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late 70s - snare sound
Old 21st March 2005
  #1
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
late 70s - snare sound

Hey!

I really like the snare sounds on the records of Iggy pop, David Bowie or La Peste from the late 70s and early 80s. It seems to me that they tuned the snare really low.

Do you know the way (mic, amps, compression, tuning) how they achieved these really fat snare sounds in those days?

THANKS for any help!!!

bye
michael
Old 21st March 2005
  #2
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
By the way...

Do you know any articles, sites or books where I could find informations about the typical recording process of those years (late 70s)? Or particular examples of records, as Iggy Pop, Talking Heads, Blondie, Bowie, etc.

THANKS!!!
bye
michael
Old 21st March 2005
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Get an old 70s snare....try a Ludwig Supra...can't go wrong there as a starting point for any snare sound.
Then tune it a tad lower, put on a pinstripe or even evans head on top. Muffle it to death. Live it'll sound like hell, but if you add reverb correctly, it'll give you that sound on tape...er, on DAW....
later,
m

PS...Google "drum tuning" or similar to find techniques for getting that fat, wet, 70s sound.
Old 21st March 2005
  #4
C/G
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C/G's Avatar
 

I am a fan of that snare sound too. I bought myself an old 14" x 8" that does the trick. I got mine 18 ply so it is more versatile than just having that 70's sound. You can get an old Tama Superstar Birch snare 14" x 7" off ebay that would do the trick. They have that 70's vibe.
Old 21st March 2005
  #5
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
might it be....tape compression ?? (aka SATAN)
fee paid to SNL
Old 21st March 2005
  #6
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
THANK YOU SO MUCH

...
Old 21st March 2005
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
It's all in the source. Tape some cloth or paper towel to a low tuned drum. If you have the option use a drum with eight lugs instead of ten. An older drum will also have a more rounded barring edge and might help, or might push it too far.
Old 21st March 2005
  #8
Gear Nut
 
toque-eh!'s Avatar
 

a lot of the time those sounds were done with deep old slingerland radio king single ply snares with rounder bearing edges, tuned low, muffled, etc. a deep ludwig supraphonic can do it too. you need a pretty dead room too.

as Drumsound mentioned, it's the source, it's not so much gear or tweaks.
Old 22nd March 2005
  #9
JTR
Lives for gear
 

Well, the purists have spoken; go to the source.

now

throw a glove or wallet on the top
dip your lo-mids (250-500)
boost yer bass/treb
gate / compress with usual offenders from that era
add plate
collect gold record
do coke
enter rehab
Old 22nd March 2005
  #10
Gear Nut
 
toque-eh!'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTR
Well, the purists have spoken; go to the source.

now

throw a glove or wallet on the top
dip your lo-mids (250-500)
boost yer bass/treb
gate / compress with usual offenders from that era
add plate
collect gold record
do coke
enter rehab
open the gate and go directly to "'80's". do not pass go...
Old 22nd March 2005
  #11
Lives for gear
 
kudzu's Avatar
 

Ludwig Black Beauty snare....got me the 70's rock/punk sound....was a good room tho!!!!
Old 22nd March 2005
  #12
Gear maniac
 
roughly's Avatar
 

I have a fair amount of luck for that by using Genara Dry G2 perforated head on the top, then tune the head on the top low (i mean low, it should really vibrate in your chest), and a bit of gaffers here and there.

It's true that a Ringo-style pack of Chesterfields will work, but so does a wallet (mine is empty, so i don't mind using it on "their" drums).

It'll sound "slushy-icky" in the room, but cool with your crazy EQ. Don't expect too much from your overheads in the way of great tones.

I like a 545 for this ....


Now for "Blah Blah Blah" they used a linn drum ......FYI
Old 22nd March 2005
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTR
Well, the purists have spoken; go to the source.

now

throw a glove or wallet on the top
dip your lo-mids (250-500)
boost yer bass/treb
gate / compress with usual offenders from that era
add plate
collect gold record
do coke
enter rehab
Best Post Ever! I did a spit take at my monitor.
Old 22nd March 2005
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Darius van H's Avatar
 

tape-hit hard
Old 22nd March 2005
  #15
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timtoonz's Avatar
My first studio experience was back in the 70's with producer/engineer Dixon Van Winkle who - I believe - was pal of Phil Ramone and worked on records for Billy Joel and Paul McCartney among others. Granted, at the time I was young and stupid enough not to care and only realized much later that I should've been paying much more attention.

But the thing that really did get me was that he had me tune my snare so low that it almost wrinkled the top head, then had me tape my wallet to it. It sounded like crap and I was just about to start whining until i put on the headsets and -- WHACK! There was "that" sound I'd heard on so many records, but never from my own kit. It really was a revelation about the difference between studios and 'the real world'.

In my own later attempts to recreate the above, I find that a second mic under the snare is almost mandatory so that your 'thud' has at least some sizzle to it. I wish I'd been clued up enough way back when to notice which mic Mr. VW favored on snare. Then a fearless approach to EQ and compression is required. I often end up cutting around 500, boosting narrowly at 120 and up at 4-5k. But it depends very much on the snare and the tuning. Keep cranking till it sounds good. Then crank some more.

For me, I find the hardest part of 'the 70's sound' is figuring out what to do with the overheads. There's very little room in the old school sound, but you gotta get your cymbals from somewhere...

