I need help from my New York brothers!
I have lived in the same apartment in NYC for the past sixteen years. ItÕs in a luxury doorman building on Lexington Ave. & 26th Street. The apartment is a 700 sq.ft. studio with half of the room being 400 sq.ft. and has 9Õ6" ceilings. I have successfully recorded everything from live drums to ÔThe Uptown HornsÕ without so much as a knock on the door. NowÉ.we donÕt do that at night, etc. ButÉI have gotten away with murder for years. That is about to end. ItÕs a very convoluted story but, I have to move. They are not renewing my lease.
For those of you who live in Manhattan you know how particularly devastating this can be. IÕm now paying $1,300.00 a month. They will put in a new kitchen and parquet floor and charge (and get) around $2,500.00 a month. There is no way I can replicate this situation in Manhattan. [comparable apts. are $3K a month & I could never make noise]. I have looked at a few lofts in Brooklyn. Although they are big and spacious, they simply have sheet rock walls. Forget about me making noise. IÕll hear my neighbors T.V.!

I have lived in Manhattan for 23 years and I love it. I am reaching out to one and all. A lifetime of being a musician has shown me what an amazing community we are. How, when we network, we can accomplish anything. You never know who knows who knows who! I believe in taking life by the horns and winning. I know I can come out of this with a great new story; "Did you hear about Benjy? He had to move, and found this amazingÉ.." SoÉ.IÕm reaching out. Any and all suggestions will be so appreciated. Got an uncle thatÕs the biggest real estate guy in NYC? Know of a studio thatÕs relocating to larger digs? Etc., etc.

Sincerely,
Benjy King
212.684.1172
www.benjyking.com

P.S. IÕm going to post this everywhere. I hope you all donÕt mind.

Man, that sucks! I have a brother that lives in a loft in Tribeca for a helluva lot less than his neighbors are shelling out... been there for a lotta years. Scary numbers for a place down there these day's. I sincerely hope you find something... wish I could help.

Ever think about moving out of Manhatten? Prices get lower in NJ, LI, Westchester County etc.

There are tons of live/work lofts in Yonkers NY, just north of NYC. A few years ago I was paying $850 for 4000sf right on the hudson river. I had a drum booth and no one ever complained. They are trying to turn downtown Yonkers into the next SOHO and in many ways it is ver similar to the soho of the 50's and 60's. Lots of spacious raw lofts. Old time feel etc. The only problem is its still considered an inner city ghetto. That never bothered me at all. It's just north of the city, it's easily accessible by metro north or car and it is very up and coming to those with vision. My studio is located there and I have had no problems at all. I would never live in NYC.

Like I said, Yonkers may be the most unknown yet potential filled "next" big area. Developers are dyuing to bring the art and musician community up there. Get in touch if you need more info. I know a few people who may be able to hook up loft space.

Hey Benjy,

Been there done that.

This year alone i lost two apartments in Manhattan, so now I am looking again. A work/live space in Manhattan right now is almost impossible(unless you move further Uptown). With the new renter laws(more favorable to the landlords) its actually against the law in Manhattan to have that kind of situation.

Outside of Manhattan its a different story. Right now the 3 possible areas are:1)Williamsburg 2)Astoria 3)The South Bronx right over the FDR.

The Williamsburg boon is almost over. If you didn't jump on it 5-10 years ago you are screwed, because people were smart enough to buy the cheap land/buildings and convert them into artist loft/spaces. These artist spaces are for artists(photographers,painters,sculpters)but not for music(shorter lease and easier turnover ratio). The recording studios that jumped on them are seeing their leases start to go through the roof(same as in Manhattan). Bedford which is now like the Village charges the same for their spaces like in midtown/downtown Manhattan.

