like ****.

my 2 cents...
I agree. It's the close micing, slick sound idiom ... and possibly the enthusiasm of exploring engineering that has created this fashion that we have today, and it's mostly popular music that does it. A few actually uses the technological advances to create new art, as opposed to using it to do stupid things; like mockup a symphony orchestra where every single instrument is "in your face" close, saying it preserves the individual sound quality of the instruments better.

I enjoy watching these short 5 minute donald duck episodes. Especially considering that everything is recorded live in one pass - music (30 piece orchestra), sound fx (all acoustic) and dialogue. About 50 people in the studio looking at a conductor, not at a silver screen. And baby, check out the sync of those guys. It's mindblowing.
http://studioservices.go.com/media/d...l/hi_pict8.jpg I'm certain however, that the knowledge of how it was recorded is far from the only emotional ingredient that makes it magic - compared to much top 40 music.
Old 27th August 2008
  #11
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk106 View Post
I enjoy watching these short 5 minute donald duck episodes. Especially considering that everything is recorded live in one pass - music (30 piece orchestra), sound fx (all acoustic) and dialogue. About 50 people in the studio looking at a conductor, not at a silver screen. And baby, check out the sync of those guys. It's mindblowing.
http://studioservices.go.com/media/d...l/hi_pict8.jpg I'm certain however, that the knowledge of how it was recorded is far from the only emotional ingredient that makes it magic - compared to much top 40 music.
Yes this is the higher ART of real engineering.
I often watch "Live from Abbey Road" and every-time I hear the nice room of the studio (B) I think, and the great performance of the musicians my hair on my neck stands up and I am a bit sad about not to have a great sounding tracking room.

But anyway you are right performance and arrangement is much more important as any equipment.
And the Pop attitude which we can listen in this tune here is great without any question....

I deeply believe that every different way how we produce music has a big influence to the sound of the artists.
How they perform in the studio.

The Beatles knew that it was hard to cut and paste so they deliverd great performance from the start on.

Today copy and paste is a synonym of modern production and I think this is our sound of 2008.

Overdubbing was new one day right.
DAWs are still young and we need to discover how to use them to get the best out of them.
Old 27th August 2008
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Whatver about the mix, its a terrible song, do you really think anyone will remember this song in ten years time?

I think this thread just goes to prove how todays engineers are losing the ability to identify good music.
Old 27th August 2008
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeynyuk View Post
Whatver about the mix, its a terrible song, do you really think anyone will remember this song in ten years time?

I think this thread just goes to prove how todays engineers are losing the ability to identify good music.
Do you know the history of your industry?...you know the contemporary pop song?...I guess you're too cool for school to allow yourself to appreciate great work. That's some great work there..I think your comment just goes to show how you wouldn't know good music if it smacked you in the face....and....my post was about how we (today's engineers) like to blame the tools for the state of our industry....my point is that we should stop making excuses and just use whatever tools we are given to make really effective music...like the dude who mixed that song....BTW "I Kissed A Girl" is supposed to be fun. Not all good music is supposed to change the world or blow your mind.

Nick
Old 27th August 2008
  #14
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squeegeeboy's Avatar
 

i agree with nicky nick, i think it sounds great, and it's fun, the song definintely has a vibe and a character, whether one likes it or not. i personally prefer to "play" music as opposed to "work" music, makes the 40-60 hours a week i spend with either a guitar in my hand or in the studio a lot more pleasant. i've met enough bitter musicians that i sure as hell don't want to add to the ranks!
Old 27th August 2008
  #15
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macgee's Avatar
exactly, i too agree with nickynick

let's have fun making music.

there's old school ways of making music and there new ways of making music. some of the old school guys would have no idea how to use the technology we have available to us today and they would have thought then, wow, that is cool, we don't need to worry about this and that. those guys knew it was a pain to do certain things and takes could've been screwed and possibly songs if something was done wrong.

