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Talk to me about word clock Mixers (Digital)
Old 25th January 2003
  #1
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Saucyjack's Avatar
 

Talk to me about word clock

After dumping a bunch of money in pres,comps and mics,I'm considering getting the Lucid Word clock(?Genx?) in an effort to improve the sound of my Yamaha AW4416.The Yamaha's convertors don't sound bad to my ears but then again I've never really compared them to higher end units.

The Lucid runs about $400 so I'm thinking it might be worth a shot.I've read a better word clock(particularly on the Yamaha digital stuff)can clarify the low end and improve Stereo imaging.FWIW I don't really use much other interconnected digital equipment but do use outboard analog quite a bit.

I realize it'somewhat like trying to turn chicken **** into salad but I 'll pay $400 if it makes a sonic difference.

Any thoughts?
Old 25th January 2003
  #2
Jax
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Try it and if you like the difference you hear enough, don't return the Lucid box to guitar center (or wherever, I don't mean any offense). You'll probably hear an improvement. Whether or not it's significant enough is your call.
Old 25th January 2003
  #3
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Yep,
I think that's what I'm a gonna do....talked to Samara at Mercenary,she seemed to think it would make a noticable difference on stuff that was tracked with a new word clock and less of improvement on tracks that have already been recorded.

Sound right?
Old 25th January 2003
  #4
Jax
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Samara tells the truth.

Have fun!
Old 25th January 2003
  #5
Re: Talk to me about word clock

Quote:
Originally posted by Saucyjack
After dumping a bunch of money in pres,comps and mics,I'm considering getting the Lucid Word clock(?Genx?) in an effort to improve the sound of my Yamaha AW4416.The Yamaha's convertors don't sound bad to my ears but then again I've never really compared them to higher end units.

The Lucid runs about $400 so I'm thinking it might be worth a shot.I've read a better word clock(particularly on the Yamaha digital stuff)can clarify the low end and improve Stereo imaging.FWIW I don't really use much other interconnected digital equipment but do use outboard analog quite a bit.

I realize it'somewhat like trying to turn chicken **** into salad but I 'll pay $400 if it makes a sonic difference.

Any thoughts?
The Aardvarc clock did wonders on an 02R I worked on years ago.

To my ears its the best outboard clock. I think you can find one used if you look around for about the double the price of the Lucid.
Old 25th January 2003
  #6
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Saucyjack's Avatar
 

Thanks thrill,
What kind of difference did you notice with the better clock?
Old 26th January 2003
  #7
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Re: Re: Talk to me about word clock

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
The Aardvarc clock did wonders on an 02R I worked on years ago.

To my ears its the best outboard clock. I think you can find one used if you look around for about the double the price of the Lucid.
c'mon, are you suggesting one can hear the difference between different outboard wordclock generators!!!!!!!.....isn't this descending into the realms of "this hard drive sounds better than that hard drive"?



....(no offence meant, if taken )
Old 26th January 2003
  #8
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i meant hearing the difference between 2 different high quality outboard wordclock generators.....i feel fairly sure the difference is at most, miniscule, and much less then different convertors....i mean one is only supplying a clock, while a convertor is doing WAY more......i could be wrong, though....wouldn't be the first time....

Old 26th January 2003
  #9
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you may be right....i mean, what else are you paying xtra for?


all i know is, it fits in between "jitter" and "dither" on my list of "things to worry about in the morning" (just after "colour of socks")
Old 26th January 2003
  #10
I think you guys are right!!
And Jazzius, that's an awsome avatar you have there
Old 26th January 2003
  #11
Re: Re: Re: Talk to me about word clock

Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
c'mon, are you suggesting one can hear the difference between different outboard wordclock generators!!!!!!!.....isn't this descending into the realms of "this hard drive sounds better than that hard drive"?



....(no offence meant, if taken )
Hey Jazzius,

No offense taken.

And yeah I can hear the difference. It maybe small, but for me its the little things when you add them up that contribute to my vision of sound.

