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Where do you get most of your clients? I'm sinking!
Old 9th August 2004
  #1
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Tibbon's Avatar
Where do you get most of your clients? I'm sinking!

Where do you end up getting most of your clients? I've experienced a slump in business lately, and i have no idea what they best way to bring in some fresh business is. I've flyered Boston on and off, but it seems to do little good. I really am in a bad spot and don't have they funds to kick out some major magazine advertising, or even in the local musician 'zines.

Have you guys had good expereinces contacting local record companies to encourage their bands to record with you? I do all type of work, including voiceover and commercial stuff, and i'd really like to expand, but i'm in a hard place and really stuck right now doing rock bands with tiny budgets. I have a decent overhead each month from my sluttyness and I find myself selling gear each month or make rent/bills which isn't good at all!

Help a slut out! I'm a pretty well set up place, and can do 2" or Protools HD work, and I have a good space for tracking. I'm a little lacking on outboard recently, because alot has been sold to make rent, which isn't good. I'm near the point of panicing. Too many musicians around Boston are going to the $20/hr basement studios, and I just can't deal with those rates, because I have too much invested. I mean just my DA convertors cost more than some of these places entire mic cabinet (or rather shoebox), but alot of the people around here are more than happy to settle for this crappy quality. We have never had problems with clients not liking our work, but just them not having money. Our rates are between $40-$50/hr which I feel is a great deal for the equipment we have and the people that we have. We are just about unable to pay out engineers right now, and people balk at our rates constantly, and we are always feeling screwed by clients in weird ways. Help?!?!? We kinda skipped a few steps on the way up (interning, etc.. we just ended up doing a MASSIVE upgrade on our home studios and ended up here..) so we are a little lost for what to do in this situation..
Old 9th August 2004
  #2
Guest
Guest
Have you considered working with those cheap rooms.
If you have a nice space they may give up some drum tracking buisness OR rental of that nice mic collection.

Do you rent your space out to freelance guys?


Just some ideas.

D
Old 9th August 2004
  #3
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Tibbon's Avatar
Yea, right now i'll rent out anything, or let anyone come in as long as I don't have to babysit them and show them how to use protools or 2" as opposed to whatever they are used to.

It seems that if a potential person comes in the studio there's a 80% chance that they will book time, but it's just 2 problems... getting them there to start, and getting them to spend enough.. because so many have barely a grand to spend on a whole CD, and can only afford to do a song or two due to that constraint. I've started taking credit cards to fix this problem, but one client's already maxxed his in doing so, and i feel bad letting people do that.
Old 9th August 2004
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Owning a facility is not a good business investment. Being a producer type, when things are slow, I take a vacation. Or, I do spec deals for talented "maybe's" hoping one will hit. That's right, work for free. It always generates repeat/paying work for me. I own all my gear (not the bank), so I can afford to do this.
Old 9th August 2004
  #5
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Tibbon's Avatar
The problem is that working for free doesn't pay my loans, rent, or rent at home... or put food on the table.

I'm always leary of spec deals, because musicians in Boston are so scared of actual binding contracts and lawyers from what i've seen. They are a weird bunch here!
Old 9th August 2004
  #6
Gear Maniac
check your pm

i may have some business for u
Old 9th August 2004
  #7
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Jose Mrochek's Avatar
 

umm I'm guessing you don't engineer ? If this is the case, I think your problem is on who is engineering. I personaly would book a place for WHO is running the board, not the board. I think you have two options. Either sell some stuff and become a basement type of place like you said, or invest in having a sort of well known engineer who is always booked to be a sort of house engineer. Even if that means that all the money you earn goes to him for a while, that will certainly make your place famous, once you reach that level.. you will be able to charge the big bucks. But then again I suck in business thats why I do music heh
Old 9th August 2004
  #8
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Tibbon's Avatar
I do some degree of engineering there (about 20% of it), and the other guy does the rest. We are getting between known as engineers... it's just a slow progression, I like the idea of getting someone better known in there though..

