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Controlling Transients? Condenser Microphones
Old 23rd February 2008
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
If you say so. A lot of people still ride vocals on the way in. It's not that big of a deal.
There are certainly people that can, but who does it now and more importantly why when we have 115dB of dynamic range?
Old 23rd February 2008
  #32
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarkham View Post
Digital clipping is a hard wall . when you clip ... things get pretty harsh pretty
fast.

Tape is not a hard wall ... it follows what's known as the ferro-magnetic hysteresis
saturation curve .. which looks like this ...



Rather than a "brick wall", tape has a slope that "softens" the effect of saturation ..
sometimes in pleasing ways.

There are several plug-ins which emulate this curve ... even amongst various
types of tape and tape machines (where there are two ferro-magnetic
systems .... the tape head .. and the tape itself).

The newest ( and I think most accurate ) is the Digi Reel Tape ... it's pretty
darn accurate...

jeff
Haha! I love those curves! I'm doing my MSc. in Palaeomagnetism and generate curves like this all the time, but had no idea that they had any meaning in the world of audio.

Old 23rd February 2008
  #33
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robot gigante's Avatar
Why ride on the way in? So you don't have to do it later. Especially if you're riding into a compressor. Plus you have the vocalist in the room- it's interactive. Bob Ohlsson has posted about that too, and he's right imho. Not the technique for everybody, but it works for me and for a few people I know.
Old 23rd February 2008
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post
Why ride on the way in? So you don't have to do it later. Especially if you're riding into a compressor. Plus you have the vocalist in the room- it's interactive. Bob Ohlsson has posted about that too, and he's right imho. Not the technique for everybody, but it works for me and for a few people I know.
So what if you need to drop in on one word or a phrase? Is that where the automation comes in?
Old 23rd February 2008
  #35
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Have you tried one of the Transient Designer type plugins or the rack system? Maybe that would mold it the way you would like, the UAD-1 Transient designer is pretty nice. Once you get it the way you want, then you can turn it up.
cam
Old 23rd February 2008
  #36
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robot gigante's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB View Post
So what if you need to drop in on one word or a phrase? Is that where the automation comes in?
I'm not sure what you mean by where the automation comes in- maybe I wasn't clear on what I'm talking about- it's simply riding the input gain as the vocalist sings. If riding into a compressor the goal is to keep the dynamics more or less in the sweet spot of the compressor.

I'm not talking about massive changes in gain, so dropping in on a word or phrase or comping is no bigger of a deal than it normally would be than if you tracked without riding it. If anything it might be a little easier since the dynamics are more consistent. And of course there are those vocalists that don't need rides at all.

Automation I do later. I'd never try to ride drums or anything like that on the way in of course, since it's practically impossible to predict what's going to happen there! I'll use automation during mixdown to even things out there (if the track calls for it).
Old 23rd February 2008
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante View Post

I'm not talking about massive changes in gain, so dropping in on a word or phrase or comping is no bigger of a deal than it normally would be than if you tracked without riding it.
I'm not saying you are wrong but if there is no difference why bother?

If I ride faders I actually ride drums and guitars because they are very predictable and you know what it is going to sound like the other end of a compressor.

Different strokes for different folks I guess
Old 23rd February 2008
  #38
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB View Post
So what if you need to drop in on one word or a phrase? Is that where the automation comes in?
go to my vox mixing tips...nowadays i cut sans compressor unlike tape days and buss to one and automate rides to the compressor while working in a DAW..it's not easy riding live we did it then because we had to to fight tape hiss on very dynamic ballads.some singers phrased and projected close to the same every time so after a few takes you could feel it and know the ride coming up ..while others didn't at all and it really messed with you
Old 10th June 2011
  #39
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kozlikha's Avatar
 

Edited
Old 10th June 2011
  #40
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AlexDaCat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hduncan View Post
Yes but transients help to overload digital systems to the point of clipping whereas analogue seems to lob off that part and keep the rest intact..

James, would you mind explaining more on this AGC? I've never heard of it..
Automatic Gain Control, "Audio/video
An audio tape generates a certain amount of noise. If the level of the signal on the tape is low, the noise is more prominent, i.e., the signal-to-noise ratio is lower than it could be. To produce the least noisy recording, the recording volume should be set as high as possible without being so high as to clip or seriously distort the signal. In professional high-fidelity recording the level is set manually using a peak-reading meter. If high fidelity is not a requirement, a suitable recording level can be set by an AGC circuit which reduces the gain as the average signal level increases".

heh

Reference
Old 19th July 2011
  #41
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kozlikha's Avatar
 

So is it better to automate fader first (control dynamics), then send it to an AUX to compress?
Old 19th July 2011
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hduncan View Post
what is the goal in the mixing stage as far as getting the volumes the loudest? go as loud as you can without hitting the clip light on any one track or the master?
Oh God no.

There is so much headroom in a DAW. Loud isn't even on the radar. Just make the mix you want. And if you want to smash it for the sound and for whatever reason you end up with 12 db of empty space on top, don't worry about it. There is no reason to "eat up all the loud" at mix time.

Truth is if you're getting anywhere near clipping anything including the 2-buss, you probably recorded too hot in the first place.
Old 19th July 2011
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
that's where i do a ride rather than let a limiter "over" work..
I'm surprised more people aren't talking about riding faders. Automation is the best way of controlling transients/dynamics because it doesn't change the tone or shape of the sound.

But automation can be a lot of work and it takes time, so I guess it's easier to just stick a compressor or limiter on there and let some kind of "agc" happen.

Mychal
Old 19th July 2011
  #44
Fezzle
Guest
Hey man, i find for some things the WAVES VEQ3 , (1073 emulation) works fairly well at softening transients a little.. for snares i find the effect really helps round off transients a little. Soundtoys Decapitator on mode A (Ampex repro head) is quite decent too, you can get more percieved volume for your meter reading and so long as you dont overdo it can do the same job well. I do find however that this kind of thing at least in my experience with software plugs, you wanna watch out you dont do it too much as you can build up quite a smeared mix, i find no matter what EQ I apply the effect comes with a price, you lose clarity in the transients which are important to in the life of your mix.
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