embrace the technology, work the way you can; have fun and make some damn music

there is an art to making music, whether you do it the old way or the new way, who cares.

one thing is certain, we all know a good song when we hear it (even if some might disagree; that's just taste) and it's still an art to make a song sound amazing and make the 'hairs on the back of your neck stand up'

i've made songs that give people shivers down their spine and have made people cry...i've touched people with my work so i must be doing something right
Old 27th August 2008
  #16
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Must Agree, Crap song. It's like singing a song for 3 year olds with poo poo and wee wee in the lyrics. They will think it's cool. I think our youth has better things to think about instead of making out with your own sex. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Who is the executive producer who put the money into this. No moral judgment at all. a song aimed at pre-pubesent girls about lesbianism. C'mon get a reality check If you want to be blown away with production and mixing listen to some Shpongle.
Old 27th August 2008
  #17
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurubuzz View Post
Must Agree, Crap song. It's like singing a song for 3 year olds with poo poo and wee wee in the lyrics. They will think it's cool. I think our youth has better things to think about instead of making out with your own sex. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Who is the executive producer who put the money into this. No moral judgment at all. a song aimed at pre-pubesent girls about lesbianism. C'mon get a reality check If you want to be blown away with production and mixing listen to some Shpongle.
One of my artists is a lesbian. She finds it funny yet mildy offensive.... I just find it rubbish and not worth a ting. But that's all subjective.

If you like it, you like it. No worries.
Old 27th August 2008
  #18
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Wow. I'm really, really out of touch. I know it. You don't have to tell me. But three times I clicked on the little audition button on iTunes to hear a sample of that track. I just don't get why that's such a great track. I mean, to me, it's anything BUT.

I mean, 'splain it to me. Should I buy it? Is there something I'm missing in that little snippet?
Old 27th August 2008
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Wow. I'm really, really out of touch. I know it. You don't have to tell me. But three times I clicked on the little audition button on iTunes to hear a sample of that track. I just don't get why that's such a great track. I mean, to me, it's anything BUT.

I mean, 'splain it to me. Should I buy it? Is there something I'm missing in that little snippet?
I'm just as jaded and unfazed as the next guy....believe me....but that is a great pop track...if you don't get it...maybe you're too old for rock n' roll Henry. Like I said...it's not gonna start a movement...it's just extremely well delivered, clever and brilliantly mixed... a ton of fun...just wanted to give props to the guy who mixed it...

...it's more about the creative use of modern tools which I and many others love to bash...I'm just sayin'....

Nick
Old 27th August 2008
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
One of my artists is a lesbian. She finds it funny yet mildy offensive.... I just find it rubbish and not worth a ting. But that's all subjective.

If you like it, you like it. No worries.
one of your artists is a lesbian? wow welcome to the 1980's.
Old 27th August 2008
  #21
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick View Post
I'm just as jaded and unfazed as the next guy....believe me....but that is a great pop track...if you don't get it...maybe you're too old for rock n' roll Henry. Like I said...it's not gonna start a movement...it's just extremely well delivered, clever and brilliantly mixed... a ton of fun...just wanted to give props to the guy who mixed it...

...it's more about the creative use of modern tools which I and many others love to bash...I'm just sayin'....

Nick
I don't buy the "maybe I'm too old" thing. Maybe it's true. I think anyone of any age can hear anything. It might take a lot more effort. I'm willing to put in the effort. Just tell me why it's so great. Is it the mix? Is it the song? What is it about the song that moves you so? The hook? The lyrics? The groove? The sounds? The rhythm?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Just listening to the snippets, mind you, but ur so gay sounds much better to me, as a cool song.
Old 27th August 2008
  #22
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickynicknick View Post
one of your artists is a lesbian? wow welcome to the 1980's.
you big boncer
heh
Old 27th August 2008
  #23
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kittyboy's Avatar
 

Heard the itunes sample and have to say wow, that is really ****e to me, song and production. I agree with certain comments here--it's the title that grabs the average listener and then the "oooh, lesbo song" titillation that gets them to buy it. I think it's a cool idea for a song, don't get me wrong, I just think it's pretty lowest-common-denominator in it's execution. I'll bet a band like Rilo Kiley, for instance, could do a cool song about a girl kissing a girl, but this song just sounds like more of the same modern **** I hear, *tons* of sound and fury signifying *nothing*. It's just loud and crass, and 10% clever at most. It's *novel* I suppose.


