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Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?
Old 5th January 2003
  #1
Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

I want something with compression, pre and a DI. U hear all this hype of Avalons, but what else is comparable for the same amt. of $?
Old 5th January 2003
  #2
Re: Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
I want something with compression, pre and a DI. U hear all this hype of Avalons, but what else is comparable for the same amt. of $?

Hey Johooza,

Just got your email, i may know of someone looking to get rid of a 737(purple knobs) for around $1100 in the city. If you are interested I'll keep you posted.

Peace.
Old 5th January 2003
  #3
Gear Head
 
droog's Avatar
 

Focusrite ISA220. It should be pretty close in price to the Avalon.

I use both of them and (of course) they sound completely different , but the feature set you suggested is pretty much the same for each (i.e. mic pre/DI , EQ , compressor). Topology of each is completely different , valve vs solid state (I'm pretty sure it's all IC , but I'm prepared to be wrong).
Old 5th January 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

thrill
I thought you were going to talk about the Amek CIB.
You've got me curious about that one.
Old 5th January 2003
  #5
Re: Re: Re: Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
thrill
I thought you were going to talk about the Amek CIB.
You've got me curious about that one.
Hey Renie,

I guess I never see the two as being similar...but come to think of it you are right.

Except the Avalon I think is $1700(maybe?) and the CIB's last time I checked were around $2400.

Also the 737 has a DI, the CIB has a line input but its XLR.

Both Pre's are useful(I prefer the CIB for males/737 for females).

The EQ is hands down better on the CIB.

Both comps leave a lot to be desired.

If I had the choice for recording vocals/keys it would be the CIB.

But i think with his question the price is an issue.
Old 5th January 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

Thrill

I see.

The Avalon is more expensive than the CIB in the UK.

So, overall, for female vox would you still plump for the CIB, if it were either/ or?

ta
Old 5th January 2003
  #7
thrill -
yeah, man... please. keep me updated (if u hear of other gear as well)

thanks..

what do u'se think of the millennia stt-1?
Old 5th January 2003
  #8
Pendulum Quartet or Millennia Media STT-1. Both are different flavors.
Old 5th January 2003
  #9
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Thrill

I see.

The Avalon is more expensive than the CIB in the UK.

So, overall, for female vox would you still plump for the CIB, if it were either/ or?

ta
Renie

Yeah i would. I really like this unit on vocals.

By the way Renie, I do EQ vocals sometimes when tracking. On certain mics I have noticed that it can be a little thick, so I may thin it out a tad(roll off some bottomn) and I sometimes add a little air(yeah the air thing again) for clarity.

The 737's pre is a little clearer. I tend to EQ less when tracking, but its less "magical"on the wrong mics.

I think with the right mic the CIB is killer on vocals!!!

Its also great with synths. Its actually my favorite line pre for Rolands(XV5080,1080,etc)they tend to give the sounds a little bit of extra life especially the drums.

I can't say enough about the EQ. It is really primo, yeah its not surgical(GML8200) but its a lot of fun. Its one of my favorites on synth basses(the Moog 3 band parametric is the other).
Old 5th January 2003
  #10
Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
thrill -
yeah, man... please. keep me updated (if u hear of other gear as well)

thanks..

what do u'se think of the millennia stt-1?
I'll find out for you today.

The stt-1 is really nice, but if you are recording vocals its is not as forgiving on the wrong mics.

What I mean is you need a great vocal mic with it, it is very truthful about the wrong choices. But the time I did used it, I loved the vocal tracks that i got with it.
Old 6th January 2003
  #11
what a pain in the ass gear is...

i find myself reading forums convinced i need a particular piece.

lessee.. manley had a vaccum tube cleaner that sounds really good when u plug it into a wall. u know, i have hardwood floors, but shit man... tubes! have u heard how good this sounds??? its a manley... how can i go wrong?


i.... must..... have..... it.....


(my precious... we must gets it...)


*sigh*

ok... eat or gear.... eat or gear....
Old 6th January 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

>CIB

Thrill

I definitely want to hear the CIB.
The EQ sounds very versatile.
What is it you like so much about it? Would you say the compressor is useful for light tracking or not much use at all?
and what mic's do you find killer with it?

thanks!!
Old 7th January 2003
  #13
What about the 737 vs. Summit Audio MPC-100A?
Old 7th January 2003
  #14
Re: >CIB

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Thrill

I definitely want to hear the CIB.
The EQ sounds very versatile.
What is it you like so much about it? Would you say the compressor is useful for light tracking or not much use at all?
and what mic's do you find killer with it?

thanks!!
Ren(that sounds kinda weird...like Ren and Stimpy?)heh

Renie,

The CIB EQ is to me a cross between a old school Neve EQ and a Focusrite Neve EQ. Even though it is a transformerless design, ol Rup has got it to have some character, not too much mind you but just enough.

I like it because I can thicken a track without over doing it.

Yes the compressor is useful. I own the real things(Neve comps) and there is no comparison, but these are useful though.

I actually love it with an old AKG 414EB(with C12 capsule great for male vocals). It also loves U67's and some 47's. With an 87 its great cause you can EQ some character into it.