Different outboard clocks actually make the jitter worse. But sometimes its the "imperfect" jitter that sounds more musical. Weird I know but true.
Old 26th January 2003
  #12
Quote:
Originally posted by Saucyjack
Thanks thrill,
What kind of difference did you notice with the better clock?
It made the whole image tighter and clearer(especially in the highs). It sounded like a veil was lifted.
Old 26th January 2003
  #13
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

The Lucid and Arrydvark clocks sound distinctly diffrent to my ears, no nessicarily beter/worse, but diffrent.

As far as improvement, expect smoother highs, tighter lows, wider pans, and an all over happy feeling, seriously, the 1st thing I noticed was that the mixing process just "felt" better.... howaa that for subjective?
Old 26th January 2003
  #14
Rab
KMR Audio
 
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Hey Jazzius

FWIW I've had a fair amount of experience putting in Pro Tools rigs and I believe anyone with a DAW should take word clock seriously. In pre-HD days, for guys who couldn't afford AD8000's or Prisms, clocking 888/24's from an external source (usually an Aardsync or Rosendahl Nanosync) would always make a noticeable difference to the coherence of the sound - kind of like wiping the dust off your mirror... everything seemed OK until you realised that it wasn't! I think the difference is most noticeable in high frequencies, which particularly affects stereo imaging. It's really important to appreciate how your clock is working and to slave everything from the best source you have in your system, otherwise you're throwing away potential quality. There's a "Guide to Digital Audio" PDF you can download from

http://www.apogeedigital.com/tips_te...ips_other.html

which explains things in more detail. Hope that helps!
Old 26th January 2003
  #15
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I'm totally willing to accept that it makes a difference.......i just question whether you hear a difference, or whether you think you hear a difference.....

.......the power of suggestion can be extraordinarily strong (this has been scientifically proven time and again)......

.......you unplug your old clock, you plug your new clock in (for which you payed hundreds of hard earned $$$), and you WANT to hear a difference.......i'm not trying to say you're stupid or amateur or anything.....i've experienced it many times myself.....i'll tweak a plug-in...."ahhhh....that's better "..........only to notice moments later that the plugin was in bypass ........just playing devils avocado!
Old 26th January 2003
  #16
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mdbeh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
.......the power of suggestion can be extraordinarily strong (this has been scientifically proven time and again)......
Sure, but that's true for any piece of gear. If you arbitrarily decide beforehand that something "shouldn't" matter, unlike some other part of the chain, you're just compounding the problem.
Old 26th January 2003
  #17
Rab
KMR Audio
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
I'm totally willing to accept that it makes a difference.......i just question whether you hear a difference, or whether you think you hear a difference.....
Yes... it makes a difference. Bear in mind that adding a better clock source to monitor back already recorded material won't change much as any distortion has already been tracked. Also, the bigger and more complex the session, the more you will hear the benefit as the problem is cumulative as you add tracks.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think swapping your clock source will take you to a higher plane of sexual fulfillment or anything. It's just one of those "under the bonnet" things you want to know is sorted. Of course, if I had a spare £1k lying around I'd rather get a decent mic-pre!
Old 26th January 2003
  #18
Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
[B]I'm totally willing to accept that it makes a difference.......i just question whether you hear a difference, or whether you think you hear a difference.....
/B]
Hey Jazzius I know I can hear a difference!!!

If I couldn't than I would probably retire and do something else!!!

But that's why i get hired...

cause not only do I hear it, but I find a way to either fix it or use it!!!!


Peace.
Old 26th January 2003
  #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rab
Yes... it makes a difference. Bear in mind that adding a better clock source to monitor back already recorded material won't change much as any distortion has already been tracked. Also, the bigger and more complex the session, the more you will hear the benefit as the problem is cumulative as you add tracks.

I have to disagree here, I can definatly hear an improvement on playback, even if the colck was not used on recording, obioudly it is better to have it the whole way through, but a soild clock source will improve the sound of your DAW or in my case, your dig mixer. The very non scientific teast i did was to do a ruogh mix with the "BETTER" clock as master, and after I got to a happy place, switch clocks ( or do this in reverse order) I immeadiately wanted to be grabbing faders and eqs.. try htis,the mix wil totally change in pretty much every department. If you are switching between to high quality clocks the results should not be as pronounced, but form my DMX clock to the aarydsync was night and day, and I have no real beefs with the DMX clock.. ( well, before I did this..)
Old 26th January 2003
  #20
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I bet if i came round and switched your old clock back in, you wouldn't notice for months.........