But to demonstrate just how out of it I am, I watched "Singin' in the rain" in it's entirety for the first time the other night and was blown away by the quality of tunes, dancing, visuals, story, and production. Blown away, stunned, cheering out loud in sections. Jesus, what an achievement.


There has to still be room in the market for well-crafted songs that actually say something, that tell a story well, or uplift the listener, or all of the above.

Such songs will always have an audience. They're just harder to write and execute!
Old 27th August 2008
  #24
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The (over)use of Autotune bugs me way more than any lyrical content. It blows my mind that such harmless 'let's be a bit provocative' and rather plainly written lyrics could cause any 'stir'....

The tune is very catchy though, the melody is memorable which doesn't happen too often these days with mainstream pop.
Old 27th August 2008
  #25
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my point being - it's NOT a "lesbo" song. It's some dumb asses trading off of other peoples natural state of sexuality - "ooh look at me - I can play in the other side" - as if it's some kind of taboo. It isn't. It's poking fun.... so I don't like it..... it's more than a little dumb....

I don't care for the sound of it - but that's no judgement - merely my taste.

Aside from the mild lyrical "phnar"ness - it's just boring. I mean "lame beyond belief" dull middle of the road lifeless boring. Really don't get what you see in it? Sam Sparro it aint.... and even that's dull !!
Old 27th August 2008
  #26
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
In my first session in a real studio I learned at first sentence before we started.
It all depends on taste. Different people have different taste I think too this is good Pop Song.,,,maybe a lot over-compressed....
Old 27th August 2008
  #27
I certainly enjoyed the video I saw of this a few weeks back, a lot of fun, fine arrangement, fun vid. I attributed at least some of the issues to typical video audio enhancement-cum-degradation. There's so much worse out there.

I was trying to follow a song down through multiple versions and stumbled onto a presumably relatively recent Amy Grant song. (Wasn't the same tune, after all, but I listened to the first minute or so.)

Grant's got an ok voice and has always seemed like she could hit the notes OK... but this track had robo-tuning wrenchmarks on and off all the way through -- it was shockingly bad work. I was just freaked out that a major label could put out such shoddy, shoddy product.

I had to put on some Linda Ronstadt just to wash the awful taste of Grant out of my mouth.
Old 27th August 2008
  #28
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henryrobinett's Avatar
I'm thinking that maybe the first several hearings of this song was on music video. That can skew your opinion, especially on the subject matter. Titillating.
Old 27th August 2008
  #29
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henryrobinett's Avatar
OK, I downloaded Kissed a Girl and Ur So Gay. I much prefer the latter tune. Kissed a Girl is OK. I don't hear what's so fantastic about it. It's an OK song as far as what I can tell. Maybe I've just heard too many songs that sound like this. It's kind of bubble gum. I've liked a lot of bubble gum in my life.
Old 27th August 2008
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I'm thinking that maybe the first several hearings of this song was on music video. That can skew your opinion, especially on the subject matter. Titillating.
your kidding right?...are you trying to qualify my opinion?...in fact I've never seen the video...listen boys, I don't care if you don't like the song.... the dude who mixed it did a great job period. you guys can squawck about how smart you are but that ain't what this is about...If you are "above" this song, then move along because I certainly can't understand what good music is...BTW Henry I've already stated (a couple of times) why I think this tune is so good. Your snarky comments are disappointing. Usually you have quality things to say. Whatever.

Nick
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