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Mark Of The Unicorn Suck Audio Interfaces
Old 22nd January 2003
  #31
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malice's Avatar
 

mmh

Kent, you are right about a lot of things in general, and I wish to respect what make this forum different from, mmh, let's spit it : PSW
I promissed myself to behave so, I won't argue with Erik again.
See you in one week

Erik, re -read my post, I did say quite clearly that you are telling perfectly true facts among other things in your posts. And yes, you are right about the curve of the UAD-1 Pultec (I'm quiet an honest guy that don't take BS for granted, go figure). I did made measurements regarding that, and what you said about UAD pluggz inducing delay within the daw. Well, as I said, some of what you say is true and some of...

I won't argue with you here. Not the place, off topics ...
I expressed a feeling that I have about you, and that obviously some other members have and It might be stupid of me to bring it everytime I see one of your contribution. So, instead of starting a childish fight over the same subject ad nauseum, I'll simply ignore your posts for the reasons I explained above and at Fletcher's.

Regards

malice
Old 22nd January 2003
  #32
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Kent
Jeez guys, lay off of Erik on this one. The body of his text pertained to THIS exact thread (Metric Halo MIO / MOTU). He was then accused of (dare I say ‘attacked’) stuff that he wrote in other threads and now this thread is being taken on another tangent. It is not he who is diverting it.
No Kent, you're wrong, it was Erik who diverted this thread for his own agenda. Nobody was talking about plugins. I suggest you read posts more carefully before siding with somebody as irrelevant and tedious as Erik.

Quote:
Originally posted by Erik
Metric Halo plug-ins are bug-riddled and bugfixes aren't coming. The software company filed for bankruptcy and Sweetwater no longer carries their hardware products.

In response to user complaints that two out of the three sections of ChannelStrip didn't function correctly (along with a public admission of the error in a forum), Metric Halo instead released new VST versions... with the same bugs. I just had a client using the HD version in the studio here, and it still doesn't restore settings correctly when you save and re-load a session.
Here's a bit of background reading, which will also link other doors, if you want to check Erik's forum "history";
Erik On r.a.p

You mentioned Fletcher too, well, as you probably know, Fletcher too can have his moments but he's also got a good sense of humour and, most importantly, he knows what he's talking about and is a great source of knowledge and advice as well as someone you can have a conversation with. I've got a feeling Erik found his way here via Fletcher and his guest moderator status, kinda like a dog following his master (and it's one of those annoying dogs that tries to hump your leg while your talking to other guys).

I'm now finished on the Erik matter! It'd be better if he either went away or added something constructive to procedings without the BS self agenda.
Old 24th January 2003
  #33
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
I'm now finished on the Erik matter! It'd be better if he either went away or added something constructive to procedings without the BS self agenda.
Dream on, he doesn't know how to do that.
Old 24th January 2003
  #34
Gear Addict
 

Erik wrote:
"Metric Halo did have a good reputation for customer hand-holding. Then again, this is pretty important when you release products that don't work..."

Sorry to extend this any further, just felt it necessary to say that I bought my MIO nearly a year ago and it worked exactly as I hoped it would the day I took it home.
Old 24th January 2003
  #35
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by bombguy
T
Anyone care to explain this and let me know why anyone should support a company that continues to pull this sort of ****?

I've gotten to a point with this industry where I've lost all tolerance for this sort of false and misleading advertising.


--Erik
Dude, you make plug-ins for a system, that is made by a company who has made some of the worst sounding DAW software IMO.
Old 25th January 2003
  #36
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atticus's Avatar
Now I have never met Erik, and I have no opinion whatsoever on this personality (like the internet really allows you to see that anyway?) but I will say that I respect a man that not only is capable of making good recordings but also knows how to build the tools that can be used in those recordings. The list of people that can do that is far shorter then the list of those who can't.
Old 25th January 2003
  #37
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman
Dude, you make plug-ins for a system, that is made by a company who has made some of the worst sounding DAW software IMO.
yep, thats the pot calling the kettle black... making emulations that dont emulate... hmmm.
Old 25th January 2003
  #38
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A PLEASANT DIVERSION:

Leave it to Hencham, God bless him, to figure out a way to link this topic to dissing Disgidesign. It reminds me of the Kevin Bacon game --

Jill sucks BECAUSE:

She's friends with Alexis who likes Brittany Spears who appeared on stage with Ricki Martin whose record was produced in ProTools!



THE ISSUE AT HAND:

This began with my interest in the Mobile I/O.