Any other good places to advertize or people that you constantly contact for business( A&R people at local companires, ad agencies, etc...)
Old 9th August 2004
  #9
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rynugz007's Avatar
 

It sounds like you dont have the clientele to keep up with your high overhead. I noticed you have a 69' plexi and a hand wired ac30 as well as some germino's. How do you justify owning amps like these when most of the musicians you record are short on cash and short on talent? Unless you're a badass guitar player yourself and you just like having them around for your own amusement. Is the studio a business investment only or are you in it for the love? Is the boston scene really that bad? I think to get the kinda artists your looking for you'll need to be connected with someone who has more credibility than yourself.
Old 9th August 2004
  #10
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by rynugz007
It sounds like you dont have the clientele to keep up with your high overhead. I noticed you have a 69' plexi and a hand wired ac30 as well as some germino's. How do you justify owning amps like these when most of the musicians you record are short on cash and short on talent? Unless you're a badass guitar player yourself and you just like having them around for your own amusement. Is the studio a business investment only or are you in it for the love? Is the boston scene really that bad? I think to get the kinda artists your looking for you'll need to be connected with someone who has more credibility than yourself.
Perhaps you are right. The main engineer also does quite a bit of session work on the side with the amps, and we try to make it a selling point of ours that you won't find a better guitar/amp collection in this price range (or perhaps any reasonable range) around Boston. But yea, we do consider ourselves to be pretty good players, and make serious note of our guitar tones. We are never in the situation where our house amps are worse off than the ones the clients have, which is good, because they bring in some really bad stuff.

To me, i'm on the fence if it's an investment or for the love. What i'd really love to do is be able to pay rent, so i don't have to put a Germino on eBay this next month. Actually if you think the amp collection is sick, you should see the vintage guitar collection that the other engineer has.

I agree that we need to find someone better connected, but basically I wonder how I can do this well. While the website needs some work right now (about to upload that tomorrow), I try to get out there and let as many people in Boston know about the studio as possible, and flyer at all the clubs and colleges. I'd figure that advertising in a magazine or two locally could help, but I really need a small record company to start seeing us and kicking clients in our direction for their first CDs on their label.
Old 9th August 2004
  #11
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Tibbon's Avatar
Also the reason for having such equipment, is the fact that I'm trying to set ourselves apart in any way possible from 'other' boston studios, and certainly give reason for someone not to go to a basement studio. I don't know of any other studios in the area that have great amp or guitar collections off the top of my head (although i know there's one or two). I'd rather do everything in my power right now, to get that little bit much more slutty, because I do have some people point out on occasion that we don't have se much 'analogue' and outboard gear as some other places, even though they are mainly using really cheap stuff, and it's poorly wired up. Not too many people here do anything except the stock Digi convertors for example, but we've got out DAC-1 and AD16 which sound great, and our monitoring really gives us a clear view of what's happening. The stereo subs constantly have enough to impress the hip hop guys, without us having to crank things up. That's the only problem with just using NS-10's... some clients need to hear a little thump, even though you don't need to hear to to mix well.

I'd really like to set my self further ahead, so that with our engineering (which we are very slowly getting more and more high profile things... including one thing that we are hoping for a Grammy nomination that our engineer did!), people have no choice but to come to us. Too many Berklee kids carry around mboxes. We just can't have people saying 'oh, i know someone that can do that in their dorm for free, and i don't need to pay $50/hr'

i'm probably not making snse right now, but i'm a little tired tonight... as i've have little sleep this weekend.
Old 9th August 2004
  #12
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally posted by Tibbon

I agree that we need to find someone better connected, but basically I wonder how I can do this well. While the website needs some work right now (about to upload that tomorrow), I try to get out there and let as many people in Boston know about the studio as possible, and flyer at all the clubs and colleges. I'd figure that advertising in a magazine or two locally could help, but I really need a small record company to start seeing us and kicking clients in our direction for their first CDs on their label. [/B]
besides my offer I now a women who deals with alot of artist in the area she might be able to help you out. i know for sure she could get some business, if she is impressed with your work. if you give me a call tomorrow i'll put you in contact with her.
Old 9th August 2004
  #13
Cant' you try to float some dollars out of rich coledge kids wallets? Surely they form bands? Create a special 'student rate" perhaps? Get that in the MIT & HARVARD student gazette...???