Astoria/LIC has seen a big growth(a lot of empty factories)have been converted into lofts. The one problem with a studio there is its hard to get to(it is almost deserted at night) and its near the railroad(soundproofing problems). The spaces are starting to charge the same as in Manhattan and Williamsburg. The same as in Williamsburg they don't want recording studios in their spaces, but with the right amount of dough upfront(ie a year's rent-$24K) they may go for it.

Lastly there is the abandoned waterfront along the FDR(South Bronx). Their used to be a lot of furniture factories there. I knew of a famous furnisher rebuilder/reggae artist who has a refinshing/recording studio there. I read recently in the NY Times how a lot of artists are going there for spaces. They are raw but doable. You can't get there by train though and I couldn't a woman walking by there at night by themselves(too dangerous), but if you want space its the next place in the city.

I ended up giving up on the live/work idea and just rented a loft downtown(I am building my new control room there) and decided to just get an apartment. Sure my rent bills will be around $3K a month(ouch!!!), and once my lease is up I may have to move my studio for the fifth time in 10 years. But hey its NYC,the music business, nothing is really stable anymore. You have to live for now and take all you get. I can't even fathom tomorrow much less 5-10years from now.

If you have never lived in NYC. . . . . you have NO IDEA what a drag this can be. Any other city in the US, maybe outside San Francisco . . . . hell it's no big deal, as you just go get a new place. When you have a great place in NYC . . you stay put. It's a bitch to get an good apartment, much less one you can work in and live comfortably. I know Benjy well . . I hate this for him. I know it sucks. He has had a studio in there in one form or another for a long time. He is a very talented guy as well. I hope someone knows of something that can help him out.

Manny,

Please stop talking about Yonkers. I live here (condo/co-op) , I work here (5 yr lease; 2500sq ft), and I'm house hunting here.

Maybe after I get my house, we can invite our wealthy Manhattan friends up, but not before. I've already been driven out of Tarrytown; when the NYSE mentioned that they'd move an office there, my prospective house went from 4275,000 to $420,000 - in 3 weeks.


YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!YONKERS SUXX!


Identity withheld yuktyy

I was looking at Astoria last November....

Price hike's seem a nightmare can that be 'fixed' in a lease?

or are all the landlords total weasles?

Benjy,

Good luck with your hunt -- hope something turns up for you!

Best wishes,

Jon

YO NYC Drew, email me at [email protected]. I have my studio on Nepperhan ave. I am interested in hearing about your experiences here in Yonkers. In my opinion, there are still a lot of gems left, but landlords are already treating the area as though it has come up and are starting to charge high rent. When you laugh in their face though, the price miraculously comes down though.I look forward to hearing from you when you have some time.

I suppose anything within walking distance from Balduccis' is out of the question?

Hey Manny,

Maybe if you do Rap, but trying getting a major label client(american or abroad) to go to Brooklyn much less Yonkers is almost impossible. When people hit the city from around the world they just don't see the need to go any where else. Heck i know people that have lived in Manhattan for over 10 years and have never been to the Bronx!!!

Most of the new bigger recording complexes are in either Brooklyn or New Jersey. Most of the people that record there aren't Manhattanites(more like people in the surrounding areas). I don't know why there is such a bias towards the studios outside Manhattan, but I guess that's how they've(Manhattan studios) been able to stay in business this long. When I looked for a location for my new room I purposedly chose midtown/downtown(near the train stations and close to Times Square). I just know how artists are here and they look at it as a mini vacation to come to the big city!!!

You need to be IN the city. It's important. Yes, some do well outside the city but . . . . . for the most part . . being IN the city is the only way to go. No one wants to leave the city to do gigs unless it's REALLY outside and it's like a mini day vacation (get away). A player (session guy) can do multiple sessions in one day if all the studios are IN Manhattan. Make one of those studios outside the city, where he has to travel . . you just screwed up his schedule. Cartage is a pain in the ass. Traffic. Just getting to a studio in LIC can be a pain in the ass compared to one straight downtown.