Like I said it is a cool piece(I wish I had another).

I had a chance, but decided to flip for the other new Neve piece...Summit/Neve MPE-200.

I was needing this EQ badly!!! Its agreat companion for PT. Being able to do recalls on it is a life saver(especially for vocals...YES!!!). I am still feeling it out, but so far I like how it feels.heh

If you want an idea what it sounds like(CIB) listen to some of the latest Take 5 recordings. The engineer tracks all of their vocals with it.
Old 7th January 2003
  #15
Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
What about the 737 vs. Summit Audio MPC-100A?
The Summit is a piece of junk.grudge

I did like it once though when mixing a snare( I like tube comps sometimes on snares). But for everything else it was a dissapointment(like a lot of the newer Summit pieces).

If I had the option I'd go with the Avalon.heh
Old 7th January 2003
  #16
Well as my first piece of outboard gear, the MPC aint that bad. I'm gonna keep on trying different pieces till i've a/b'd everything within my price budget...

I put my synths thru it and went +4db out into my motu 1224. For each track i did this and it definetley sounds more alive.

Ideally, i would like something I can track vocals thru (something with a compressor), something to master thru but most importantly, something with a nice fat DI as well to send my synths thru.

Is this too much to ask for ya think?
Old 7th January 2003
  #17
Has to be stereo eh? (Synths)



Old 7th January 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
AudioGaff's Avatar
I owned a Summit MPC-100A for 5-years and really liked the mic-pre (990 opamp) and the DI was decent for bass and dry electric guitar but the compressor was almost never useful for me except for snare and sometimes kick. I sold it and bought a API 512C mic-pre and API 525 compressor and am 1000 times more satisfied as well as now having the phatest, thickest tone combo I've ever heard. Proved to me that you don't have to have tubes to be phat...

As a recent owner of two CIB's I can attest to the fact that they are the greatest all in one box I've used. A little disappointed in the compressor, but it still is very usefull and has it's own merits.
And like my dbx 160SL, The CIB light show is a real client eye catcher as well.
Old 7th January 2003
  #19
Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
Well as my first piece of outboard gear, the MPC aint that bad. I'm gonna keep on trying different pieces till i've a/b'd everything within my price budget...

I put my synths thru it and went +4db out into my motu 1224. For each track i did this and it definetley sounds more alive.

Ideally, i would like something I can track vocals thru (something with a compressor), something to master thru but most importantly, something with a nice fat DI as well to send my synths thru.

Is this too much to ask for ya think?

Well Mr. Fats,

You are in a dilemna!!!

Of the all in one boxes I've ever used, the best DI was in the Voxbox and probably second was the 737. The CIB doesn't have a DI input, but you if used a 1/4' to XLR you can patch directly into the line input.

The best pre and EQ is the CIB and second is the 737(hint!!!). The Voxbox pre is hit or miss thing(mostly hits). The Focusrite 430's pre was pretty good also(even though I was never crazy about the 110 pre anyway). I 've never used the GML combo unit, but I've used all of the main components(I still own a GML8200) and I am sure it would be close to the top or at the top.

The best comp? That's a tough one. I don't really like any of the comps that much in any of the units(with the exception of the GML which is bitch to master).

Maybe your best bet, is to buy a seperate micpre/DI and compressor. Maybe something like a CIB and a Trakker for instance. Than you can buy another Trakker and link them together to do some mixbuss compression.

Some food for thought.
Old 7th January 2003
  #20
Lives for gear
 
RKrizman's Avatar
 

Re: Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

Quote:
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
I want something with compression, pre and a DI. U hear all this hype of Avalons, but what else is comparable for the same amt. of $?
No eq? How about a Great River 2-NV and a RNC. Or kick it up a notch with a pair of Trakkers. Bam!

-R
Old 7th January 2003
  #21
jules -

I guess it does not have to be in stereo. I can run L & R seperately, then bounce that...

thrill -

i would love to get a seperate pre and compressor, like a CIB and a Trakker, but funds are holding me back. What do u think of the API 512C/525 combo?
oh, and did u talk to yer buddy about that avalon?

RKrizman -

have u a/b'd the great river to the API or Avalon?


thanks, y'all
Old 8th January 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

Thrill

Thanks for the views, much appreciated.

I'll demo one this year!!
Old 8th January 2003
  #23
Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Thrill

Thanks for the views, much appreciated.

I'll demo one this year!!
Renie,

Any time.

Are you considering mostly for your vocals?keys?
Old 9th January 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

CIB

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor


Are you considering mostly for your vocals?keys?
Yes, right.

Primarily I'm looking at getting something to fatten and soften the main vocalist I work with- female. I get pretty good results with the AKG SolidTube and the Trak2 micpre (have you heard this?), with plug-in's. I'm seeking to improve the sound though. I'm thinking about getting a box like the CIB and a new mic, maybe the Soundelux U195, possibly a U87. Maybe I'd be better off buying more expensive items and doing it bit by bit, like getting a Manley Ref C or a Soundelux U47, then a 1073, then a Tubetech comp or 1176, then a nice EQ. That could take a while though! So I'm thinking of coming up a level in the meantime.

