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Mark Of The Unicorn Suck Audio Interfaces
Old 14th January 2003
  #1
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Mark Of The Unicorn Suck

Waiting

Waiting

WAITING

W A I T I N G

Does ANYONE have ANY inside info on when MOTU are going to release ANY drivers for OSX for its products????

What the hell are they playing at. They've had since September to write a few drivers that one person could have written in a month.

Grrrr

If they don't get their finger out, I'm going to leace this MOTU stuff. Does anyone know what else does something similar to the MOTU 2408MkIII???
Old 14th January 2003
  #2
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Currently the only audio box they have a driver for is the firewire one. Which is a new product.

Hmph.

Still not impressed.
Old 14th January 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Sorry to bust in on your tea party, but what I want MOTU to do right quick is finish development of and release their Firewire 2 audio interface (the evolution of the 896). With the new Firewire 2 Powerbook from Apple, that would make a nice little mobile rig.
Old 15th January 2003
  #4
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

------
From MOTU tech support:

OS X drivers for the PCI-324/424 based systems will be released shortly after the 896 drivers.

All OS X announcements and driver releases will be posted on www.motu.com
when made available.
-------

The 896 drivers were released end of december. Shouldn't be much longer then!! ()
Old 15th January 2003
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
ghoost's Avatar
 

and who's betting that MAC comes out with a new tower line that boots only OSX before MOTU has an OSX DP ready This is kicking my butt as I really need to update the ole box to a dual engine. An I figer any other week now they could appear ... within the next two or so months ... grggt grggt
Old 15th January 2003
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

so have all the plugins been updated as well? its kinda useless for the app to be OSX without any plugins. im hoping MOTU goes with audiounits because all these "shells" can be a pita.

i would like to see the OSX drivers for the PCI card however... so i can run FCP3 on OSX instead of OS9.
Old 15th January 2003
  #7
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally posted by ghoost
and who's betting that MAC comes out with a new tower line that boots only OSX before MOTU has an OSX DP ready.
Exactly. I need to buy a new Mac this year... will MOTU be ready?

Have you guys seen the new Logic 6 feature list that's been floating around the web? It's enuff to make even a MOTU diehard like myself think about jumping ship.

Sure hope those guys get their act together soon cuz I LOVE DP!!!
Old 15th January 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Same -- need to get a new Mac for a new room, and I'm leaning against ProTools.

Figured it'd be some flavor of DP. Didn't want to go Logic, because I've always enjoyed indulging my bias towards DP and against Logic. Maybe it's time I re-think my "logic."
Old 16th January 2003
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Figured it'd be some flavor of DP. Didn't want to go Logic, because I've always enjoyed indulging my bias towards DP and against Logic.
Don't worry, Logic users won't hold that against you. We're a logical bunch.

I think you'd really enjoy the depth of the community using that product. There's an astounding amount of development always going on from both Emagic and the users (environment construction), and about as diverse a community (both culturally and stylistically) as you could imagine. Using Logic makes me feel like a world citizen.

I really like the passion and spunk of the developers, too. They're no-nonsense folks, and they get things done. I also like the fact that unlike MOTU, they don't squander tons of cash on buying up the back cover of every audio-related magazine in the world, nor are they in a constant wannabe Digidesign mode. Even though they're owned by Apple, they're still marching to the beat of their own drummer.

Lee Blaske
Old 16th January 2003
  #10
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Hi Lee, glad you could take a breather from DigiUserConference
Old 16th January 2003
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Hi Lee and thanks for the words of encouragement.

I must say that my leanings towards Logic are influenced by things that you have written about it.

Plus, I noticed this morning in an ad for the Vienna Strings Sample Library (orchestra cube, performance watchamacallit, etc., from Illio), that it will be for Gigastudio and the Logic Sampler ESX24 (or something like that) -- another reason for me to go Logic (don't have Gigastudio, would love to have great orchestral samples).