Perhaps it's time you concider doing some 'not so hard ball' spec deals - just to make the studio look busy...
Old 9th August 2004
  #14
Deleted User
Guest
A great technique in marketing is that you can always look at things from your clients persepctive.

What do they really want? And what can you offer them?

One of the main things that people respond to is what experience you can offer them - not what experience you have, but what experience they have whilst using your services. What do you do currently, and what else can you do to improve it even further?

Just some thoughts . . . .

Simon
Old 9th August 2004
  #15
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Tibbon's Avatar
Re: Re: Where do you get most of your clients? I'm sinking!

Quote:
Originally posted by Labs
´

Looking at your page, gearlist, and pictures. I would say you shouldnt be so arrogant to those places. You have the 2" and protools stuff, and you have a lot of guitar stuff and monitoring, but you dont stand out over the 20-30$ an hour studio around where I live in any big way in the outboard and mic department, and believe me. Musicians mostly wont care about your guitar rig, your elaborate monitoring setup, and which kinda converters your running.

I just get a sense of a wrong focus when I read your complaints, so maybe your focus is also wrong when you advertise. If your sound is much better forcus on advertising that. Get permission to use some small song bites from artists youve recorded and drop "sample" CDs around the local rehearsal areas. That, and not your gearlist, would maybe get people to cough up the extra $

Just an idea.
Labs
You are right, my outboard sucks and for the most part is really non-existant. I'm working on the mic selection. We got a Summit MPC100 and a U87 in the other day, which are nice, but definately doesn't constitute a 'selection'.

I guess the reason I figure to push the aspect of my convertors, wiring, monitors, etc... is because from MY perspective, great outboard doesn't do much for you if you can't hear what's happening, which is what I see as a huge problem at alot of these smaller places that are monitoring through Alesis speakers, and using stock convertors on a Layla. I guess I figured that until the i/o was right, that there wasn't as much of a point of getting other stuff around it.

The guitar selection proves to be nice, just because musicians here (or at least OUR clients) rarely have nice instruments, and I figure that by having a great drum kit or two, and a ton of other instruments... you can start off having a good source. An example of how it made a different... A guy brought in 'his' cymbols that he liked. It was basically a $100 starter pack of sheet metal, and sounded as such. We mic'd it up anyway and went to recording drums. Then he wanted to know why his cymbols sounded like crap (we advised at the beginning to use the Paiste Signatures), so we switched out the cymbols, and it was much better. Same for guitars, amps, basses, etc... quite often i'm able to get the 'sound' by using good micing technique and great instruments, instead of stacks of vintage EQ's. I end up using a ton of plugins when I need to- which I agree aren't the same and it isn't very slutty, but i'd rather have a great source right now, and have to do less to it later.

I agree that our focus is wrong, we are currently trying to push the 'people' aspect of it in our other advertising. That website is currently one thing that is holding us back. Can't figure out when Dreamweaver put EE's all over the template! Just gonna use PHP instead by hand..
Old 9th August 2004
  #16
Gear Head
 

I empathize with you, Tibbon. I, too, made an attempt at running a commercial facility in Boston for 3 or so years, although I gave it up in 1999 and relocated my studio to my home. Being in the Boston scene for about ten years, I can tell you that you may be facing an uphill battle. First off, the overhead in Boston is extremely steep. Making rent alone on the crappy warheouse space I leased was a challenge just about every month. And I tried just about every marketing technique I could afford, all with fairly limited success. Flyers might have yielded a few calls over the years, but maybe just one or two clients. Specials that included some free time brought a few people in, but in the end, bands will low-ball you for everything they can get. And forget about advertising in the local mags (Northeast Performer, etc.). I spent a lot of money trying to draw clients that way, and it just wasn't worth the expense. The problem as I see it is that, as stated earlier, there are just too many people offering recording services out of their bedroom to really compete, unless you house one of the few premier producers in the area whom everyone wants to work with. Plus, I can't speak for other cities, but let's face facts: The starving musicians (without backing of some sort) here just don't have the money they need to pay for a professional production from start to finish. Someone earlier mentioned an artist trying to get a CD done for $1000. That scenario, in my experience, seemed to be the rule, rather than the exception. And your potential share of that budget is just too little revenue to run a business. The only advertising that really seemed to work for me was word of mouth, and building that up takes time.