Since I'm fairly reasonable, although not as reasonable as Lee Blaske, who is widely recognized as the most reasonable man in the free world, I recognize that staunch advocates and dedicated detractors accompany virtually every discussion of virtually every product.

That Lee Blaske, who is widely recognized as the most reasonable man in the free world, has good things to say about the Mobile I/O, is persuasive. And Carl's informed description is also genuinely helpful and persuasive.

ON THE OTHER HAND,

I have some reservations. I, myself, wrote before Erik's appearance in this thread:

"The Metric Halo Mobile i/o always seems to get good reviews from people who use it, although I can't help thinking that it is made by a bunch of guys in their basement. "

Now strictly speaking, I have nothing against basements. Douglas Fearn makes his preamps in his basement. However, the Metric Halo website, which looks like it was built by a 13 year old in an afternoon, gives me pause. Douglas Fearn's website, and everything else about him, is utterly professional and impressive, and although he sold only 12 preamps in his first year of business, I bought one with confidence.

Thus, to the extent that Erik's thoughts coincide with my suspicions, I take notice. And if the company is in trouble, and has failed to deliver on other products, that matters to me. However, I take Erik's and ALL comments with a grain of salt large enough to melt the average slug, with the exception of Lee Blaske, who is widely considered the most reasonable man in the free world. And certainly the features Carl describes are just what I am looking for.

Yesterday I received my monthly copy of "Electronic Musician." A review of the Mobile I/O concludes:

"Althought the Mobile I/O's analog output sounds great, its digital input can be undependable. The 2882 is easy to use, but only when it works as it should. It offers much more functionality than its price might suggest, but functionality doesn't mean much when your playback session comes to a grinding halt. As of this writing, the 2882 has some serious bugs, and until those bugs are squashed, it remains a work in progress."

Although I understand that reviewers are often less reliable than the products they review, to end a review in EM this way, and outline serious problems throughout (e.g. recording can randomly drop out until power is cycled) is a huge red flag. I cannot believe that the magazine would have published this unless it had at least some merit.

In my experience writing for MIX, I know that manufacturers go out of their way to make sure that review samples are in good shape, and are eager to troubleshoot problems that may arrise during the course of the review. Furthermore, as we all know and hate, reviews in these magazines tend to be ass-lickingly positive, which makes the occassional negative review subject to greater editorial scrutiny, and elevates its credibility.

Thus, until I could be assured that the issues raised by the magazine were resolved, I would not buy a Mobile I/O, as wonderful as it seems. In the meantime, I'll look for another solution (maybe MOTU hardware, although it somehow seems sacrilegious to me to use MOTU hardware with LOGIC software) and hope that the Moblie I/O gets its act together because if it worked as advertised, it happens to be just what I want.

Regards, Cheers, etc. etc.

-MattiMattMatt
Old 25th January 2003
  #39
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Kent, I really didn't intend to be heavy handed in my response to you, it was meant to be informative, not condescending. I still don't think it's a disagreement, I think I was stating a fact. If you don't recognise this, fair enough, it's no biggie.
Erik wasn't being informative, he was taking potshots at a competitor. He can't help himself, he's done exactly the same thing in the post after yours. Read it again, where's the information? Even after Erik used ChannelStrip to enter this thread for his token mud slinging it was me who informed what the problems with ChannelStrip are, not Erik, he would rather focus his attack on the company, their marketing and their users. He didn't "discuss" anything. If he does decide to contribute to this forum in the future, without his AGENDA jumping of the screen, hey, I won't jump on him, I don't bear any ill feeling. If he follows up a post of mine, or anyone else's, with his BS then he is fair game to be checked. I'm sure the majority of people who read and use this forum don't need/want Erik's type of "informative" contribution.

The other thing you wrote, about the justification of commenting on a company who manufacture both software and hardware, I agree with. I don't agree with the feeling towards one product influencing comments on an unrelated product by the same company. It's kinda like judging a Marshall 100W Plexi on the basis of a Marshall Shredmaster stomp box. And the company history hasn't got a lot to do with anything either. Every company has some issues along the line, but surely it's more about the specific product attributes(?). How many people don't buy a Neumann mic because of their history with the **** party?

