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Paradigm monitors... wow... Studio Monitors
Old 7th December 2002
  #1
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Paradigm monitors... wow...

Anyone heard the Paradigm mini-monitors? Man, they are fantastic for the price. I cant beleive they arent huge in our market. Pretty flat, and a really really good stereo image.
Anyone have here have a pair? For $340 a pair I dont think they can be outdone.
Old 7th December 2002
  #2
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Marshall Simmons's Avatar
 

Right now, i use a pair of paradigm studio refrence 40's

if you liked the mini monitors (i own six of them for my home theatre) You'll love the refrence 40's


The really nice thing you can do with them is bi-amp them... its a whole new level of clarity and dynamicism that you don't get with one amp.
Right now i have a solid state on the lows and a tube amp on the high's... I just really have to work on my front end a bit (probably the benchmark dac to use as a preamp and a dac)

I can't wait to start using them in my studio
Marsh
Old 8th December 2002
  #3
Don
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What other speaks are they similar to?The 40's that is..
Old 8th December 2002
  #4
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I tested them out against the B&W cmt5 (i beleive thats the model name) and the newer b&w's with the nautalus cones.

The cmt5's were no comparison (although they were a bit cheaper) and the ones with the natalus tweeter cones seemed to be to clinical in the highs, it detracted me from having an emotional experence like i did with the paradigms. I could easily see how the upper end natalus series could be good for mastering, and i would love to listent to the 800 series by b&w.

This listning test was done in the same room, same between speakers and distance to my ears. CD player was an AArgon, and a Naim integrated amp.
Old 8th December 2002
  #5
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ok--- my goof


the B&W's that were cheaper and didn't sound near as good were the DM600 series (large bookshelf)

The CDM (specifically cdm1nt) series seeemed edgie and clinical in the highs (although the midrage and low end were excellent)
Old 8th December 2002
  #6
Don
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Thanks Marsh!Today my partener was talking about checking them out{the 40's}..Are they about a $1000 or so a pair?So they are biampable!You are useing a Solidstate amp on the bottom and a Tube on the top?That would be cool because we have a Parasound solid and some Tube Manley monoblocks...I gotta go listen to some of these..The 40's are the single 6.5 or is that model the double 6.5's..I just heard about these today thats why so many questions...Thanks bud
Old 8th December 2002
  #7
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the double 6.5's

The single 6.5 is the refrence 20

I purchased mine for around 800 dollars with a pair of MIT speaker cables.... The mit's really make a difference in the low end... much tighter then with the mnster cable (what i'm using on the tops)
Old 8th December 2002
  #8
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i don't understand why more studios don't go with audiophile speakers.
Old 8th December 2002
  #9
Photo & or link?
Old 8th December 2002
  #10
Old 9th December 2002
  #11
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I have the Monitor 3's at home and I love them. They beat similar priced ($350US?) B&Ws, but the next step up (which I was unwilling (unable) to take) the B&Ws won out, for me. Whatever, I'm very happy with my home speakers.

I seem to remember reading about Mark Howard monitoring on consumer Paradigms at Teatro.
Old 9th December 2002
  #12
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They really are great speakers for the price.
Jules- get yourself a demo pair for a few days and tell us what you think.
www.paradigm.com
this link will get you right to it, though: http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...nitorSpecs.htm
Old 9th December 2002
  #13
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Paradigm mini monitors are my main speakers as well. I think they're a great value. But I have complaints. I think there isn't quite enough detail in the mids, especially the upper mids. The low end is great. And the highs are definitely there, it's those mids i have trouble with. Do you guys notice a hole in that area?

(My main comparison is with a friend's KRK V8s, which I find very clear and detailed in the mids and highs, but light on bass.)
Old 9th December 2002
  #14
Quote:
Originally posted by Marshall Simmon
i don't understand why more studios don't go with audiophile speakers.
Try telling a recording studio that they have to replace all of their stereo Brystons(which are probably fatigued) with amplifiers that are 2-3 times as much(Krell,Mark Levinson).