Most of us that love NYC . . don't WANT to leave to do a session some place else. Plus . . (this sounds ****ty), but many of us didn't call players that lived outside the city to do sessions as much as those IN the city. Unless they were really special or a good pal. They were always late (holding the session up) or there were cartage issues, transportation issues . . they always wanted to leave before traffic, after traffic . . whatever. (for some . . it may be different. I'm speaking for myself)

And . . . . someone IN the city gets more "spot" calls as well. You know . . . . you are stuck . . . some player didn't work out. "Call so and so . . he is over on 23rd and 5th. He can be here in an hour". . . . Same for studios.

There is also this "brotherhood" thing. (I know I'm going to catch **** for that, but . . ) it's like people that fight and survive the day to day in NYC relate to each other.

Also . . . the spirit of that place is inspiring as ****. To walk out of a session and see THAT skyline . . . . or see Lennon walking down the street (sadly a long time ago). . . . nothing like it!

I remember one night, it was snowing like hell, late as **** (4AMish). NO taxis because of this blizzard. No one even on the street. I walked 30 blocks home . . w/ Salvador Dali! We were both trying to get a cab . . then decided to just start walking together. Now THAT makes you want to lift yourself up a few notches! Doesn't happen a lot in Secaucus, NJ. (No offense if you live in Secaucus)

I've always wondered how Rudy Van Gelder convinced the entire NYC jazz community to trek across the GWB nearly every day during his glory days (mid-50's to mid-60's)? Particularly the first several years when he was working out of his parent's living room?!?!?

(Producer to band: "No, we're not gonna record at the Columbia studios, too drafty. We're all gonna pile in the station wagon and go over to some kid's house in Jersey. We'll help him push his mom's furniture outta the way and then we'll record the coolest jazz tracks ever recorded.")

How the hell did the entire NYC jazz scene get convinced that they had to make that trip out of the city and to a suburban living room? (at least before it had a few hundred stellar recordings to bolster its rep)???

steve

LOL! Pretty damn funny! So true! He had some kind of mojo . . didn't he?
Man, I bet he saw and heard some amazing ****! Day after day after day . . that level of players! Incredible.

Just think how much better all those recordings would have been if he could have just put Elvin Jones perfectly on the beat in Pro Tools or AutoTuned Coltrane!!! *Makes me want to puke*

Can't you just see it? Coltrane plays one chorus . . . then stops, tells Rudy to copy and paste that in all the hooks! *sheesh! I think I DID just puke!*

I agree with you to a certain extent. Many musicians do not want to travel etc.. Luckily I don't rely on recording to pay my bills, so I have leeway as far as location is concerned (my studio is in the same space as my percussion instrument rental company which does pay the bills). I have recorded a few bands in my Yonkers loft and after the initial grumbling, they have come to appreciate and gain inspiration from the raw industrial look and feel. For commercial owners, you are right. It may be too much of a risk.

a word for my neighborhood, greenpoint in brooklyn. just north of williamsburg, safe place, reasonable rents in beautiful (if neglected) buildings. your side walls are typically brick, so those neighbors don't care, and if you're on the first floor you'll probably be ok. yes there are a lot of people who won't ever leave manhattan, but there are tons of musicians in the area and at least one known recording studio in williamsburg (coyote). and it's still the city, bars stay open late and restaurants deliver. pm me if you want tips.

Alt rock / indie records MUST be being made OUTSIDE Manhattan... surely?



Anyhow, you might find it interesting to note that the producer / studio owner of the alt rock NYC based 70's New Wave influenced band The Strokes, decided NOT to build on his rep in NYC where his studio was based & recorded them, but instead upped sticks and relocated to the UK. Where UK lables are throwing him projects....

I would say tons of it.

There are a lot of great recording studios in the Williamsburg section alone. I think most of the Neve places are there right now(last time I checked).

If you need a spacious recording place and don't wan't to compromise the budget, than that's one of the best places to go. Also there is NJ area(Mr. Jay Kahrs can elaborate more).

