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Is the EV 635 a "forgotten" vocal sleeper microphone? Dynamic Microphones
Old 9th August 2012
  #121
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emrr View Post
I'd rather make a record with a dozen 635A's than a dozen sm57's.

If you can't lose drum bleed in a scratch vocal mic, and the artist might insist on using the scratch vocal, the bleed in a 635A at least sounds far more natural than most directional mics.


I love dynamic mics and EV's are among my most favored!
So very under rated. affordable and the just work!
I have said it before and i'll say it again, i'd rather a locker full of good dynamics then and lot of cheap condensers.
Old 9th August 2012
  #122
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635a's?

They're alright. Good for recording to tape at slower speeds on a budget cuz they're really bright and capture almost too much. Really a mic that was meant for 4-track recording to tape IMHO cuz they're so global and...bright, really chest level and above. Like they're anticipating some 15 ips bump or something.

If I recorded reggae live 4 to say 8 track to tape - bingo.

Gut level kicking rock album with girth...jury's still out on that one. Maybe overheads? At that point I'm reaching for things like u87, md421, sm57, d12, bk-5...I'm no pro but it's just not what comes to mind.

Still a very reasonable mic to have though I would think if you have a wide range of vocalists coming through your station.

2 bits,
-soup
Old 11th August 2012
  #123
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IMHO "as is" they tend to be well suited out of the box for female vocalists, and male tenors. In lower keys (bari/bass), I like it when they're run through a thicker sounding pre (ala 610/710 set on tube "stun").

In the cheap seats, they also sound good through a (gasp) stock Bellari MP105, for example.

Chris
Old 14th August 2012
  #124
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I'd like to ask a specific application question if you guys can help me.

I recorded six 9-10 YO girls singing together to a recorded track headphone mix using a pair of condensors in an X-Y setup. A couple of them were pretty loud. A couple were pretty soft. Each had solo parts here and there. They stepped to the front of the mics and sang their solo parts there.

I thought the room wasn't bad....until I listened to the mix.

Problems: 1) roomy sounding in places 2) one of the girls was sibilant; 3) boosting the volume for the softer singers in the mix leaves a thin-ness to their solos 4) no way to adjust the relative levels of each girl's voice when they were singing as a group (not blended well). 5) on the longer sustain notes, they went out of pitch.

Just thinking out loud---first, I am going to switch to a larger room and use acoustical panels to create a vocal booth. The room will still not be studio grade at that.

Going on from there, would it be better to give each kid a 635a--maybe enclosed in a foam sock like post #30 and record to separate tracks so I adjust their relative volumes? Switching to dynamic mics would also seem to help with the room problem.

I think they would blend better if they could hear each other directly. That would mean giving them a monitor feed instead of using headphones. I should be able to cut back on the bleed by inverting the track on another channel, but having multiple omni mics makes this harder to do I would think?

I'm wondering if putting each mic in a foam sock like in post #30 would help reduce the track bleed?

Do you suppose I could maybe pair the kids up on 3 of these 635a's (2 kids per mic) since the 635a is omnidirectional? Reducing the number of mics would probably make it easier to deal with the bleed from the track. However, turning up the gain to capture two kids per mic would seem to capture more track bleed.
Old 14th August 2012
  #125
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
635a's?

They're alright. Good for recording to tape at slower speeds on a budget cuz they're really bright and capture almost too much. Really a mic that was meant for 4-track recording to tape IMHO cuz they're so global and...bright

You sure we're talkin' about the same microphone?

They're certainly not bass-heavy...but No Bass != Bright

I've never heard a 635a that I thought was bright (nor can I recall hearing anyone else describe them as such). First thing that comes to mind is Reduced Bandwidth; no extreme top, no extreme bottom, just pedestrian midrange from 80-8k.
Old 14th August 2012
  #126
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post

I recorded six 9-10 YO girls singing together to a recorded track headphone mix using a pair of condensors in an X-Y setup. A couple of them were pretty loud.
have them step back
Quote:
A couple were pretty soft.
have them step up
Quote:
Each had solo parts here and there. They stepped to the front of the mics and sang their solo parts there.
masking tape markers on the floor is one possible way of getting repeatability on the distances. But it doesn't solve the problem of one person being out of tune, or needing a different EQ or whatever.

I just did a recording with 11 teenagers from a theater group. We had to borrow a few extra pairs of headphones, and we gave each girl her own dynamic mic and had them take 'one ear off' with the cans to hear the ensemble. It worked out pretty well. Of course they were a bit older, but I think the principle should be the same.
.

Quote:
Going on from there, would it be better to give each kid a 635a--maybe enclosed in a foam sock like post #30 and record to separate tracks so I adjust their relative volumes? Switching to dynamic mics would also seem to help with the room problem.
yes, but it doesn't have to be a 635a. In fact, I would lean towards cardioid mics for this application. You want each mic to pick up only that singer.