And these are just the mono blocks!!!

They will probably give you this look!!!

And than one of these.fuuck


Its a different animal. I dabble in both(my partner is both a mastering engineer and a audiophile dealer). I've seen studio owners eyes pop out when you bring in a stereo preamp which costs twice as much as their mic collections.

And of course even if its used, it looks as good as new(that's the audiophile world for you).

The closest you get to both worlds colliding is mastering. But from what I am seeing, since a lot of the mastering guys were former music engineers they have had no exposure to the other side either. So the mentality carries with them. They rather spend the money on the latest EQ than on a great listening system. Heck some guys master on Genelecs and NS10's!!!

Like I said, its going to take a miracle to issue the change. Heck if people are still buying CD bootlegs and downloading music than to expect things to change a stepup is a little crazy right now.

My dos centavos.
Old 9th December 2002
  #15
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i mean ****

look at some magneplanars or some revels, or even the high end B&W's

I just imagine being able to mix on a listning setup like that... you wouldn't have to work so hard to compensate for the problems of cheap speakers, which means faster and better mixes.

I would think of it as an investment with great returns. You don't have to go with a krell or a Mark levenson amp to get 99.9 percent of the quality. For instance, Marsh Designs... you can pick one of them up for around 600 dollars and its pretty darn close to a krell.

I do alot of my shopping at www.audiogon.com

you just gotta know what you want before you go there.
Marsh
Old 9th December 2002
  #16
Quote:
Originally posted by Marshall Simmon
i mean ****

look at some magneplanars or some revels, or even the high end B&W's

I just imagine being able to mix on a listning setup like that... you wouldn't have to work so hard to compensate for the problems of cheap speakers, which means faster and better mixes.

I would think of it as an investment with great returns. You don't have to go with a krell or a Mark levenson amp to get 99.9 percent of the quality. For instance, Marsh Designs... you can pick one of them up for around 600 dollars and its pretty darn close to a krell.

I do alot of my shopping at www.audiogon.com

you just gotta know what you want before you go there.
Marsh

Well I've heard the top of the line B&W Nautilus 800 and I will tell you there is no speaker i've ever heard that compares.

It comes with a price($16,000) with out the amplifiers.

But it has the smoothest and clearest midrange in any speaker(where I think most speakers suffer).

My dream is to have these as my main monitors in my new studio.

When my partner was setting up his mastering place its one of the speakers he considered. Because of his space he settled on something smaller but uncolored. The Gradient no cabinet speaker, probably the flattest speaker on the earth. Because it has no cabinet, standing waves are never a problem.

I do disagree on amps though. I think the two places where there is a difference is speakers and amplifiers. I know with amps the difference is not as pronounced but you can hear it. Some speakers just load better with certain amplifiers.
Old 10th December 2002
  #17
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My understanding is that the other budget kings are the NHT Pro's, like the Superones. They USED to have an ongoing sale
at Musicians Friend on the M-00's for only $200!

Chris
Old 10th December 2002
  #18
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THe nht's seemed very veiled to me. I honestly think the mini- monitors, or even the paradigm titans (for 180 pr) are much better then the nhts


For good amps at relatively cheep prices, check out Rotel, NAD, Aargon, Parasound.


I really love the sound of the Magneplanar ribbon speakers, but they require quite a bit of space to work in. They aren't that expensive. about 1500 for a pair of the 1.6ers and 3000 for the 3.5 (i think thats the model)

Georgeous sound, and the transients will knock you on your ass. You can really hear how a compressor effects the sound.

When i test speakers out, i like to listen to a cd i made of a drum kit that wasn't processed at all. A matched pair of schoeps condensers overhead and behind the drummer. No compression, no eq. That and an unproccessed acoustic guitar are great for listning to the quality of speakers in a real mix situation.

Finished cd's are nice to listen to, but unless you REALLY know the cd, its hard to make a judgement.

