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Avalon 747
Old 27th January 2003
  #1
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doug_hti's Avatar
 

Avalon 747

What are people's thoughts on this that have used it or talked to people that have extensively used this.
My intentions with it would be to use it on incoming synths and to use it across the mix buss more as an limiter than comp.

I generally am really pleased with Avalon EQ. It's the 747 compressor I'm concerned with....but, is the comp going to be worse, as good, or better than plugin comps.
And in other words, will it be worse to the 747 through the mix bus, obviously going through the AD/DA on a 192i/o. Or are waves mastering plugins better?

I hesitate buying plugins, because I would rather have something that I can keep and use for 30 yrs, than 3yrs. And over time, it would be taken off of the mix bus, as I move on to other things to properly replace it....

thanks
Old 27th January 2003
  #2
TML
Lives for gear
 

I love Avalon eq. I've never heard ANY pluggin's that sound as good as the real thing. At best there are a couple of decent ones that can get things done. I've never heard the 747. My guess is once you figure out how to glue a mix together with the comp section...the eq will be killer on the 2 bus. About the 2 bus summing...kinda funny...the other day I started mixing from my mix plus into my D8B without summing all the drums to 2 stereo tracks into the D8B. The drums were fatter.....go figure.
Tim
Old 27th January 2003
  #3
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

I'm staring a 737 in the face right now.

I am enclined to agree with people here that it's not 'exciting'. But its got a good amp, the compressor has its own thing going on which is a bit too smooth sounding for a lot of people, the eq is 'sweet', but not clinical.

This box records things 'nicely'. It has a lot of 'air'. The high eq is pretty cool.

Anything put through the DI always sounds meatier.

I would not call this box 'versatile' though. It has it's own thing. TRY before you BUY.
Old 27th January 2003
  #4
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by BevvyB
I'm staring a 737 in the face right now.

I am enclined to agree with people here that it's not 'exciting'. But its got a good amp, the compressor has its own thing going on which is a bit too smooth sounding for a lot of people, the eq is 'sweet', but not clinical.

This box records things 'nicely'. It has a lot of 'air'. The high eq is pretty cool.

Anything put through the DI always sounds meatier.

I would not call this box 'versatile' though. It has it's own thing. TRY before you BUY.
The 737 sounds different than the 747 to me. More definition or something. I should rent a 747 and A/B it throughly to my 737's...
Old 27th January 2003
  #5
Quote:
Originally posted by BevvyB
I'm staring a 737 in the face right now.

I am enclined to agree with people here that it's not 'exciting'. But its got a good amp, the compressor has its own thing going on which is a bit too smooth sounding for a lot of people, the eq is 'sweet', but not clinical.

This box records things 'nicely'. It has a lot of 'air'. The high eq is pretty cool.

Anything put through the DI always sounds meatier.

I would not call this box 'versatile' though. It has it's own thing. TRY before you BUY.
Hey Bev,

I think the guy asked about a 747 not a 737.

Maybe somone slipped you some coffee during your "tea time" today?heh
Old 28th January 2003
  #6
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kosi's Avatar
The Avalon EQ in the 747 is a real monster. Why don't the Manleys build it as a single box ? I would buy it in an instant.

The Compressor is not interesting at all, even though he has an integrated sidechain, which I normally like. I squeezed it for hours and almost never got pleasing resultsdfegad

And yes, I would prefer always a good sounding outboard EQ and take the disadvantages of an ADDA conversion than a Plugin . You loose dimensionality, but you gain magic.

kosi
Old 28th January 2003
  #7
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

thrill -

I've given UP tea and coffee!!!