Quote:
I think they would blend better if they could hear each other directly. That would mean giving them a monitor feed instead of using headphones.
I usually recommend that they push back one earpiece of the headphone. They can push it back slightly or all the way off their ear, as they see fit, to blend how much they hear themselves in the room

another approach is to use some omni mics to pick up the sound of them singing in the room and blend that into the cue mix.

if you do use a speaker monitor, be careful to place it in the null of the mics and have your absorption behind the singers - so the sound doesn't bounce off the back wall back into the mics again

Quote:
I should be able to cut back on the bleed by inverting the track on another channel, but having multiple omni mics makes this harder to do I would think?
yes, this is hard enough to do with one cardioid mic.

You can try recording a pass with the mics just sitting there with no singers, just cue bleed and reverse that, but because each mic hears a different sound, I don't think the phase flipping thing is going to get you much overall cancellation.

Quote:
I'm wondering if putting each mic in a foam sock like in post #30 would help reduce the track bleed
?

no

Quote:
Do you suppose I could maybe pair the kids up on 3 of these 635a's (2 kids per mic) since the 635a is omnidirectional? Reducing the number of mics would probably make it easier to deal with the bleed from the track. However, turning up the gain to capture two kids per mic would seem to capture more track bleed
IMO unless the artists have problems with headphones, if you can do it with headphones, you should. Either the one-ear-off thing or the room-mic-to-cue-mix thing usually fixes the artist's complaints.

Recently I had to record a choir overdubbing to a track, I bragged to the Choir Director that my system could handle 12 headsets, 14 in a pinch. His reply was: "We have 40 singers in the choir"

THAT's when you have to go to playback from speakers.
Old 14th August 2012
  #127
Lives for gear
Thanks very much.

Any particular dynamic mics that should be on my list for this application if the 635a isn't one of them? EV n/d 767a?
Old 15th August 2012
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
Thanks very much.

Any particular dynamic mics that should be on my list for this application if the 635a isn't one of them? EV n/d 767a?
I have a 767 and it really works well on some voices. It has this airy thing going on on top that I like. With the 11 girls in the theater group we did not have time for shootouts or matching mic to voice. We stuck with dynamics, we had a 767, an i5, some 57s and 58s, a Beta 58, an M201, a 421 and a vintage 545. Whatever cardioid was around, we grabbed it. Where ever they stood, that's the mic they got!

I think any of those mics should be fine, but if you have only 4 singers, 4 condensers would be fine also. I would rather not combine them, though. For example, if only one girl gets 'The Condenser' it might put too much of a spotlight on that voice.
Old 15th August 2012
  #129
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Hmm..on the redo, we may be down to 4 girls (the two louder ones and the two softer ones).
Old 15th August 2012
  #130
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If you're down to four singers, just use one 635a to go "old school" ..

Put them in half circle/"cup position" (2 loudest in the middle), mic out in front.

Chris

P.S. Effective frequency goes up to around 13KHz BTW.
Old 15th August 2012
  #131
Lives for gear
After thinking this over, the two loud kids will drown out the two softer ones in a one mic approach.

I didn't have time to get into this very deeply yesterday, but in a quick comparison between a SM58 and a couple of ribbons, the room was not noticeable with the SM58. The sound was a bit dead. Thick pile carpeted floor might be part of it.
Old 17th August 2012
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
Any particular dynamic mics that should be on my list for this application if the 635a isn't one of them?
This:
VERY much like a 635a, but smoother & richer sounding, with more extension of the top and bottom.
.
Old 17th August 2012
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7
This:

Old 17th August 2012
  #134
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Jazz Noise's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
After thinking this over, the two loud kids will drown out the two softer ones in a one mic approach.

I didn't have time to get into this very deeply yesterday, but in a quick comparison between a SM58 and a couple of ribbons, the room was not noticeable with the SM58. The sound was a bit dead. Thick pile carpeted floor might be part of it.
Why not change their positioning? put the louder ones further back to the softer ones? Assuming all mics are at the same gain, how much "louder" are the close mics for the "Loud" girls than the "Quiet" ones? If it's 6db, double their distance from the mics, if it's 9 then triple it etc. etc. You will need direct mics at this stage to give them a little bit of direct sound too!

Alternatively take the softer ones aside and try and get them used to singing abit louder? They're kids, so the whole positive reinforcement/adult aproval thing should work in your favour.

Anyone know where I can get a 635a in Europe? I'm curious but these E-Bay folk are America only and there's only one Amazon dealer, Kellards, who don't list an international shipping rate (that I can see).
Old 17th August 2012
  #135
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PL9 --maybe one will show up for sale. Will add it to the (never ending) list.

Keeping kids in some position close or not close to a mic..... (Laugh with me). Maybe I could duct tape a mic to a bike helmet for each of them to wear?

But to a more serious question, does the 635a not pick up the room even though it's an omni?
Old 17th August 2012
  #136
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
PL9 --maybe one will show up for sale. Will add it to the (never ending) list.

Keeping kids in some position close or not close to a mic..... (Laugh with me). Maybe I could duct tape a mic to a bike helmet for each of them to wear?

But to a more serious question, does the 635a not pick up the room even though it's an omni?

There are no magic microphones.