Oh sure there are Jules. I was speaking more for "session type" situations, then bands. (if you are replying to any info from my post). You have to remember . . there is a lot of other work in NYC then self contained bands (just like London). In no way am I saying that it's the ONLY place. I was simply saying . . if you are going to be in NYC and the surrounding area . . . from my experience, it seems best to be in Manhattan. (if you can)

Bands are being recorded all over America. Brendan is here in Atlanta, probably recording more successful bands then any producer in NYC or possibly anywhere else. Midwest is putting out good stuff. Good stuff in a lot of places. There are cool studios all over the US.

Personally, I was talking the NYC area and referring to a guy like Benjy's situation. I can understand his delimma and how tough it is. After being in NYC doing your thing at a certain level . . t's tough to leave, even if it is "just outside" the city.

I'm going to have to face it soon myself when I go back. Not looking forward to it. To have what I have back in NYC is going to cost a bundle.

Manny,

I'll holler at you later this week....taking care of a little "family" business tonight.

My number is 914 760 1005. Call after 10am, and we cool.

I had a l-o-n-g conversation today with my music attorney. 90% of my production work is *walk in*. In that people pay this attorney a lot of money for a consultation. They come from where ever....all over the country. They may be local or they plan a trip. He assesses their situation and may have them meet with as many as four different producers. In my situation that means they get in a cab and go to 88 Lex. between 26th & 27th street. Tell the doorman apartment MG. They come in and are blown away by the whole vibe of the gear AND the home. I have a great rap and a lot to back it up with. I always get the gig(HA!!). But seriously, it's very insular. As some have mentioned, it's just going to be different now. I don't know what it will be like if the attorney says,: "OK. Take the Lincoln tunnel to RT 1 & 9 and head towards Bergen, New Jersey. The address is blah, blah, blah". Maybe they would go. It could happen I guess. All I can really go by, right now, is my experience. I produced one band this year and mixed one other band. I produced, engineered and played all of the instruments on three other records. That's what I mostly do. Produce artists (singer/songwriter's who may play acoustic gtr.) This is what I've been doing for a long time. They come to me a couple days a week to work and I work on the rest of it when I want. Completely insanely convenient for every one. We are all creatures of habit and products of our environment. This is what I've been doing for a long time. I'm getting ready for a big change. It *will* be good. It's just like any big change. Plus...I am the quintessential Taurus. I hate change.

I really appreciate all of this input from every one. It means a lot.

Sincerely,
Benjy

Good luck Benjy,

I'll keep my ear to the ground and if I hear of anything interesting I will gladly pass it along to you.

Again good luck.

TF

So it seems in the past a significant part of your USP has been the 'snazz factor' of your location.

Perhaps you are far enough down the line with reputation now that you dont need to rely on the central location aspect to swing getting the gigs?

Knox mentioned Brendon O'Brian in Atlanta, at his level he could set up anywhere (like Hawaii, Idaho, Alaska) and folks would flock to him regardless.

You said nothing of what your attorney chum actually thought of your re location..



What WAS his opinion? Can you rely on his back up,? Will he tell folks you are worth a trip across town? Or his he going to be a PITA location **** about a move off Manhattan and favor a more local person? Does the Attorney ever visit the sessions he 'gives you'? Is there any reason at all why HE should really care where you are set up?

A family or 'real' neighborhood with cafes' post ofices, banks, stores can be pleasant to join when you nip out for a break from a session and can be just as much fun as being run over by well heeled NYC pedestrians.. OK- OK it's sounds like a desolate wharehouse area that a rock band might find 'cool' aint gonna work for you.... while you are doing your **** what DO the artists like to do when they are not recording? Urban poseing? - If so - you gotta stay local!

Do you record much acc instruments? If so.... what?