.......seriously, though, i guess if you're working on audiophile material, it could be important, but the average Joe Blow won't run screaming from the room when he hears a song with a dodgy clock!......

.......i just trully believe what's important is which monkey is twisting the knobs, not which knobs are being twisted!rollz
Old 26th January 2003
  #21
Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
I bet if i came round and switched your old clock back in, you wouldn't notice for months.........

.......seriously, though, i guess if you're working on audiophile material, it could be important, but the average Joe Blow won't run screaming from the room when he hears a song with a dodgy clock!......

.......i just trully believe what's important is which monkey is twisting the knobs, not which knobs are being twisted!rollz
Hey Jazzius,

Next time you are in NYC you are on!!!

Hey if I guess it correctly can you give me a free ticket to Amsterdam?heh
Old 26th January 2003
  #22
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You're on, mate!
Old 26th January 2003
  #23
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

I am not trying to suggest I can "name " a clock source, but if you changed the clock in a room I regularily work in I would def notice. again, maybe not Lucid - Aarydvark, but def from DMX / USD - Ayrd/Lucid to me there is a big diffrence.
Old 26th January 2003
  #24
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alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Rab
I don't think swapping your clock source will take you to a higher plane of sexual fulfillment or anything.
i was about to go get one until i read this... now its just useless. it better make me cum harder dammit.
Old 26th January 2003
  #25
Gear Head
 
JoHoozaFats...'s Avatar
 

what if u had a decent clock (lucid) and an ok convertor (motu 1224) as opposed to no clock and a good convertor (apogee 2 ch.)?
Old 26th January 2003
  #26
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essentials

A good word clock does not have a 'sound' but allows your digital gear to function at it's highest level and be in synch with all your other digital gear. The difference is not only audible but visible in PT.
Apogee has just released a new clock called Big Ben. I have one on order and will report to the faithful as soon as I install it.
Meanwhile: word clock from Trac2 to aardvark wc distribution amp with matching cable lengths and video synch via Black Burst to AD8000 and keep the rest of the joint synched to word.
word,
chap
Old 27th January 2003
  #27
Rab
KMR Audio
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
what if u had a decent clock (lucid) and an ok convertor (motu 1224) as opposed to no clock and a good convertor (apogee 2 ch.)?
A big reason why the "good" convertor is good, is because it has a tight (low-jitter) clock source. The Lucid (or whatever) will make more of a difference to a run-of-the-mill convertor because it replaces the poor clock for a better one and hence allows the convertor stage to crunch the numbers more accurately. But you also have to consider the convertor circuit itself and the quality of the transformer/power supply in the unit... so i guess the short answer is get a "good convertor".

Is this starting to sound really anal? Don't make me do it...
Old 27th January 2003
  #28
TML
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How much of a difference will it make if I get...say a Genx clock for my Mix Plus/ D8B system. I already have the Apogee clock in the board. I'm in the mixing stage with a number of projects. All the tracking is complete. Thanks
Tim
Old 27th January 2003
  #29
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try it and see if it makes a diff for you.. Several gear pimping places have exellent return policies ( Fletcher's place is wel known for this, for example.)
Old 27th January 2003
  #30
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Kris's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by jazzius
I bet if i came round and switched your old clock back in, you wouldn't notice for months.........

.......seriously, though, i guess if you're working on audiophile material, it could be important, but the average Joe Blow won't run screaming from the room when he hears a song with a dodgy clock!......

.......i just trully believe what's important is which monkey is twisting the knobs, not which knobs are being twisted!rollz
dfegad Well this monkey suggests you simply try it out yourself... It is instantly apparent im my studio when you switch clocks (882|20 Digidesign clock vs. Apogee) And I would instantly notice if the clock was switched... it's THAT apparent to me...yes this suprised me at first too... And it is just as apparent on tracks that were recorded previously through the 882|20s.
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