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Against Me! - New Wave/modern Bad Religion
Old 9th March 2008
  #1
Against Me! - New Wave/modern Bad Religion

Just wondering if anyone had any inside information on the recording of the latest Against Me! record or the more recent Bad Religion records. I have a band coming in Tuesday with a similar vibe I'd like to capture. To me it sounds like Orange amps turned up really loud and drums with a lot of nice room reverb, but I guess my main concern is how do you get a singer with such a raspy voice to stand out so well in the mix? With such a heavy guitar sound, how would you go about tracking guitars (there are three guitars players, two electric and one acoustic I believe). Would you use 2 or more microphones on each amp, like a Shure SM57 and MD421 together, or maybe a SM57 up close and a C414 a few feet back (I tend to think 414s sound a little weak on electric guitar) or some other approach?

My vocal microphone selection is:
TLM 103, SM7B, Charter Oak SA538, C414

Others:
MD421s, SM57s, KM184s, SM81s, C451s, D112, e602, MK-012-01s

To get that trashy room sound I was thinking of using the SA538 as overheads with a C414 somewhere in the room squashed pretty hard and close miking the other drums, SM57s on snare, MD421s on toms, e602 on kick since it has a little more snap than the D112.

I don't usually record this heavy of music, I do a lot of alternative country/indie rock, is it generally more compressed on the drums? Sorry, a lot of questions, but there seem to be a lot of people here more familiar with this territory so I seek some guidance.
Old 9th March 2008
  #2
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Kadden Heart's Avatar
 

i don't have any particular info on those records.
though recently i heard bad religions new one "new maps of hell" was done ITB,..?

i split the guitar signal so i have a DI for possible reamping later, any heavy ap you can find, cranked up works for me
421 directly on the cone, dead center, on the grill, 57 next to it, off center, facing the cone, i us ea colorful preamp to tape,... minimal or no compression of guitars in the mix (it leaves a bigger sound in my opinion)

the drums always seem to be key in my opinion.
close mic it all
421's on all the toms, the capsule facing where the stick hits the head, maybe 2 inches above each tom, diganolly facing the center.
57 on snare top and bottom int he same maner.

your d112 in the kick will work, i stick it dead center, where the beater hits, like 4-5 inches from the beater head,... pull it back, or push it off center for a more boomy kick,..but generally you just want a loud ass clacky thud. and i like hearing that plastic, make sure the drummer tries using the plastic or wooden side of his beater.

i use 2- akg 414's 11/2 -2 feet above cymbals, pulled to the outside of them (outside of the drummer) i use compression to tape to design some transient,..carve the lows out to use as pure cymbals,
and if you have the IO close mic the hi-hat and ride also.

i pound my kick and snare mics hard to tape,
the kick doens't need any dynamics in my opinion, just automate the level if you have to in the mix,..

i also drop some smaples with more high end in the mix instead of bringing up the natural high end.

jusr my .02
Old 9th March 2008
  #3
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Billy Bush's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upinflames View Post
Just wondering if anyone had any inside information on the recording of the latest Against Me! record or the more recent Bad Religion records. I have a band coming in Tuesday with a similar vibe I'd like to capture. To me it sounds like Orange amps turned up really loud and drums with a lot of nice room reverb, but I guess my main concern is how do you get a singer with such a raspy voice to stand out so well in the mix? With such a heavy guitar sound, how would you go about tracking guitars (there are three guitars players, two electric and one acoustic I believe). Would you use 2 or more microphones on each amp, like a Shure SM57 and MD421 together, or maybe a SM57 up close and a C414 a few feet back (I tend to think 414s sound a little weak on electric guitar) or some other approach?

My vocal microphone selection is:
TLM 103, SM7B, Charter Oak SA538, C414

Others:
MD421s, SM57s, KM184s, SM81s, C451s, D112, e602, MK-012-01s

To get that trashy room sound I was thinking of using the SA538 as overheads with a C414 somewhere in the room squashed pretty hard and close miking the other drums, SM57s on snare, MD421s on toms, e602 on kick since it has a little more snap than the D112.

I don't usually record this heavy of music, I do a lot of alternative country/indie rock, is it generally more compressed on the drums? Sorry, a lot of questions, but there seem to be a lot of people here more familiar with this territory so I seek some guidance.

Hi,

Can't speak for the Bad Religion record, but I can help on the Against Me! one.

The drums were tracked at Paramount in Hollywood:
Kik - ATM25, FET47, NS10
SNR - Josephson es22
SNR - HEIL PR20
TOMS - Jospehson es22
OH - C24
Rooms - Blue Bottle, Royer 121's

Tom's guitar was mostly a ric split into his fender twin and my matchless dc30. The twin had a fet47 and a sm57, the dc30 had a heil pr30 and a 57. Both hit TG2 preamps.