Amps do make a huge difference. Total power in general is not that big of a deal unless you are going to play speakers crazy loud. In my configureation with the refrence 40's i have 90 watts going to the lows, and 35 going to the highs and i've never heard any transient compression or distortion (at 85db about 5 ft away from speakers)

If you want to play louder then that, sure get a bigger amp. The most important thing is the quality, not the rated watts. I've heard killer 15 watt systems and really crappy 2000 watt systems.


Thrill factor--- have you heard any of the sonus farber or the Revel speaker systems? Those are absolutely wonderful, but way out of my price range at the moment. The midrange clarity and the soundstaging is scary... its so realistic.


BTW--- the paradigms made me cry in the showroom listning to jaques lossier trio, the B&W's did not. Emotional response is a big factor too me... its something that i can't really describe in technical terms, but some speakers grab me sonically, and some do not. I'm sure the nautalus line is quite a bit different then the cdm line, but the highs and the lows seemed too detached to me and i couldn't focus on the music. That might be part of the emotional equasion; how well the speaker acts as a cohesive unit.

Sorry i'm kinda babbling right now... Need more human contact
I hope i helped.
marshall
Old 10th December 2002
  #19
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How about Adcom amplifiers?

Chris
Old 10th December 2002
  #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marshall Simmon
i don't understand why more studios don't go with audiophile speakers.
Mastering studios more often have audiophile speakers.

I remember talking with Glenn Zelniker who runs Z-Systems -- he's able to put better components in his high-fi stuff than in his pro-audio stuff because high-fi customers will pay for it, vs. us pro audio cheapskates.

I'm always surprised, though, at how little studio owners budget for monitors. Given the overall cost of a studio, reserving such thin little slices of the pie for the speakers seems nuts.

-MattiMattMatt
Old 10th December 2002
  #21
Jax
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Most mastering engineers I've communicated with use Duntech's or Dunlavy's. Those run in the $75k and up range and I'm not sure if they are considered audiophile or strictly mastering tools.
Old 10th December 2002
  #22
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Adcom's are great! I set up a high end system for my brother (low end of the high end) and i gave him an adcom amp and preamp with a set of paradigm titans, and they sound wonderful together.

You can also find them pretty cheep

here are some current prices on great amps from audiogon.com

adcom gfa 5400 450$
rotel RB960bx 280$
nad c350 299$
adcom gfa 555 420$

marsh A400s 1275$
electrocomaniet ecl4 1650$
plinius 8200 1100$

those last few are higher end, but a major improvement over the first 4, but all of those are going to be a huge improvement over the standard brystons and other pro amps that you get.



Once again good speakers to check out include

B&W
Paradigm
Sonus Farber
Revel
Red Rose
JM Labs
Quad
Magnepan


Marsh
Old 10th December 2002
  #23
Quote:
Originally posted by Marshall Simmon

Thrill factor--- have you heard any of the sonus farber or the Revel speaker systems? Those are absolutely wonderful, but way out of my price range at the moment. The midrange clarity and the soundstaging is scary... its so realistic.
.
marshall

Hi Marshall,

Yes i did check out Sonus Farber and Revel. The problems I've noticed with audiophile speakers, is that they aren't really designed to handle "popular" music. If you've gone to trade shows(this year it was in NYC) they only play Jazz or classical through their speakers(I understand that the majority of the audiophiles are middle aged with some money). Put some rock or rap through it and the speakers start to choke up(as well as the manufacturers.heh

The 2 speakers which I have heard where all music through them sounds great , are the top B&W NAutilus 800 and the new Dynaudio C2-C4. But as you probably know most audiophiles hate these companies past designs. They are not hifi enough(which probably explains why you see these B&W's and Dynaudio in the studios). In my opinion though, they got it right with these 2 speakers.

Marshall it sounds like you ears favor ribbon designs. I guess you like a smooth top on your speaker designs?
Old 10th December 2002
  #24
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THe dunteks and the dunlavys are audiophile speakers, but they are really expensive as you said. THere have been sevral in stereophile and the absolute sound on them... Good stuff to drool over, great to listen too, impossible to purchase.