So, you might wonder what advice I have for you. Well, I certainly don't claim to have the answers, but I will say that I don't think you should sell any of your beloved gear just to pay the landlord. You may want to consider what I have done. I got a day job to pay the bills and now only work with a few artists on a project basis in my studio. Sure, I still hope to make some money from music some day, but for now I'm just glad that I don't have to worry about where that next rent check is coming from!

Anyway, I hope I haven't been too discouraging. You may fair quite a bit better than I did, After all, I really was pretty naive in the beginning and certainly suffered from the "if you build it, they will come" mentality. And the facility I had wasn't really much to write home about. But, eventually, I just couldn't forsee any way to make a decent living from charging $30 - $40 an hour, at least not at that time or place.

Best of luck,
Chris
Old 9th August 2004
  #17
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Tibbon's Avatar
Thanks Chris. I'm glad to see that someeone else here knows my exact worries and woes of Boston. The fundamental problem seems to be the musicians here, and their budgets or lack of. I'm not sure I understand their mentality for recording really.

From my point of view, if I am in a band with three other people and want a CD that I feel can and will sell- that I think a budget between 10-20K isn't asking for too much. That's only 2.5-5K per person, and hopefully that isn't breaking the bank assuming that everyone is working elsewhere. I mean people spend how much on their instruments? All of these people act like they are professional musicians, yet 'rock' musicians I know just don't carry the same level of professonalism that ones of other genres do (Country, classical, jazz). I personally don't see the big deal in spending 10-20K on a CD that I am putting all of my heart and soul into, and will get duplicated and I'll hope to sell at least a few thousand copies at the shows, and use as a launchboard for my career. I mean face it, a record company will love you if they don't have to send your band to be recorded/re-recorded at a studio.

However I find few clients with this opinion. I've got one in the studio now, and I absolutely LOVE them. They are great. The budget isn't an issue, it's about the final product, and they have confidence that a few labels are staring at them pretty hard. The guy heading it up is a pretty seasoned musician too, and is really taking the reins well. They are willing to pay for studio musicians to play extra parts, even if they aren't 'featured' parts, and are willing to rent anything else that we need for the the recording. An extra drumkit for a different sound? No problem! More mics? They just tell me to get whatever we need.

Most rock musicians seem to want to spend more on beer/cigarates/coke/weed than they are on recording.

I like the idea of a day job, and i've actually been considering it for a while. None of the musicians here wake up before noon (unlike in a nice city like Nashville where the day starts nice and early).
Old 9th August 2004
  #18
Gear Head
 

Ah, yes, I am quite familiar with the budget problem you speak of. What a lot of potential clients just don't understand is that recording services are just that--services. It's easy for bands to understand that in order to put out a CD they will have to put up the $1200 - $1500 for the actual pressing. But, then it's almost as if they assume that the recording part can be done on the cheap, since it's not a tangible product--it's a service. And as for mastering, they often feel quite comfortable with the mixing studio Finalizing the hell out of the master and calling it a day (hey, as long as it's loud, right?).

I don't really see this problem getting any better, at least not around here. Jules mentioned targeting rich college students. Well, I tried that approach and found that if they've got $5000 to spend, then they feel more inclined to buy an MBox or whatever and give it a shot on their own.

On the upside, one area where you might get a leg up is the fact that you have a 2" machine. I used to record a number of punk/emo/ska type bands which would have loved to have been recording to analog. Maybe you can try pushing your facility as a tracking place for these bands. Your rates seem reasonable to me, and maybe some of these kids would be willing to spend the money to at least get their drums and bass tracked to tape. Then you could transfer it to Pro Tools and maybe even get some overdub and mixing work out of it.

Just some thoughts,
Chris
Old 9th August 2004
  #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adler
I got a day job to pay the bills and now only work with a few artists on a project basis in my studio.
Exactly, what I do.

More people should do it - and use their free time to do something with their whole soul and without commercial interest.

