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COMPROMISE ?!?!?!
Old 12th December 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

COMPROMISE ?!?!?!

how much gear do you guys recommend to do your daily job ( mixer , composers , soundcreators etc. ) ???

i am running out of gear , tracks & channels all day long .
it eats a lot of time and nervs to rearrange the situation to keep on working . i was never satisfied with doing submixes and rerecord em . f.ex. right now i am working on a drumpart :

to create a submix of the drums i run 16 protools outs to my desk

fx returns are takin another 12 channels

running the mainmix through some guitar amps and mic em eat the last channels my mixer provides

now in fact of i am unable to hear all the other stuff ( i can hear some ) my submix might be cool for a sample cd but it wont be the way i wanna have it " in the end " . but i HAVE to do it , otherwise i cant go on .

this stuff will be mixed in a bigger studio anyway , but i am still dreaming bout that setup where i can go

" now i need a comp and a verb for the backings , just TURN IT ON "

its kinda like a deadend street , everytime i was working with a digital setup which provided a lot of tracks and dsp power the sound didnt make my head go " wow , cool " . i am just wondering how you guys are solving that mindgame ???

heh
Old 12th December 2002
  #2
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
That's when you finish working on that song.

Client: Wouldn't it be great to hear a backwards piano with reverb in the bridge?
Me: No.
Client: Why?
Me: We're outta tracks. Though we can slave up...
Client: Ah **** it.

Why do you need 16 inputs to create a drum submix and why mic and reamp guitars if your not mixing?

BTW, your website hung and crashed my browser twice.
Old 12th December 2002
  #3
Lives for gear
 
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i need to do submixes in fact of having the ability to keep on tracking . i need to come up with all the parts by myself so its a lot of trying . if i am done with a submix i save my " drumediting session " take the 2-track drums and start a new session .
thats the way i am going through drums , guitars , keys , bass , etc . at the end i have a 8 track playback and i can start recording the vocal tracks . i am gonna end up with a 50+++ track session ( which anyway i am unable to playback ) and decide during mixing what we can kick and what we keep . its not that much bout " finding the right sound " in fact of frequencies etc. its more about " will the idea and the sound fit to the song " . its hard f.ex having the imagination of a delayed piano and playing it without a delay .

thx for your input and sorry for the crashdown

you didnt miss a lot on my website its just 1 page heh
but maybe you like the real audio stream , its a cool session i did with a awesome singer . probably too much smoke around , but hey its just a song heh
Old 12th December 2002
  #4
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

noone else does "kindalike" have the same problems ???

damn im fuKCed
Old 12th December 2002
  #5
I have 5 x mix cards and one old DSP card and I STILL max out my rig..

madd
Old 12th December 2002
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
That's when you finish working on that song.

Client: Wouldn't it be great to hear a backwards piano with reverb in the bridge?
Me: No.
Client: Why?
Me: We're outta tracks. Though we can slave up...
Client: Ah **** it.
Client: Wouldn't it be great to hear a backwards piano with reverb in the bridge?
Me: click click click.
Client: damn thats amazing
Me: you know it...
Old 12th December 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

moremoremore
Old 12th December 2002
  #8
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Albert's Avatar
 

You might want to make a work flow "inventory". In other words, analyze how you prefer to work and how many tracks it would take to work that way. Write it all down on paper. Once you have your track count and gear requirements mapped out, then you basically have a blueprint for what you need to put together.

Usually the only problem is one of money, because the solutions are all available for a price. It's just a question of how much you can spend. Any kind of low budget solution results in compromises, as your name for this thread says.

If you don't like the sound of DAW mixing with plugins (I don't either, generally) then you need to figure out how to create an analog system or a hybrid system of some sort. I personally think combining a DAW with hardware mixers and outboard effects units is the way to go. That way you can use the plugins you want, as well as any analog or digital outboard signal processing units.

People work a lot of different ways these days, but the bottom line is that the equipment should serve your needs, not get in the way. If you are designing your work process around the limitations of your gear in a major way then you certainly should re-evaluate your whole process from top to bottom. Then try to find a better fit for how you like to work and your gear.
Old 13th December 2002
  #9
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
Client: Wouldn't it be great to hear a backwards piano with reverb in the bridge?
Me: click click click.
Client: damn thats amazing
Me: you know it...
I can always do it, slave up extra decks, bounce something or whatever. But running out of tracks usually stops science experiment ideas. Since I hardly track anything in stereo once we fill up 23 tracks, well... there's a lot of **** there.
Old 13th December 2002
  #10
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
I can always do it, slave up extra decks, bounce something or whatever. But running out of tracks usually stops science experiment ideas. Since I hardly track anything in stereo once we fill up 23 tracks, well... there's a lot of **** there.
yea... but its the severe quickness in which i can carry out clients wishes that makes the difference.

normally, i run between 20-30 tracks. just mixed some songs as low as 3, some with only 12... most about 25 maybe. and i do record "stereo" tracks from time to time.
Old 13th December 2002
  #11
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
[QUOTE]Originally posted by alphajerk
[B]yea... but its the severe quickness in which i can carry out clients wishes that makes the difference.