I personally was trying to keep this thread towards stuff that we could purchase, although gearlust is alwasy a wonderful thing
Marshall
Old 10th December 2002
  #25
Jax
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Don't get me wrong, I didn't mention the two Dun's because I thought someone here could afford them. The art of mastering came up and the most oft used speakers weren't even mentioned, so I felt it was my duty to point out another tool that helps mastering engineers hear more detail than we can ever hope to on our crappy pro audio monitors.

BTW, ME's also mention that the HF drivers on either Dun blow out alot. Personally I would be more than a little pissed to pay 75 grand for a speaker with poor durability!
Old 10th December 2002
  #26
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I've gone through the phase where i equated brightness with clarity, (what i think that the pro audio community is going through right now with all these new super bright condensers) and i guess my ears have kinda matured (atleast i like to think so)

I like ribbon designs in general, but most of the hybrids that i've heard i didn't like (sls, martin logan (elextrostatic hybrid) ect ect)

It just didn't seem like a whole system to me, more like this is the tweeter, and this is the bass. I enjoy the magneplanars because of the fact that its all ribbon. It seems like the bass drivers can't handle transients and the general speed of the ribbon driver.

This is probably why i didn't like the lower end B&W's with the natalus tweeter system... Yea the highs were georgous, but it didn't gel and jive with the bass and midbass.
YEs, the paradigms with the system that i have, are not as detailed as the b&W, but it jels better. This may also be because of the amp too (more then likely)

I am planning on moving to a higher end amp soon., but preamps and mics are more fun!!!!


Marsh
Old 10th December 2002
  #27
Quote:
Originally posted by Marshall Simmon
THe dunteks and the dunlavys are audiophile speakers, but they are really expensive as you said. THere have been sevral in stereophile and the absolute sound on them... Good stuff to drool over, great to listen too, impossible to purchase.

I personally was trying to keep this thread towards stuff that we could purchase, although gearlust is alwasy a wonderful thing
Marshall
I wouldn't say impossible. I think there are a lot of great deals out there in speakers, especially if you want some of the "bigs".

There are plenty of wives out there who feel their husbands audiophile habits are out of control.

Especially when in the living room there are these huge 7ft speakers(Duntech or Dunleavy) that take up so much space.tut


By the way Dunleavy just went out of business, so if anyone wants his speakers, I am sure you can find them cheaply.
Old 10th December 2002
  #28
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We can talk about crazy high end if you'd like


How about the pipedream system
http://www.nearfieldacoustics.com/

(btw its a design concept that i really am interested in, line array speaker systems... not to be confused with speakers in a di'appolito design)

or the high end sphereical horn systems
http://www.avantgardeusa.com/home.html


I haven't heard these so i can't comment on the sound quality.

but damn they are pretty

Marshall
Old 12th December 2002
  #29
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mdbeh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hi Marshall,

Yes i did check out Sonus Farber and Revel. The problems I've noticed with audiophile speakers, is that they aren't really designed to handle "popular" music. If you've gone to trade shows(this year it was in NYC) they only play Jazz or classical through their speakers(I understand that the majority of the audiophiles are middle aged with some money). Put some rock or rap through it and the speakers start to choke up(as well as the manufacturers.heh
As someone who's had a pair of Sonus Fabers for years, I can second this. They sound wonderful for classical and jazz, but when I play rock through them, they sound hopelessly tinny. I'm not sure why that's happening technically, but I've noticed it over and over again.
Old 12th December 2002
  #30
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Hey,
Since this went kind of high end:Do you have any experience with PMC AML-1 monitors? http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/amlp.htm
I am very interested in these but have found very few people with hands on experience. Any thoughts?
Benjy

btw
The Norwegian 'Electrocompaniet' gear is quite amazing. They have a mind blowing CD player. I never knew a CD player could actually sound like this. It's nuts.
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