There are too many freaks, who don´t know the difference between a well stocked Manley Rack and Behringer stuff.
Old 9th August 2004
  #20
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mersisblue's Avatar
 

here's couple of Ideas

Interns - If your engineers / secretary for time cut back no one likes to but You have to do what you have to do

Deals - promotions that benefit you by ensuring bussiness , like buy 2 5 hour sessions get one free

student deals - great ideas jules push it

Establish a bussiness leader - or president
and have them deal with clients face to face as much as possiable and if you see them maxing out their cards cut them a deal , you got to look out for the regulars give a little back on on slow hours/ days

dont have such a hateful view of basement studios see them as useful But inferior
Old 9th August 2004
  #21
Gear Addict
 

You might take another crack at your website, especially if you have downtime. Your gear list is impressive, but if I didn't know enough to be impressed by the items on the list, i would come away with the impression that you were another two-guys-with-a-basement outfit.

I would suggest redesigning the website around some very nice, vibey photos, and a paragraph or two explaining your strengths (your approach to getting that great sound, etc). And maybe ditch the biking stuff - makes it look like the studio is kind of a hobby. If it has to stay, it can be off in its own corner, not mixed in.
Old 9th August 2004
  #22
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by jajjguy
You might take another crack at your website, especially if you have downtime. Your gear list is impressive, but if I didn't know enough to be impressed by the items on the list, i would come away with the impression that you were another two-guys-with-a-basement outfit.

I would suggest redesigning the website around some very nice, vibey photos, and a paragraph or two explaining your strengths (your approach to getting that great sound, etc). And maybe ditch the biking stuff - makes it look like the studio is kind of a hobby. If it has to stay, it can be off in its own corner, not mixed in.
Yea, I wanna ditch the bike stuff but the man with his name on most of the stuff is a freak about it.
Old 9th August 2004
  #23
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DirkB's Avatar
 

Re: Re: Where do you get most of your clients? I'm sinking!

From looking at your site, I don't get the feeling you've got an edge over anyone knowing what he's doing. No disrespect, but it looks like a place where no serious recording has been done (yet). If you have, cool, I'm just giving you my honest feedback.

I also do this for the love of it. I have a dayjob that payswell and all the money I earn with making records and playing live with my band goes into the studio.
I pick 2-3 bands a year and make them a deal to produce their first album. Since we delivered some stuff that people liked, we've gotten some label interest and rigth now I'm finishing 14 songs that will be released nationally...
Nothing to brag about, just telling what I'm doing. There's lots of real pros surfin around here doing the recording / mixing thing for a living and I never would dare to compete with that.
On the other hand, no clock is putting pressure on us and we do it because we love the music, which in some weird way tends to get recognised and brings in money .

Good luck,
Dirk
Old 9th August 2004
  #24
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DirkB's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Adler
Ah, yes, I am quite familiar with the budget problem you speak of. What a lot of potential clients just don't understand is that recording services are just that--services. It's easy for bands to understand that in order to put out a CD they will have to put up the $1200 - $1500 for the actual pressing. But, then it's almost as if they assume that the recording part can be done on the cheap, since it's not a tangible product--it's a service. And as for mastering, they often feel quite comfortable with the mixing studio Finalizing the hell out of the master and calling it a day (hey, as long as it's loud, right?).

I don't really see this problem getting any better, at least not around here. Jules mentioned targeting rich college students. Well, I tried that approach and found that if they've got $5000 to spend, then they feel more inclined to buy an MBox or whatever and give it a shot on their own.

On the upside, one area where you might get a leg up is the fact that you have a 2" machine. I used to record a number of punk/emo/ska type bands which would have loved to have been recording to analog. Maybe you can try pushing your facility as a tracking place for these bands. Your rates seem reasonable to me, and maybe some of these kids would be willing to spend the money to at least get their drums and bass tracked to tape. Then you could transfer it to Pro Tools and maybe even get some overdub and mixing work out of it.