The heavier guitar was James' - that was his goldtop Les Paul split to his marshall 100w and my Diezel VH4. The Marshall was mic'ed with a Royer 121 and a 57 and the Diezel was mic'ed with a PR30 and a 57. Again, both were TG2 preamps.

Tom's vocal chain was a VM1-KHE into a TG channel and a Summit TLA100. The VM1 beat out all other mics not only because it sounded amazing but it was the only one that could handle the sheer volume of his voice!!

Hope this helps!

Billy Bush
Old 9th March 2008
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bush View Post
Hi,

Can't speak for the Bad Religion record, but I can help on the Against Me! one.

The drums were tracked at Paramount in Hollywood:
Kik - ATM25, FET47, NS10
SNR - Josephson es22
SNR - HEIL PR20
TOMS - Jospehson es22
OH - C24
Rooms - Blue Bottle, Royer 121's

Tom's guitar was mostly a ric split into his fender twin and my matchless dc30. The twin had a fet47 and a sm57, the dc30 had a heil pr30 and a 57. Both hit TG2 preamps.

The heavier guitar was James' - that was his goldtop Les Paul split to his marshall 100w and my Diezel VH4. The Marshall was mic'ed with a Royer 121 and a 57 and the Diezel was mic'ed with a PR30 and a 57. Again, both were TG2 preamps.

Tom's vocal chain was a VM1-KHE into a TG channel and a Summit TLA100. The VM1 beat out all other mics not only because it sounded amazing but it was the only one that could handle the sheer volume of his voice!!

Hope this helps!

Billy Bush
You wouldn't happen to know the bass signal chain would you?
Old 9th March 2008
  #5
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Kadden Heart's Avatar
 

billy bush,

aso you don't happen to know if they did some sort of sample augmenting on the toms in mixing or whateve,r...

the beginning (i forget the name of the song) just has this tom fill,..and i swear they shake my car, like there's 40-50hz oscillators runing through all of them,...
crrrqaazzyyyy

well done record, thanks for the info
Old 9th March 2008
  #6
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Wes Kuhnley's Avatar
 

Just gotta chime in here. Against Me! fukkin wails, and the new record sounds great. I just wish they still had the balls they had on "As the Eternal Cowboy".
Old 9th March 2008
  #7
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Billy Bush's Avatar
 

bass chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB872 View Post
You wouldn't happen to know the bass signal chain would you?
It was Andrew's P-Bass into a vintage SVT head and 8x10 cabinet.

The chain was P-Bass > Evil Twin > PCP DISTRO > SVT and also into a SANSAMP RBP-1.

The cabinet had a BLUE Mouse and a Jospehson es22 on it. They were blended together to taste..

The Evil Twin went into a 1073 and a LA-2A

The BLUE went into a VIPRE

The es22 went into an API i think..

Regards,

Billy Bush
Old 9th March 2008
  #8
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Billy Bush's Avatar
 

Toms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadden Heart View Post
billy bush,

aso you don't happen to know if they did some sort of sample augmenting on the toms in mixing or whateve,r...

the beginning (i forget the name of the song) just has this tom fill,..and i swear they shake my car, like there's 40-50hz oscillators runing through all of them,...
crrrqaazzyyyy

well done record, thanks for the info
Thanks for the kind words.. It helps when Rich Costey mixes it and Butch produces it naturally!

No sample augmenting on the toms during mixing - they were both amazing sounding Pork Pie toms.. Super deep tone on both.

I used a Shadow Hills Mono Gama and an API 550b eq for each tom.

Regards,

Billy Bush
Old 10th March 2008
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bush View Post
It was Andrew's P-Bass into a vintage SVT head and 8x10 cabinet.

The chain was P-Bass > Evil Twin > PCP DISTRO > SVT and also into a SANSAMP RBP-1.

The cabinet had a BLUE Mouse and a Jospehson es22 on it. They were blended together to taste..

The Evil Twin went into a 1073 and a LA-2A

The BLUE went into a VIPRE

The es22 went into an API i think..

Regards,

Billy Bush
thx Billy.
Old 10th March 2008
  #10
Thanks Billy, I don't have any of those microphones except the SM57s...if Against Me! came back and all you had to work with were those microphones and 8 channels of Millenia preamps and a Sony DMXR100 console?

Did you reamp the guitars into two amps or just split the signal and record them at the same time?

Also, could you explain the bass...the Evil Twin is a version of a Twin Reverb right?
Old 10th March 2008
  #11
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Kadden Heart's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upinflames View Post
Thanks Billy, I don't have any of those microphones except the SM57s...if Against Me! came back and all you had to work with were those microphones and 8 channels of Millenia preamps and a Sony DMXR100 console?

Did you reamp the guitars into two amps or just split the signal and record them at the same time?