That's what it was...only been a week:eek:
Old 28th January 2003
  #8
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Yeah, I have a 737 now that I use quite often and I love the EQ..
I also use the compressor sometimes only for some soft limiting...so that was sort of my question, is the the 747 worth it over the mix buss as a LIMITER if I just tickle it a bit to control some of the transients and then I would finish it off with Maxim or Finalizer (which I really can't do too much with at all before it gets nasty).
If the 747 is capable of sounding good (even going through the ADDA) in comparision to a linear phase C4, EQ, and L2, then it seems like the 747 at street price would be an excellent value.
Old 28th January 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
I really think you can't go wrong with a 747. For me the eq is alone is better sounding than anything you can get for under 2K. Don't foget you can use the 6 graphic plus the two sweepable side chains as eq's with the side chain turned off so it is more versitle than it appears. The compressor is sweet and pretty sounding but not going to give you the in your face SSL kinda stuff but for all you get it is a heck of a bargain. You probably wouldn't want to take off more than 1 or 2db on a mix with it. The thing I like about it is just running the signal through it and adding a small amount of eq gives you a euphoric sence that certain higher end gear gives you. Running the tubes in and out can really make a nice difference on a mix, the tubes are less obviouse on single non stereo instruments but sound nice on piano synths.
Old 28th January 2003
  #10
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six_wax's Avatar
 

curious to hear more opinions on this box...

...from people who actually own and use them.
Old 28th January 2003
  #11
Gear Nut
 
20to20's Avatar
 

I use my Finalizer+ as an analog loop into the FATSO,
then to the 747, and then back into the Fin...

On mixdown I'll often use the FATSO for Bus Comp (or not),
but almost always for Tranny & some Warmth...

I'll then use the 747 mainly for its simple, elegant-yet-powerful
6-band Graphic EQ...and rarely for its Comp (in mixdown)...

However, sometimes the Internal Sidechain/Comp thang is just the ticket...

And likewise, patching the GEQ before the Comp can do wonders...

Back into the Finalizer for its Normalizer (usually w/soft clip)
& excellent Metering to hit 'Zero' going S/PDIF into the Masterlink...

I may adjust Stereo Width or maybe use the DRG
in the Finalizer, but rarely use its EQ or Multi-Band Comp...

For overdub tracking, I'll also use the Fin/FATSO/747 combo;
taking full advantage of any/all of the various elements to
get the track where I want it before printing to MX-2424...

Overall, the 747 is very flexible & powerful,
and don't forget its 'twin topology' layout; SS or Tube...

I just never had much success using its
Comp section 'regularly' on the 2-mix...
Old 28th January 2003
  #12
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Screws's Avatar
 

The 747 is extremely useful. EQ is wonderful sounding, tube circuit is very nice on mix, drum buss, some vocals, some basses.

Compressor is idiosyncratic - that's not to say it isn't useful, I use it every session on something, most often on the mix. But I don't like it to do severe stomping, it's much too noticable. 1 or 2 db max, use the sidechains to squeeze certain stuff and bring out certain stuff. Also nice to track vocals, synths or bass. Fletcher says he loves to use it on drum 2 buss.

If you want to stomp get the Fatso Jr. Great stomp box for the mix. The Alan Smart gets rave reviews on limiting the mix with an attitude as well.

I do agree that the EQ alone was worth what I paid for it ($1450 on ebay) and has changed the quality of my mixes drastically.
Old 28th January 2003
  #13
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
I have found the 747 to be a remarkably powerful and useful tool... but am very cautious in how I use that tool. Like good 'smack'... it's very easy to overuse the box and get yourself into some serious trouble.

I have found the front panel 'side chain' capability a wonderful aspect to the tool... I have found the 6 band graphic EQ not only powerful, but exceptionally musical... but like I said earlier... you can dig yourself into a pretty big hole pretty quickly if you're not careful with all that power.

Best of luck.
Old 28th January 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
QUOTE Fletcher
"but like I said earlier... you can dig yourself into a pretty big hole pretty quickly if you're not careful with all that power."