FWIW, I've never read a post by Slipperman that has tried to insult my intelligence. He's also never jumped in on a thread I've been involved in and tried to direct it to feed his own ego.
Old 25th January 2003
  #40
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Messiah's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by MattiMattMatt
Yesterday I received my monthly copy of "Electronic Musician." A review of the Mobile I/O concludes:

"Althought the Mobile I/O's analog output sounds great, its digital input can be undependable. The 2882 is easy to use, but only when it works as it should. It offers much more functionality than its price might suggest, but functionality doesn't mean much when your playback session comes to a grinding halt. As of this writing, the 2882 has some serious bugs, and until those bugs are squashed, it remains a work in progress."

Although I understand that reviewers are often less reliable than the products they review, to end a review in EM this way, and outline serious problems throughout (e.g. recording can randomly drop out until power is cycled) is a huge red flag. I cannot believe that the magazine would have published this unless it had at least some merit.

Furthermore, as we all know and hate, reviews in these magazines tend to be ass-lickingly positive, which makes the occassional negative review subject to greater editorial scrutiny, and elevates its credibility.
Hi Matt,

Read your last paragraph quoted above, now flick through your issue of Electronic Musician, think "ass-lickingly positive" and count the MOTU adverts in the issue, I haven't seen it, I don't get the mag, but I bet there's some full page MOTU ads going on. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from. Actually, let me know, out of interest!

Check the Sound On Sound review, check the Audio Media review. Being a user of the Mobile I/O who has $0 to gain from your purchasing an interface, I can tell you that these are reviews are in keeping with my experience of the MIO. My playback has never come to a grinding halt, I've never had any issue with digital I/O. I have heard of some weirdness with the MIO and early blackface ADAT's, but I've never had any problems with the ADAT I/O on the MIO and I've used it a lot with various other units.

The only issue I've found with the MIO is that the mic pre's can be noisy at high gain settings, but I mainly use outboard pre's anyway so it's never been an issue to me. I've used the internal pre's a few times though for tracking and, although they're obviously not going to tempt Neve users to switch, they are well passable on anything where you don't need the gain to be full on.

I think it's unrealistic to expect 8 great mic pre's out of any interface like this in this price range, but the MOTU 896 and 828 pre's are worse. For the quality of A/D and D/A of the MIO, the most comparable MOTU product is the 1296, IMO (I haven't heard the new HD192). The 896 isn't in the same ballpark. The build quality of the MIO is tank-like too, every MOTU unit seems flimsy to me.

Something else to consider too, is that Metric Halo offer a no quibble money back guarantee (well, they did when I bought mine, I'm sure they still do), so you've got nothing to lose in checking it out.

At the end of the day you should go with a unit that will do what you require.
Just remember, if you go with a MOTU, to check "Electronic Musician" in the "where did you hear about this product" section on the registration card.

Also remember what the subject of this thread is.
Old 25th January 2003
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Carl,

Maybe when it gets time to buy, I'll give the Metric Halo guys a call and ask them about the review, and what they have done to correct bugs. If their response seems reasonable, maybe I'll ask for a trial period, to see if the thing works for me, with the understanding that I can return it if it doesn't.

What I'm concerned about most of all is if the interface stops recording in the middle of a crucial performance. In some circumstances, that could be really really bad.

While I understand your point about the topic of this thread, one of Erik's points has statistical relevency -- that MOTU's numbers are far higher than Metric Halo's. For instance, if Metric Halo sells 100 Mobile I/Os, and 5% don't work, that's 5 unhappy users, who won't make a whole lot of noise. If MOTU sells 100,000 units, and 5% don't work, that's 5,000 unhappy users who will make a lot of noise. I remember reading that ebay, for instance, claimed that only some extremely tiny percentage of its online auctions were poisoned by fraud (like, .00000 somthing percent). However, given how many auctions the site hosts, it turns out that even that small percentage translated into hundreds of thousands of individuals getting burned!

My point is that threads with titles like this are far more common with high-volume companies just as a matter of statistics. However, that is not to say that MOTU doesn't, indeed, suck. As they say, even paranoids have true enemies.

And there is a lot to be said for a smaller company that is trying hard to satisfy its customers. I remember when that could be said of MOTU. Somewhere in my closet, I still have a Jambox+ which was made by MOTU before it was MOTU, had more bugs than a pile of **** on a warm summer's day, and was an essential part of my first MIDI studio. To continue the parallel, I also bought MOTU's "Professional Composer" which was one of the worst, buggiest, pieces of software ever released, just as their hardware was getting better and better.

Still, who wouldn't feel more comfortable buying the Mobile I/O knowing that everything Metric Halo has ever released, hardware, software, dinner napkins, etc., works as advertised?

Regards,

MattiMattMatt
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