However, I feel clueless regarding hardware. If I were not using Logic with a TDM system (as I believe you are), I have no clue what hardware to buy for audio in/out. MOTU makes it easy, and their new 424-based stuff seems very tempting (2408MK3, etc.), but I am not sure where lemmings like me flock for Logic hardware (Apogee perhaps?).

-MattimattMatt
Old 16th January 2003
  #12
Gear Head
 

Hey folks, my .02 worth on MOTU and specifically their tech support. Admittedly I'm a bit brain dead when it comes to computers in general and daw's specifically, but I was shocked at how poor the after-sales support was from MOTU. I mostly wanted a system for recording audio, midi was not the main draw. I went with DP 2.7, a 2408 mkII and a USB Micro Express and I could not get timely support. It was not unusual to call product support 40, 50 times and still not get through. The times I emailed product support they took two or three days, if ever, to respond. After more frustration, I sold the 2408 at a loss and got a Mackie MDR recorder and was making music within minutes of opening the box. Gave up a lot of power, but have no regrets. I don't doubt Logic would have been a bear to learn and use, but I doubt the tech support could possibly be worse than the "support" from MOTU. I did not want to buy into the Pro Tools jaugernaut, I like to support the "other guy" and had heard good things about DP. I can't help but wonder if MOTU would be more successful and have more satisfied users if they scaled back the ad blitz and put more resources into hiring additional tech support folks. I remember reading that the number one reason for customers taking their business elsewhere is perceived indifference toward them. Would I buy from MOTU again? Probably not.
Old 16th January 2003
  #13
Here for the gear
 

MattiMattMatt,

There's a pretty huge bunch of hardware out there that can be used with Logic, including the MOTU stuff (obviously, you need the OSX drivers if you want to use OSX). Personally, in addition to my PT HD rig running Logic, I also have a small, portable rig with a Metric Halo Mobile i/o that I think sounds great (especially considering the price, the heavy duty construction, and feature set).

If you need more Logic encouragement, take a look at this news: http://www.emagic.de/english/news/20...ic6/index.html

This looks like everything folks have been begging for in Logic, plus a lot more.

BTW, for the record, I think DP does have some good points. Emagic, though, has really been keeping me happy. They are really on a roll these days, and I hope it never stops.

Lee Blaske
Old 16th January 2003
  #14
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Logic are pretty good at all this support stuff.

Also, some of my friends advise on various aspects of Logic, and pretty much all their input has resulted in positive changes for the software. They do listen.
Old 17th January 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 

Lee,

Thanks for your response.

The Metric Halo Mobile i/o always seems to get good reviews from people who use it, although I can't help thinking that it is made by a bunch of guys in their basement.

How is it with monitoring latency? The new stuff from MOTU has built-in "cue mix" which is supposed to improve things quite a bit; I wonder how that compares with the Mobile i/o.

Are you able to hook up a firewire drive to it to use as a record drive, or would that drive need to be connected directly to the computer (thinking of the new 17" Powerbook with only one Firewire "1" port out of the box).

The feature list for Logic does look great, and for what I do, I think it would be a great all-in-one environment.

I just don't have a sense of what Logic studios look like. I know what PT and DP studios look like, but what do Logic studios look like? What do Logic people who are not using PT prefer to use for non-mobile audio i/o? Do they all use that RME stuff?

Perhaps I might try something like:

a new powerbook + Logic with the MH Mobile i/o for mobile recording, and then plug the Mobile i/o into a Powermac running Logic and a DSP card or two (UAD, Powercore) for the room. That way, the Mobile i/o does double duty, and I suppose I could always upgrade the room to more robust I/O (e.g. ProTools) down the road.

Another thing I could probably do with this setup (if the Powerbook fan was too loud for this): I could run a long firewire cable from the Mobile I/O to the PowerMac, put the Mobile I/O in the tracking room, and control the computer remotely from the tracking room. That way, I could record in and from the tracking room into the Powermac running Logic with no one in the control room (e.g. if I wanted to record myself in the tracking room with no one else around).