Just some thoughts,
Chris
I disagree. Nobody with about 2-5grand to sell out for the recording of their album gives a **** about your 2".
I found that bands that are serious about their music, don't have a problem paying §3000 to have their album produced.
BUT, you better make sure it sounds like a real album and not a demo.
And they definitely care about the mastering. In fact, I find that in the place where I live, bands are getting fed up with all the semi pro studios that all try very hard to look like a studio, but haven't produced one single decent album to back it up. So if they come to my place, they are checking me out to see if I know what I'm doing (and by all means, I'm doing nothing special at all...). And the weird thing is, that my one room small space with some carefully chosen equipment and 1 or 2 albums they heart about gets them quite eager to have me produce their album.

One more thing, since I'm just rambling along.
I think the studio charging pro hour is a thing for the past, unless your walls are covered with photo's of rockstars with their gold and platinum albums hanging next to them...

Just my §0.02,
Dirk
Old 9th August 2004
  #25
Gear Addict
 
rynugz007's Avatar
 

you need better mics and outboard. Maybe sell a couple of the 50 thousand vintage guitars or amps you guys have. Anybody thats gonna pay 50 bucks an hour for studio time is gonna know at least a thing or 2 about gear and there probably gonna run the other way when they see the only outboard you have is a behringer mic pre. Maybe grab a sytek 4-channel pre and a some more pro level utility mics that you'll definatley get a lot of use out of. (shure sm7, senn 421, beyer) I could probably name a bunch of other cool stuff as well but i'll leave that up to the more experienced slutz.
Old 9th August 2004
  #26
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zimv20's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Tibbon
Yea, I wanna ditch the bike stuff but the man with his name on most of the stuff is a freak about it.
should i read into this that there are a number of compromises going on with the business as a whole?

imo, businesses (in general) with a singular vision do better than those which are compromises. don't throw gear at a problem which is managerial in nature.
Old 9th August 2004
  #27
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
You're asking the studio owners $100k question. I've avoided some of those because I've been observing what has been happening to larger studios over the course of the last 15 years or so.

First thing is you don't EXIST to the larger community. Any business has to give it up during the formative, growth years in order to let people know who you are. You need to make yourself and your abilities known. And you may have to sacrifice income while you're doing it while the community is learning why they need you. Special deals, spec deals, going to the clubs, getting to know all the bands, etc.. Right now it looks like you're a specialty studio so market yourself as such. You have to know who your clients are - your demographic. Put a promo package together with your best mixes. Make the studio look either really polished and professional or funky and cool. Whatever will best fit your projected demographic. You may have to cut rates at least for a while. Because believe me, your prospective clients KNOW what the going rates are. But these clients are merely advertisers, that've got to be more than satisfied, even if it's at a loss at this point, so you can establish yourself. They are advertising for your real prospective clients.

Finding the demographic isn't hard. It's getting to them that's hard. Most guys either have or know someone who has a digital recording setup of some kind that'd be willing to record their band for free. They might not know enough about how band it probably sucks. That's what you've got to do. Offer them an alternative -- great guitar tones, friendly, non-hostile or unintimidating engineers and let them hear what they're missing.

My two cents in the 5 minutes I had. Gotta run!!!!
Old 10th August 2004
  #28
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Scinx's Avatar
 

Based on the website, I would never even call you to consider recording there. You either need something for the eyes to draw people (nice facility, nice outboard) or something great for the ears (past projects, quality engineer/producer, etc.)

Most people are fickle. In addition, most people dont know as much about your place as you do (so you need some method to get the greatness of your place out to them). I personally wouldnt even advertise your site until its cleaned up. The biking section must go, and the pictures section needs a revamping. In addition, I like listening to some quality audio produced at a studio to ensure Im not walking into some Ponzi scheme.

So - I would revamp the website and find some decently popular bands to record free just to get the buzz going. I think this will be an uphill climb personally.

Perhaps you need to go freelance or go in another direction.
Old 10th August 2004
  #29
krs
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krs's Avatar
 

dude those "E"s that appear all over the place are just typed right into the code! Just run the html into Textedit (or notepad) and delete them all if you can't work it out in Dreamweaver (I don't use that program, so i can't help you out).

Good luck. Quality thread.
Old 10th August 2004
  #30
Gear Maniac
oddly enough i offer you not only the business you were looking for but a connection with some of the up and coming artist in the area and ask you to call me today and as of right now you havent.

just a suggestion but if you are so desperate for business and someone is offering you business you make every effort to make that happen.
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