(Last note - the other trick I picked up from that initial session was that they stuck an oscillator with a 60hz tone on another channel and triggered the gate off my kick drum: boom. Instant, unnaturally fat solid kick drum. I was both outraged and exhilirated at the same time.)
Old 22nd March 2005
  #16
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roughly
It's true that a Ringo-style pack of Chesterfields will work, but so does a wallet (mine is empty, so i don't mind using it on "their" drums).
can you even get those anymore? i used to smoke them but ultimately switched to camels as they disappeared from the stores... i wonder if camels will give me a different tone? or does the cig need to be vintage like a pack of lucky strikes?
Old 22nd March 2005
  #17
JTR
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphajerk
can you even get those anymore? i used to smoke them but ultimately switched to camels as they disappeared from the stores... i wonder if camels will give me a different tone? or does the cig need to be vintage like a pack of lucky strikes?
I have a number of sealed cartons of NOS Chesterfields, Luckies, & Pall Mall
(pre filter, of course - for vintage tone)

There's a low reserve, and I'll consider trades...
Old 23rd March 2005
  #18
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~ufo~'s Avatar
did someone mention the snare ought to be wooden yet?

brass snares hardly ever work for me anyway....

some snares loose their punch when you tune the really low though.
best results I got so far is a remo maple snare and my band's trusty old premier (march band) snaredrum...

tape the snares at the bottom w/ a single piece of tape... will get you that gated sound naturaly...

bottom mic is indeed, almost mandatory...

wallet, hamster, guinea pig, pigeon... put whatever works on top...
make up pads or TP work for me.

happy huntin'


Old 23rd March 2005
  #19
JTR
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~
did someone mention the snare ought to be wooden yet?

wallet, hamster, guinea pig, pigeon... put whatever works on top...
make up pads or TP work for me.

MUST be wallet; leather, heavy and fat, trucker model with chain still attached to drummer's pants.

Hamsters, etc. only good for one take

And now over to our sponsors: PETA heh
Old 24th March 2005
  #20
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTR
Too late L, I already gave 'em the gold snare sound for free...
give 'em a taste for free, and they'll be back for more.
They're mine now
No they aren't, gold ain't exactly Platinum!
Old 25th March 2005
  #21
Gear maniac
 

jeez, loudist, a bit generous there

is that platinum?

here's some tin for you for free (as used on most modern platinum)

get a sound editor

rip the snare off your favourite record

load it into sound replacer

hey presto

look ma, no hands

ps i'd rather take audio tips from snoopy at $50/hr

now there's a dog who gives sound advice
Old 25th March 2005
  #22
Gear Addict
 
macle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loudist
Heheh... Maybe a nobody to you, and it will remain that way.

I gave the best advice on this thread, bar none.


Which 70's snare sound?
Aerosmith?
ZZ Top?
Steely Dan?
Carpenters?
Jethro Tull?
KC?
Village people?
James Taylor?
Fleetwood Mac?
Eagles?
Led Zep?
Bob Marley?
Tangerine Dream?
Can?
Pink Floyd?
Bee Gees?
Kraftwerk?
Devo?
Nashville?
LA?
New York?
London?
Germany?
Europe?
Austrailia?
New Zeland?
Bernard Purdy?
Steve Gadd?
Russ Kunkle?
Tris Imboden?
Bill Bruford?
Benny Benjamin?
Stuart Copeland?
Ringo?
Rock?
R&B?
Adult Contemporary?
Punk?
Aggressive Rock?
Jazz Rock?
Reggae?


Also, which album and song?

The best answer is still: get out there and wrench on the tuning lugs, the knobs on the console, the mic(s), the gaffers tape.
Then hopefully you have a drummer that has 'the stroke', because thats over 50% of the sound.

The original poster, in his original question, said specifically:

"I really like the snare sounds on the records of Iggy pop, David Bowie or La Peste from the late 70s and early 80s."

If you don't know the specific answer, or don't want to share it, why are you here?

There are people here, like Richard Dodd and William Wittmann, for example, who are not only famously successful and talented, but extremely forthcoming with how they do things, they give actual answers with actual specifics, and on top of that, they are extremely kind.
Old 25th March 2005
  #23
Gear maniac
 

macle wrote:

"they are extremely kind."

these guys have worked extremely hard to get their reputation

there's no need to ruin it for them
Old 25th March 2005
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman
Kinda reminds me of the Monty Python skit 'Can I buy an Argument'??



Fleaman
or "how to irritate people"
LOL
Old 25th March 2005
  #25
I'm not here to piss people off anyway
some of us have long toes
and good snare sounds
(or one of the two at least) heh
that was another joke
phew
Old 25th March 2005
  #26
Gear Guru
I'll take a pass on the pissing contest and go to the drum sound.
The element no one has mentioned yet is that it was common to have VERY dead, small drum booths with carpeted walls. It may or may not be necessary that the carpet smells permanently of pot.
Old 25th March 2005
  #27
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Internet forums like this one are free. Advise is free and to taken for what it's worth.

Unfortunately and of course imvho, internet forums like these from time to time also attract people who for what ever reason think they need to make controversial comments.

Usually it starts innocent, sometimes even with valuable points .... but then others come along and for some reason think they need to participate by making even more controversial comments and then things start going out of hand.

Either way, right or wrong, at some point moderation needs to step in. Again, imvho of course. Some may agree, others don't. Point is this, in the end we try to create a positive vibe and a knowledge sharing spirit round here. For free btw.

For your info : anything irrelevant to the original subject is going to be deleted. Both in the past and the future.

Thanks.


Now back on topic please.
Old 26th March 2005
  #28
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

apparently impossible to stay on topic.
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