On the other hand, I really like the MOTU hardware + software "integrated" solutions -- it seems, ironically, very Mac-like; however, the Logic features are drawing me towards it, and away from MOTU.

-MattiMattMatt
Old 18th January 2003
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by MattiMattMatt
Lee,

Thanks for your response.

The Metric Halo Mobile i/o always seems to get good reviews from people who use it, although I can't help thinking that it is made by a bunch of guys in their basement.

How is it with monitoring latency? The new stuff from MOTU has built-in "cue mix" which is supposed to improve things quite a bit; I wonder how that compares with the Mobile i/o.


The Mobile I/O is more than just an interface in the MOTU vein. It's CueMix equivalent is the MIO Console which contains a full I/O matrix to route anything anywhere, full control of the Inputs (inc. pre gain, phase, line gain, -10 or +4, etc..) and Outputs, and a Mix window which allows you to create numerous stereo mixes. The MIO's software control is the most complete interface management I have used. It's very good!


Are you able to hook up a firewire drive to it to use as a record drive, or would that drive need to be connected directly to the computer (thinking of the new 17" Powerbook with only one Firewire "1" port out of the box).

There were some issues with some early versions of the TiBook regarding Firewire buss power, but I'm 99.5% sure that, as of now,
you'll be fine to run a FW HD off the MIO FW ports.


a new powerbook + Logic with the MH Mobile i/o for mobile recording, and then plug the Mobile i/o into a Powermac running Logic and a DSP card or two (UAD, Powercore) for the room. That way, the Mobile i/o does double duty, and I suppose I could always upgrade the room to more robust I/O (e.g. ProTools) down the road.

This is basically what I do but with DP as my main DAW. I take it with me to studios too and mix to it @24/96Khz. Sonically, the MIO is better than 888's, IMO.


On the other hand, I really like the MOTU hardware + software "integrated" solutions -- it seems, ironically, very Mac-like; however, the Logic features are drawing me towards it, and away from MOTU.

-MattiMattMatt
Before I had the MIO I had a MOTU 2408mkII and 1224 running with DP. Believe it or not I actually feel more integrated with the MIO and DP than I did with MOTU's own hardware. I know guys who use Logic and MIO who feel the same.
You really should check it out!
Old 19th January 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Carl,

Thanks very much for the reply -- my interest in the Mobile I/O is definately "piqued" and I will check it out, and probably buy one.

There is also that new FireStation thing (presonus?) but I haven't heard the good buzz about it that the Mobile I/O seems to have generated.

It'd be nice to get a Firewire 2 version of the MIO -- surely they are working on one -- but who knows when it will come out, and the Firewire 1 version seems to have just about everything you need.

Perhaps a killer setup would be to use the MIO with a Trak2, which would add great mic pres and digital conversion to the stew. I don't have a Trak2, but I've always liked it from afar.

-MattiMattMatt.
Old 19th January 2003
  #18
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

hmmm

interesting

you see, im thinking about getting mobile

What's it's for is:

1. Songwriting anywhere (must be able to record a vocal and guitar)

2. Working on stuff which isn't that intensive (ie Working on a score on the road to picture via quicktime before I get into mixing)

3. Using for altiverb/softsynths when I'm home on my proper setup

My thoughts so far :

New 12" G4 Powerbook (I'm a gearslut)

Apogee Mini-Me (I will NEVER be recording more than 2 channels at a time on the road), and this thing is tiny

Running Logic Audio (my sequencer of choice)

With some kind of firewire drive OR internal drive - I don't intend to be away recording an entire albums worth of stuff

And I think it may be enough to simply monitor through the mac headphone socket.

Tell me some other ways I could do this. The reason the minime looks attractive is I can use it back home as well as on the road, and it's stereo and has compression built in

Sorry to hijack the thread, but it seems in the same area
Old 19th January 2003
  #19
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

What am I saying!!! lol

It's was my thread in the first place.