I know that hole very well.
Old 29th January 2003
  #15
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studjo's Avatar
 

I just mixed a project with an Avalon 747 across the mixbus. It's been a pleasure to tweak those big knobs.
I have this unit for over a year now and I think I'm beginning to understand what you can achieve with it. It's tough to learn this thing, but today was a good day (just a touch of comp - a little sheen on top and a touch of boost in the low lows )

Jo
Old 29th January 2003
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

I own a 747 and use it mainly as a master insert for inside protools mixes, going into the 747 into an Apogee AD8000 SE

TSP :
very useful for warming DAW mixes
EQ :
Great for DAW mixes !!!
I mostly love the air band for opening mixes without making them harsh and the 2k slider for that -in your face- sound.
Both results you can`t get with plug ins.

Compressor :
Really hard to adjust, as even the smallest move can change the sound a lot. I don`t like it as a mix bus compressor but with a sidechain boost around 10k it`s a great mix de-esser.

Overall my mixes improved mixing through the Avalon back into the Apogee with softlimit. I think it`s really important to start mixing with the 747 already inserted for the eq and the tsp to have the most effect.
I used it once on an accoustic guit. and on a backing vocals bus and it sounded great there.
There too, the air band worked great and opened the signal no other plug in could do !!

Hope this helps
Old 31st January 2003
  #17
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Renie's Avatar
 

So if it's basically the EQ that gives the 747 it's appeal what other stereo EQ's
in the same price range compare?


cheers
Old 31st January 2003
  #18
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
So if it's basically the EQ that gives the 747 it's appeal what other stereo EQ's
in the same price range compare?


cheers
Hi Renie,

The answer is probably none.

Avalon sent me a unit when they first came out(over two years ago) to try out and see if i liked it.

I actually thought it was ok, it just didn't make me jump or nothing. It works great on loops(being able to tune into the sidechain is cool. This helps avoid phasing problems when freq. splitting loops), but for what it was intended for(Mixbuss,Drumsubmix) i thought it was marginal at best.

The comp was practically useless(that goes for all of the avalon comps-2044 and 737).

I think a graphic EQ is useful(ie API560).

In the end I thought it was ok, but I couldn't justify keeping it my rack so i sent it back.
Old 31st January 2003
  #19
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Renie's Avatar
 

so thrill, are you saying that the 747 is your fave stereo EQ in that price range? even though you don't like it a lot...
what stereo EQ's do you prefer, regardless of cost? for mix bus duties mainly but also other odd jobs around the house..


big cheerz
Old 31st January 2003
  #20
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six_wax's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
what stereo EQ's do you prefer, regardless of cost? for mix bus duties mainly but also other odd jobs around the house..
Same question for mix bus compressor: if not a 747, what then?

Warming & analogizing DAW groups and mixes is key for me...

Thanks for the suggestions.
Old 31st January 2003
  #21
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
so thrill, are you saying that the 747 is your fave stereo EQ in that price range? even though you don't like it a lot...
what stereo EQ's do you prefer, regardless of cost? for mix bus duties mainly but also other odd jobs around the house..


big cheerz

Hey Renie.

Favorite stereo EQ in this price range? For the mix buss or general purpose?


If i am mixing digital-Manley Massive Passive and Summit EQP-200

If I am mixing on an analog console-GML 8200 or a pair of Pultecs. I've also used a Avalon AD2055 EQ and a Sontec.

Best general purpose EQ-GML 8200.

I am looking foward to trying the new CraneSong IBIS EQ.

At a lower price? Hmmm....

I think the Speck EQ's were actually nice. They weren't as open as the GML (I probably wouldn't use it on the mixbuss), but they were pretty useful.

Also Klark and Techinc makes a parametric that is useful.

EQ's are tricky. They each impart their own character. When mixing I am usually using more than one at a time on single tracks, like when mixing vocals(EQ right after the D/A-comp-another EQ after). I've never found one EQ that covers all the bases. That's one reason its good to have various flavors(like compressors). Colored,non-colored,parametric,graphics,shelving, they all get used in the mixes.
Old 31st January 2003
  #22
Quote:
Originally posted by six_wax
Same question for mix bus compressor: if not a 747, what then?