The way I track in the studio isn't brilliant, a large slatted flexible wooden screen with duvets lining and capping it, that gets placed in a circle around the vocalist, so that's another issue that needs resolving.

A bit like this actually

I also like the thought of having something to stick my modules through -XV5080 and Z1 and stuff. the CIB sounds like it'd be cool for that too. Acoustic guitar is another consideration.

If you've got any thoughts.....




PS. Why do you call yourself Thrillfactor? Is it because you're good at getting excitement in your mixes?
Old 9th January 2003
  #25
Re: CIB

Quote:
Originally posted by Renie
Yes, right.

Primarily I'm looking at getting something to fatten and soften the main vocalist I work with- female. I get pretty good results with the AKG SolidTube and the Trak2 micpre (have you heard this?), with plug-in's. I'm seeking to improve the sound though. I'm thinking about getting a box like the CIB and a new mic, maybe the Soundelux U195, possibly a U87. Maybe I'd be better off buying more expensive items and doing it bit by bit, like getting a Manley Ref C or a Soundelux U47, then a 1073, then a Tubetech comp or 1176, then a nice EQ. That could take a while though! So I'm thinking of coming up a level in the meantime.

The way I track in the studio isn't brilliant, a large slatted flexible wooden screen with duvets lining and capping it, that gets placed in a circle around the vocalist, so that's another issue that needs resolving.

A bit like this actually

I also like the thought of having something to stick my modules through -XV5080 and Z1 and stuff. the CIB sounds like it'd be cool for that too. Acoustic guitar is another consideration.

If you've got any thoughts.....




PS. Why do you call yourself Thrillfactor? Is it because you're good at getting excitement in your mixes?
Hi Renie,

Is your vocalist a soprano,mezzo soprano or alto?

Also what style of music?

All these are important in finding the right chain for your vocalist. The most crucial element is the right microphone, so I would concentrate mostly on that(I would say the AKG solidtube can be a bit of a dog sometimes, you are going to need some serious EQ). I think with the right mic and a Trac 2 you could get some nice vocal recordings. I would suggest a compressor as part of the package but that can be kinda tricky(I don't always compress vocals when tracking by the way). I think for a dual purpose mic pre/EQ the CIB is a great choice(you may need another if you are tracking in stereo though). Like i said it shines on vocals and synths, and having an excellent EQ helps in mixdown(though sometimes having the same EQ going both ways is not the coolest idea, you can supplement with some nice plug ins).

Are you getting any reflections of the wooden screen? What else is in the room? Also how is her headphone mix? Is she using headphones or are you using speakers? These are also crucial elements for a vocalist. They not only have to hear themselves,but feel comfertable in their surroundings.

I hope this helps some.

Let me know if I can give you any more ideas. Maybe you can send me your budget for your vocal channel and I can help you find alternatives.

P.S. The name"TheThrillFactor"was given to me for two reasons:
1)My nickname in the industry(Rap and Rnb) was"TheThrill"(it rhymes with my real name).
2)And it is the term I use for the "percolating" element in my mixes/productions. Its that jumpy feeling when you hear something for the first time that really grabs you and you want to hear more. I just coined the term and rated music for that element. Like a Thrill Factor of 1 is ok/good(the song gets you going but that's it). A Thrill Factor of 10 is a classic.
Everytime you hear it, you always remember the "first time".heh
Old 9th January 2003
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Renie's Avatar
 

thanks Thrill!

I'll PM you.
Old 9th January 2003
  #27
Lives for gear
 
gyraf's Avatar
 

RE: Whats Comparable to a Avalon 737?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JoHoozaFats...
I want something with compression, pre and a DI. U hear all this hype of Avalons, but what else is comparable for the same amt. of $?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... An alternative could be something like our Gyratec II valve recording channel. Not available in the US as of now though...

http://www.gyraf.dk/gyraf2/gyratec2/index.htm

Recently reviewed by George Shilling in the british "Resolution Magazine":

http://www.gyraf.dk/gyraf2/gyratec-2_rewiev.jpg

Jakob Erland
Old 10th January 2003
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
ghoost's Avatar
 

JoHoozaFats ..

Take a look at the SPL Gold Channel ..

http://www.soundperformancelab.com/C.../in_short.html

Very innovative co, A lotta bang for the buck. Same range as the 737. No, I havn't heard the unit, but I have yet to hear anything bad about their products . The British reviews seem seem consistant. Perhaps Jules can add something to this. Their Transient Desiner is definitly on my list.

I do get tempted every few months to replace my 737's with this unit or perhaps a stereo CIB. The 737 comp is useless for me. The EQ is useful, but doesn't rock my socks, although I'll admit it is finding it's way into a few more mixes The pre is the best part.
Old 11th January 2003
  #29
Well, have anyone heard the SPL device? How much does it run for?
Old 11th January 2003
  #30
hmm... it seems everyone bad mouths the compresor on the 737.

it is pretty, but what about something with as decent of a compressor as the pre on it?
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