You see, haven't even noticed. Such is slutdom.
Old 19th January 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by MattiMattMatt
(snip)
There is also that new FireStation thing (presonus?) but I haven't heard the good buzz about it that the Mobile I/O seems to have generated.
Totally different leagues. The FireStation maxes out at 48Khz, you can't use ADAT and analogue I/O simultaneously and you'd be backing the mLAN protocol which means you'd be relying on other manufacturer's to "back it up". I've heard the FireStation against a MOTU 828 and the 828 seemed better sounding to me. I've heard the MIO against the 828 and the difference was vast, obviously in favour of the MIO.

Quote:

It'd be nice to get a Firewire 2 version of the MIO -- surely they are working on one -- but who knows when it will come out, and the Firewire 1 version seems to have just about everything you need.
I know what you're saying, but the MIO is actually one of a few products that makes full use of the FW1 400mps bandwidth, any limitation that is present is due to Apple's implementation of FW in the OS/firmware, not Metric Halo's. Regardless of this, I can tell you there are no drawbacks due to the FW buss with the MIO. You can run all the ins and outs (18 of them), while recording,
simultaneously with ease. It is more down to if your computer can handle it, specifically at 96Khz. The one place I'm certain FW2 will come into it's own, when Metric Halo sort it out (which BTW, I know they're doing), will be for "multiboxing" MIO's, which will allow 16 MIO's to be daisychained.

Quote:
Perhaps a killer setup would be to use the MIO with a Trak2, which would add great mic pres and digital conversion to the stew. I don't have a Trak2, but I've always liked it from afar.
I've never used the Trak2, but if it's anything like the other Apogee gear I've used, I'm sure it's very good.
However I don't think I'd buy the Trak2 solely for it's mic pre's and I honestly think you'd be struggling to hear much of a difference between the Trak2's A/D and the MIO's A/D convertors, and D/A too. I think it would be a matter of preference.
So, if it were me, rather than the MIO/Trak2 combo I'd personally look more towards a MIO/Prism MMA-4 or MIO/GML 8304, or maybe MIO/GR MP-2NV (depending on how you like your mic pre's flavoured) and let the MIO take care of A/D and concentrate more on the pre with the additional purchase/s.

You should also maybe consider the Apogee Mini-Me if you like the Trak2 and only need 2 I/O's. I can't help but look at the price of it compared to the MIO and what you get for your money though.
Old 19th January 2003
  #21
Gear Addict
 
kenn.michael's Avatar
 

I'd have to put my bid in for the MIO as well... Sure, it's bigger, but teamed with a Powerbook, you basically have a COMPLETE facility ready to deal with any recording or monitoring situation. And man.... the converters are AWESOME! I was even reading on the MIO list that a couple users prefer the MIO converters to those on the Apogee PSX-100!!!! The pres are great. The units are stackable. The +DSP unit has DSP onboard that will be used for future plugins designed by Metric Halo...

And it works great with Logic - in OS9 and OSX!
Old 20th January 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Carl,

Thanks again for the informative response!

1) Forget the Firestation -- point well taken!!!

2) The MIO sounds really great -- I did not realize that its converters were at that level, but certainly if they are, your suggestions make a lot of sense.

For me, the MIO makes more sense than the mini-me. I'd use my fancy mic pres in the studio (which are kind of bulky), and its onboard pres on the road, or eventually buy a lightweight, high-quality pre to bring with.

3) What is your experience with latency in monitoring -- how does it handle monitoring new tracks over a multitrack mix?

I would imagine that the horsepower lurking in the DSP version could help monitoring down the road.

Plus, I wonder if the DSP will only work on their own plug-ins, or something like AudioUnits.

Again, thanks for all the info.

Regards,

MattimattMatt
Old 20th January 2003
  #23
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by MattiMattMatt

3) What is your experience with latency in monitoring -- how does it handle monitoring new tracks over a multitrack mix?