Warming & analogizing DAW groups and mixes is key for me...

Thanks for the suggestions.

Six Wax,

Warming huh? That is such a subjective term. My favorite warming device is a great half inch or 1 inch. No compressor can give you that.

I use mixbuss compression to bring the tracks into one "room" and to impart a little character.

In the 747 price range, the best comp looks to be right now a API 2500 or a Alan Smart C1(stereo not dual mono). Now i haven't used it yet(API 2500) and I normally don't like recommending something I haven't personally tried.

But I am saving up some pennies to try one. If it is as cool as they say, than I shall have no problems singing its praises.

If not well...heh
Old 31st January 2003
  #23
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thanks thrillfactor. I was prolly a bit too careless with my terms.

fwiw-- many of us DAW heads have a slightly different notion of 'warming'. Anything that ameliorates the cold sterility and precision of pure digital is 'warm' by comparison.

[ There are analogies one could make to my dating history, but that's another thread entirely... ]

I too use mix bus compression for 'glue' and 'cohesiveness' so I'm looking for something that fills that role, and can impart some character and maybe a little 'warmth' without being too colored to be *versatile* and useful on groups as well.

That said, any recs?
Old 31st January 2003
  #24
Quote:
Originally posted by six_wax
thanks thrillfactor. I was prolly a bit too careless with my terms.

fwiw-- many of us DAW heads have a slightly different notion of 'warming'. Anything that ameliorates the cold sterility and precision of pure digital is 'warm' by comparison.

[ There are analogies one could make to my dating history, but that's another thread entirely... ]

I too use mix bus compression for 'glue' and 'cohesiveness' so I'm looking for something that fills that role, and can impart some character and maybe a little 'warmth' without being too colored to be *versatile* and useful on groups as well.

That said, any recs?
Ok Six Wax I got the idea.

I got one word for you...

Neve.

Neve 33609(the original one's though not the new J's).

Its one of my favorites on the mix,drumsub and sometimes background vocals.

Its not cheap though, we are talking $4500 and up!!!

I would have suggested the Vari-Mu but it imparts a lot of character and I don't feel its as versatile, but it could also be used in this fashion.

I hope this answers your question some.
Old 31st January 2003
  #25
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oboy.

anything closer to the Avalon in price?

[ six_wax slinks back towards 'Between a Rock and a Hard Disk Place' ... ]
Old 31st January 2003
  #26
Gear Nut
 
20to20's Avatar
 

F A T S O...

Who doesn't like their FATSO...?
Old 31st January 2003
  #27
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studjo's Avatar
 

For a useful mixbus comp you could try 2 Dakings
Although I have to say that my 747 works nice for me.
If you need some VCA power I'd go with an Alan Smart. I own the C2 which some people don't like as much as an C1 but I'm very very happy with it.

Jo
Old 2nd February 2003
  #28
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StuartMac's Avatar
 

I'm really enjoying the Buzz SOC1.1 on the mixbuss these days. I guess this is VERY subjective!
Old 2nd February 2003
  #29
Moderator emeritus
 

Quote:
Originally posted by 20to20
F A T S O...

Who doesn't like their FATSO...?
Here's another question - do those of you who use lots of class A and tube gear, and lots of gear with transformers find the Fatso to be that useful? You know - you could use the Fatso to emulate an 1176 with transformers, or you could just use an 1176...
Old 2nd February 2003
  #30
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

I use an 1176 when I need one and use the Fatso for adding some subtle harmonic distortion and transient smoothing à la analog tape. I rarely use the compressor in the Fatso when tracking as I have a good assortment of comps in the rack.
I do use the "spank" preset from time to time when mixing for musically mutilating some tracks, lots of fun!

All in all, a great unit when recording to a DAW with tape nowhere in sight...
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