I only lived in NYC as a child for 3 years, but it is my favorite city and I visit often and daydream of setting up there one day , right around the corner from Alene Grocery - FAT CHANCE! grudge

Jules part of the problem is that the lawyer gets in the cab with the artists and "pops"up. So the location is as much important to the lawyer as to the artist. What lawyer wants to show up to a neighborhood were people are hanging out on stoops selling drugs or just loitering. Its a reflection as much to him as to Benjy and it can in the end soil his reputation as someone who is legitimate. Hey you know what they say first impression is everything in this business, if you look like you got it together the artist management will most likely trust your word.

Lexington between 26th and 27th is a different area(not as much people traffic) but it is still a docile area(Mcdonalds on the corner right next to the train station and a lot of Middle Eastern shops). At night it looks a little abandoned, but its Manhattan East side abandoned, not the same.heh

So you want to live by Arlene Grocery huh? Its doable. There are a couple of nice"project studios"in the area. It used to be really cheap down there(early 90's)but ever since people moved down to Alphabet City, it changed the landscape and the price for real estate.

I wanna hear from Benjy 's lawyer had to say...

Sounds like a catch 22 may be emerging, where folks want the studio servises to be

a) cheap
b) centraly located in an expensive area

While I may have merely stated the obvious about the NYC studio scene, Benjy needs to do SOMETHING. Perhaps a wildcard - new way of working needs to evolve.

Renting a chic but tiny room in a studio complex that contains rec rooms, cafe, receptionists & a larger live area that can be booked with prior arangement.???

Laptop & go round to the artist's houses?

Make the **ing lawyer be a partner in a studio premisis
and see how THEY like it?

I am getting the feeling that these are 'vanity' / demo / spec recordings Benjy is referring to.. If not, apologies and no offence meant in the slightest....

It's just that I have heard these are a big industry in NYC. Singing stockbrokers, Diva secretary's etc... all working on 'their album' and that there are LOTS of hard working engineer/production folks making a living off this work.(and no doubt, music lawyer consultants that 'hook folks up')

Benjy please explain the typical music buisness scenario behind the typical session.. that will give experienced NYC folks a feel for what to suggest.

GLOBAL PRICE HIKES FOR ALL ENGINEERS & PRODUCERS!



There has been a guy called Scott advertizing his NYC muti-studio space for about a year now.. I emailed him for you. He is a Gearslut, he may show up on this thread!

It's a big business in Nashville, too - if only major labels were recording here, there wouldn't be nearly as many rooms...

And I've had guys tell me that they could keep my room booked 7 days a week if it were in Berry Hill or on Music Row, so I can sympatuize with Benjy, too.

The fact that it's so difficult to get a major label deal has been very liberating in some ways. People tend to just make it happen on their own. I have been benefiting from that scenario for some time now. I have worked for labels. You work your ass off, cow towing to A & R people, etc., etc. You wait and wait to get paid. Half the time the record doesn't get released. Look at my discography. All of that and much more is out there, in stores and for sale on the internet. That's a beautiful thing.

The point about guys like Brendan OÕBrien working anywhere they want is well taken. But, my god, look who we're talking about. The attorney believes I'm getting awfully close to the 'build it and they will come' vibe. The biggest thing here is change. I fly about 30 weekends a year. I'm 14 minutes from the airport. That's a perk. Talk about perks. Right now (6:00 p.m.) I'm working on a mix. Suddenly my Purple Audio 1176 shut off. I picked up the phone and called Andrew Roberts. He said it's the fuse....but I won't have one. He's stopping by at 6:30 on his way to dinner at (coincidence) a restaurant on 18th and Park (five blocks away). PERK.

Again, this is not a room with recording equipment. It's a studio. As Rob Darling said to me while standing in my apartment and listening to drums; "This so reminds me of studio 'B' at the old Hit Factory (I'm sure there are some here who remember that room). I've been stupid, crazy lucky and I know it. A change is gonna' come. I just don't want to step too far back wards, although in some regards I will have to.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Benjy