I would imagine that the horsepower lurking in the DSP version could help monitoring down the road.

Plus, I wonder if the DSP will only work on their own plug-ins, or something like AudioUnits.
I'll answer them in order;

The input monitoring is one of the MIO's most valuable assets to me. As I mentioned in an earlier post, in the MIO Console you can set up several different mixes. Within each mix you get a channel for each input and channels for your DAW mixes. Also, your input faders have no bearing on what's being sent to your DAW (they're post) so your free to set up your cue mixes as you need them, with 2ms of latency(!). You have the capability of 4 seperate stereo cue mixes, 1 stereo/7 mono or any combo in between. Basically, monitoring is a breeze!

I've added a jpeg so you can see the mixer section in the MIO Console. As you will see, Mix 1&2 is visible and there are another 7 stereo mixes available. Don't forget, you can also sned 8 channels of ADAT out and use these for mixes too. I have a Motu 2408 connected to mine as a way of getting various FX units into the MIO mixer.

Both versions of the MIO (2882+DSP and 2882) have DSP processing for the monitoring already active, hence the above paragraph. What the +DSP version has is extra DSP power to run onboard plugins that are Metric Halo's own format, not AU's. The plugs that are already lined up are an updated/improved version of ChannelStrip, a multiband compressor, a multi-fx plugin and a reverb plugin. These can all be used on the front end (pre or post DAW send) for recording, or, either as inserts or on a buss whilst mixing/tracking. Obviously, ChannelStrip and the reverb plug will be VERY useful for tracking.
Attached Thumbnails
Mark Of The Unicorn Suck-miomixer.jpg  
Old 21st January 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Carl,

Thanks VERY much. This is very helpful (and persuasive!). The monitoring was my biggest concern.

Seems pretty-well designed and would fit in well with what I'm looking to do.

MUCHO GRACIAS!

Regards,

MattiMattMatt
Old 21st January 2003
  #25
Rab
KMR Audio
 
Rab's Avatar
 

In support of the guys being punched in the ring, and steering the thread back to the original point, it's interesting reading comments from the US guys... tech support for MOTU (via MusicTrack) in the UK is excellent - I can't believe BevvyB would argue with that.

I'm a die-hard Logic user, and with Apple's takeover this has to be the safest way to go for a solid platform in the future. Nonetheless, seems to me OSX has a way to go before it is a feasible platform for audio apps. OS9 does the job and supports everything NOW... at present, I just need something that will let me finish the job. In the meantime, I'm running a separate OSX drive which I'm building up with apps/plug-ins/drivers as they become available - when it offers everything OS9 does, I'll make the leap - although I don't expect this to happen for around 6 months. I don't give a monkey's about the OS, surely working apps are more important? Mind you, ProTools 6 will be hard to resist. The OSX-only boot macs have been put back (no real surprises there) - keep an eye on when Quark develop an OSX version, THEN start worrying...

Also, Mini-Me rocks... excellent mic pre's and limiter. I reckon with Logic and a 7200rpm firewire HD you'd have a totally feasible mobile rig.

That's my £0.002 worth...

Old 22nd January 2003
  #26
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by bombguy

--Erik
The quote says it all.

When will you learn? Everywhere you go you do the same thing, and make yourself look like what I suspect you are, a rather dimwitted, money/business motivated tit of a man with no understanding of creativity/art other than how to try to juice it.fuuck

We weren't talking about ChannelStrip, but you jump in and start laying into the company, their plugs, their hardware, their staff, their customers and, most stupidly, the intelligence of their customers who are potential customers of yours, who, yet again, you try to insult and isolate.
You have done this with most plugin companies, Waves (whose plugins piss all over yours, and lets face it, neither you or your company have the intelligence or creativity to come up with anything other than half assed "emulations", unlike Waves), UAD, Metric Halo, Line 6, McDSP, etc..