Also, could you explain the bass...the Evil Twin is a version of a Twin Reverb right?
jut random, but i've really been considering buyin the dmxr-100 that's my favorite damn digital desk ever.

great to see such insight into against me's latest.
i'm watching the dvd from "new wave" right now
Old 10th March 2008
  #12
Special Guest
 
Billy Bush's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upinflames View Post
Thanks Billy, I don't have any of those microphones except the SM57s...if Against Me! came back and all you had to work with were those microphones and 8 channels of Millenia preamps and a Sony DMXR100 console?

Did you reamp the guitars into two amps or just split the signal and record them at the same time?

Also, could you explain the bass...the Evil Twin is a version of a Twin Reverb right?
I split the guitars with a PCP DISTRO and recorded them at the same time submixing all the mics to one track, adjusting levels to fit the part and song.

The Evil Twin is a tube DI I borrowed to check out.. It's pretty cool but I've since used the A-Designs REDDI instead..

Regards,

Billy Bush
Old 10th March 2008
  #13
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amishsixstringe's Avatar
 

COOOL. I've been going to Against Me shows since Axl Rose just came out. Very cool guys. They did seem to have more attitude when they were young...but Sire calmed them down a little bit with money. Still see them every time they're anywhere in Ohio.


Neil
Old 10th March 2008
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
The Evil Twin is a tube DI I borrowed to check out.. It's pretty cool but I've since used the A-Designs REDDI instead..

Regards,

Billy Bush
Just wondering, now that you're using the REDDI, if you still feed into the Sansamp RBI like you did with the Evil Twin on the Against Me bass tracks.
Old 10th March 2008
  #15
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Billy Bush's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB872 View Post
Just wondering, now that you're using the REDDI, if you still feed into the Sansamp RBI like you did with the Evil Twin on the Against Me bass tracks.
Yep, the REDDI is the clean DI and the Sansamp is for some extra crunch.

Also forgot to shout out the Prescription Electronics Depth Charge which was the distorted sound on some of the tracks..

Regards,
Billy Bush
Old 10th March 2008
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bush View Post
Yep, the REDDI is the clean DI and the Sansamp is for some extra crunch.

Also forgot to shout out the Prescription Electronics Depth Charge which was the distorted sound on some of the tracks..

Regards,
Billy Bush
Usually I record the REDDI and the Sansamp on their own seperate tracks and mix to taste. I'll have to try the Sansamp directly after the REDDI though.
Old 10th March 2008
  #17
Billy, when tracking the guitars I'm assuming the SM57s were up close on the grill, but how far back did you place the PR30s and FET47. Seems like a strong endorsement for the Heil microphone, I'll have to give them a try.
Old 11th March 2008
  #18
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Billy Bush's Avatar
 

gtrs

Quote:
Originally Posted by upinflames View Post
Billy, when tracking the guitars I'm assuming the SM57s were up close on the grill, but how far back did you place the PR30s and FET47. Seems like a strong endorsement for the Heil microphone, I'll have to give them a try.
The PR30 and FET were right on the grill and the 57 was backed up an inch or two so it's capsule was phase accurate with the other mic.

Regards,

Billy Bush
Old 11th March 2008
  #19
Thanks Billy, I don't have a PR30 or Fet47 but I'll try it with a C414 and a SM57.

The way you tracked the guitars is pretty interesting, did you bus everything in Pro Tools or in a DAW or submix everything to tape while recording? You had four microphones on two different amps, but all the same part, so how did you go about panning?
Old 11th March 2008
  #20
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Billy Bush's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by upinflames View Post
Thanks Billy, I don't have a PR30 or Fet47 but I'll try it with a C414 and a SM57.

The way you tracked the guitars is pretty interesting, did you bus everything in Pro Tools or in a DAW or submix everything to tape while recording? You had four microphones on two different amps, but all the same part, so how did you go about panning?
I returned to channels on the desk and bussed them all to one track in pro tools while we tracked.

One thing to keep in mind is that you have to spend some time checking phase and polarity on all the chains and amps - some guitar amps and cabinets are reverse polarity.

Hope this helps!

Billy Bush
Old 2nd May 2008
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

The Bestest!

Billy Bush!

He's a freakin genius. I had the pleasure of tracking with him not to long ago... and he's the MAN.

One of the nicest most talented people i have ever met.



-jason
Old 2nd May 2008
  #22
Special Guest
 
Billy Bush's Avatar
 

Awww... Thanks Jason!

Did i mention I'm in the process of building a mix/overdub room in eagle rock? when are you gonna get started on your record!?!?!??!?!?!?!

b
Old 2nd May 2008
  #23
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Wes Kuhnley's Avatar
 

Billy, you going to be working on the next AM! record?
Old 2nd May 2008
  #24
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Billy Bush's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Kuhnley View Post
Billy, you going to be working on the next AM! record?
I hope so! It was a blast working with them and I would love to see what they come up with to follow up New Wave. I'm sure they won't be ready until late in the year.
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