Are you trying to say I'm slow? Or slower because I use tape most of the time instead of a DAW? When the **** did speed ever become an issue? I can work as fast if not faster then most of my clients.
Old 13th December 2002
  #12
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

most good stuff takes time ...

i am lucky i am not shooting movies

i agree with jay that running out of tracks and gear stops the

"SEXideas" grggt

thx 4 the inputs , go on please ,

nice day yall
Old 13th December 2002
  #13
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Are you trying to say I'm slow? Or slower because I use tape most of the time instead of a DAW? When the **** did speed ever become an issue? I can work as fast if not faster then most of my clients.
nope... im just making comment on your original statement of turning down a clients idea. simply saying if a client comes into my place with a thought i cary it out swifty and easily, decide if it works and then move on... i never shoot down an idea without hearing it first. you never know because it might be that one really cool thing.
Old 13th December 2002
  #14
Re: COMPROMISE ?!?!?!

Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up
how much gear do you guys recommend to do your daily job ( mixer , composers , soundcreators etc. ) ???

i am running out of gear , tracks & channels all day long .
it eats a lot of time and nervs to rearrange the situation to keep on working . i was never satisfied with doing submixes and rerecord em . f.ex. right now i am working on a drumpart :

to create a submix of the drums i run 16 protools outs to my desk

fx returns are takin another 12 channels

running the mainmix through some guitar amps and mic em eat the last channels my mixer provides

now in fact of i am unable to hear all the other stuff ( i can hear some ) my submix might be cool for a sample cd but it wont be the way i wanna have it " in the end " . but i HAVE to do it , otherwise i cant go on .

this stuff will be mixed in a bigger studio anyway , but i am still dreaming bout that setup where i can go

" now i need a comp and a verb for the backings , just TURN IT ON "

its kinda like a deadend street , everytime i was working with a digital setup which provided a lot of tracks and dsp power the sound didnt make my head go " wow , cool " . i am just wondering how you guys are solving that mindgame ???

heh

I got two words for you buddy...

Speck Xtramix!!!

76 inputs designed for situation such as yours(and everyone else). Transparent with headroom for days. You can use it as summing mixer also. Back in the 80's(here I go dating myself) this was a common problem with session keyboard players. Before multi timbral keyboards you had to slug a truck load of keys to a recording session. The problem was there were never enough inputs on the consoles(believe it or not) so the Speck was like the extension for alot of he world class consoles. A lot of the "cool" session keyboard players owned one and brought it with them to the sessions.

People rag on the Alge Bros all the time about their "Noahs Ark"setups(2 of everything so they don't have to switch between songs), but when you are mixing a lot of different songs on analog consoles this setup is the best(though very expensive).

Nowadays I just track the processing(to PT) as I go. This way I can better handle the enormous amount of processing. The other alternative is gigantic console or something like a Euphonix tower(less space).
Old 14th December 2002
  #15
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

thx a lot thrill ...


never saw the xtramix before , checked it out at mercenary ...
cool features ... right now too far away $$$

hrhr

the euphonix solution is a real cheap one heh

i looked around in my cellar and found a piece of gear i can work with so far

heh heh heh

thx yall keep on posting
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Old 14th December 2002
  #16
Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up
thx a lot thrill ...


never saw the xtramix before , checked it out at mercenary ...
cool features ... right now too far away $$$

hrhr

the euphonix solution is a real cheap one heh

i looked around in my cellar and found a piece of gear i can work with so far

heh heh heh

thx yall keep on posting
Hey where is your cellar?

Adolph's secret bunker?heh

Euphonix is a cheaper solution?

Good luck.
Old 14th December 2002
  #17
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 

hrhrhrhr
Old 14th December 2002
  #18
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Albert's Avatar
 

If a submixer like the Speck fits your needs, then take a look at the Mackie LM-3204. It has 16 stereo inputs. Routing is much more limited than the Speck, but you could certainly use it to submix fx returns and many other things.

The 3204 is the best sounding Mackie in my opinion, as it is really their simplest mixer as far as signal path. Also, there are no preamps in the path at all. It's line level inputs in to line level outputs. It's a clean sounding mixer.

They are no longer made, but are not hard to find on eBay. I have a couple and they are great for providing extra inputs.
Old 14th December 2002
  #19
Lives for gear
 
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hi albert , thx for your advice , is it you on that website ???
wow , well educated musician , i am gonna lend it a ear later on , have 2 go now , thx yall & peace
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