Regardless of the flaws in ChannelStrip, the EQ is superior to anything your company tries to put out, the compressor sometimes has it's place and at least has a vibe to it (I know what it can do and, again, none of your plugs achieve what ChannelStrip's compressor can, i.e. full on compression that you can hear) and the gate, well the gate is ****ed and shouldn't even be there. So what?

FWIW, IMO
1176- Absolutely vibeless, doesn't do a thing.
LA2A- As above, but worse.
660- WTF? Are you joking? Have you ever used one? If you haven't then I understand. If you have, I'd be concerned.
...I could go on...
Joe Meek EQ-
SansAmp- LOL, one full slot for this piece of ****.
Pultec EQ "Finally, a digital equalizer that looks, sounds, and behaves like a real analog EQ."- tut

The only half decent plug Bombfactory "make" is TelRay, which, let's face it, is NO Echofarm. The UAD version of the plugs you "emulate" are also superior to yours and even though these aren't anything like the real thing either, at least they have a vibe, unlike yours.

I actually now believe Erik doesn't exist, I think the whole "Erik" thing is an internet forum virus.
Take your junk mail some place else, asshole.fuuck
Old 22nd January 2003
  #27
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

well, i cant believe i agree with erik but channel strip fully blows donkey dicks. the stock motu stuff sounds as good if not better.
Old 22nd January 2003
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
well, i cant believe i agree with erik but channel strip fully blows donkey dicks. the stock motu stuff sounds as good if not better.
It's not his opinion on ChannelStrip that I dislike/disgree with either, it's his attitude. I wouldn't advise anyone to buy ChannelStrip as the gate doesn't work, the compressor is limited to high ratios and the EQ is nothing that you can't get from other parametric EQ's. However, I don't think there are many, if any, compressor and EQ plugins available that aren't a massive comprimise for the sake of convenience. The only plugin I have on my hard drives that I don't feel is a comprimise for outboard is Altiverb.
For dynamics in a DAW I never look further than the McDSP and Waves plugs because, IMO, there is nothing to better them in the DAW world (Sony EQ gets a look in too). Even if I did rate BF's plugs, which I genuinely don't apart from TelRay, I wouldn't buy them because Erik seems like a total asshole.

I like the notion of people being proud of their work and willing to talk about it, for example, it's cool that people who own and rave about Manley gear can talk to EveAnna here but her first posts weren't to target competetitors, it was to give information and partake in other discussions because she obviously knows what she's talking about and has her opinions.
Erik on the other hand seems to have no interest other than to be an asshole. Come to think of it, if my business was to look at code all day, I think I'd be pretty bitter. If you had any degree of creativity in audio, would you be content with only releasing software?? I wouldn't. Erik has found his little niche of badly emulating vintage hardware, it probably makes him a living at the moment, but it also makes him an unfulfilled pain in the ass.

If I'm wrong, where's the resume of past work? (And I don't mean Lenny Kravitz once used ProTools)
Old 22nd January 2003
  #29
Lives for gear
 
malice's Avatar
 

erik

Must say I totally agree with Carl on this one.
Erik started a thread a while back at PSW complaining about UAD-1, Waves, McDsp plugs for the only sake that all this companies were doing vintage emulating plugz.
The fact that he only post in forums to flame competitors (good or bad, that is not the question) is most disturbing.
I don't want to bring back the subject over the compared quality of WAVES/UAD-1/McDsp/BF again, that would be lame.
I don't know Metric Halo card, and I'm please with the Motu Gear I purshased so far.
But I do take this opportunity to express my reservations over Erik opinion, as I did see him mixing true informations with total BS to get his point over competitors wich I find highly dishonest.
I won't call him an asshole, as I don't know the guy personaly, but I will never take his affirmations for granted since I have been reading his posts carefully enough, sorry Erik.

malice
Old 22nd January 2003
  #30
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

I only said Mark Of The Unicorn suck.

And now everbody's grazed their knee.
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