Any omni mic will definitely pick up the room.

clustering around an omni is a cool way to pick up an ensemble of people who know what they are doing, and can balance themselves, in a good sounding space. For these kids you are talking about, it sounds like you may want the ability to adjust volumes and turn down mistakes, etc. If you want to have separation and control over each girl's channel to fix things later, a cardioid for each one is the way to go.

Sorry to have to say that in the "635a Thread"
Old 17th August 2012
  #137
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

If you like this EV dynamic sound but with a bit of directionality, don't forget about the N/D 468 or one of it's predecessors. Having a similar quality to the 535a, and still pretty cheap. It, too, can be a great choice on the Leslie or guitar cab, definitely fabulous for drum applications.
Old 17th August 2012
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post

But to a more serious question, does the 635a not pick up the room even though it's an omni?
Well, of course it picks up the room.

ALL mics do.

(Even cardioids.)

...And another thing:

In a "bad" room, the more mics you have running at the same time, the worse it sounds.

...So as I think out your particular situation, it dawns on me to point out that a figure-8 mic picks up MUCH less from the SIDES than a cardioid does from the rear.

And in ANY room, two mics placed very close together will not exhibit as many phase problems as they will if they are spaced apart (which is a particularly problematical thing in a "bad" room).

...So you MIGHT try placing two figure-8's right next to each other as if they were doing a Blumlein stereo pair (but with both mics panned center in the mix), and putting the loud voices on opposite sides of one mic, and the softer ones on opposite sides of the other.

That way, you'd have two tracks (one of the loud voices, and the other of the soft voices), and both mics would be rejecting as much room sound (with respect to voice) as possible.

And the "leakage" would be mostly comprised of the other voices (and mostly phase-coherent).

Just blend the two tracks to taste.
.
Old 17th August 2012
  #139
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
VERY much like a 635a, but smoother & richer sounding, with more extension of the top and bottom.

Smoother and richer, with more extension on top and bottom... in other words, NOTHING like a 635a.

Seriously, the band-limited crunchiness of the 635a is the whole point! Stick that thing under the hi-hat pointed at the bell from 2" out... so THAT's how they got that sound!


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 17th August 2012
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
There are no magic microphones.

Any omni mic will definitely pick up the room.

For these kids you are talking about, it sounds like you may want the ability to adjust volumes and turn down mistakes, etc. If you want to have separation and control over each girl's channel to fix things later, a cardioid for each one is the way to go.

Sorry to have to say that in the "635a Thread"
I asked for help, and I am glad to get it. Especially since I was headed in the wrong direction for this unique situation.

12xa7---I had a pair of Apex 205 ribbons set up in a Blumlein pattern the other day when we tested with the SM58, and I was getting more room effect than I liked. I will experiment with your suggestion after I move some panels around.

Between my room problems and needing to adjust relative levels between the kids, cardoids may be it this time around.

I'm still learning. Thank you all. I appreciate your help.

Edit: discovered a semi defective mic cable on one of the 205's that curiously allowed only a partial signal to pass instead of being totally dead. I may have mistaken that problem for room effect.....

Last edited by 2manyrocks; 19th August 2012 at 09:53 PM.. Reason: update
Old 21st August 2012
  #141
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Make mine black....
Attached Thumbnails
Is the EV 635 a "forgotten" vocal sleeper microphone?-635-ab-small-.jpg  
Old 8th October 2012
  #142
Gear Addict
this thread got me hooked ....for use on gtr cabs? ...how would the 635a compare to the RE50 that I already have (and generally prefer over the 57 for cleans el gtrs) ??????
They`re both broadcast mics AFAIK
Old 8th October 2012
  #143
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The RE50 is supposed to be a 635 with better housing to reduce handling noise, which can help reduce noise from floor/stands. I like it way better than a 57.
Old 8th October 2012
  #144
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Yes, the RE50 is the same microphone as the 635 only employing an outer body to reduce handling noises.

Dennis
Old 8th October 2012
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupking View Post
635a's? Really a mic that was meant for 4-track recording to tape IMHO cuz they're so global and...bright, really chest level and above. Like they're anticipating some 15 ips bump or something.
ENG/field interview mic, actually.
Old 8th October 2012
  #146
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I still need to get one of these.
Old 27th October 2012
  #147
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headspin's Avatar
 

The 635 has become the mic I always have on a stand. Never gets put away. If an idea comes quick, I've got the mic up and running in seconds.

On my latest song, I was using the 635 for demo vocals. Turns out the chorus just came out great, so I left it in. Sounds pretty cool, check it out if you'd like:
http://soundcloud.com/hellopsycho/my-heart-is-waking-up

Best mic you can buy for $40!
Old 27th October 2012
  #148
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Got mine a few weeks back! Really nice midrange quality to it, liking it on my guitar cabs and it works decently on my rather feeble trumpet skills. Looking forward to try it with acoustic guitar and vocals in the next few weeks!
Old 1st November 2012
  #149
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Very nice headspin!

Chris
Old 1st November 2012
  #150
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i keep finding uses for mine,

what an awesome mic! love it on guitars, vocals and now latest use is pointing it directly at a wall or window about an inch from the surface as a boundary type mic.

on a side note, got some interesting vocals with ta beta 52 the other day. figured why not and didn't mind the results so will try again.
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