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Looking for studio monitors with deepest/tightest subbass ? (+- $2500) Studio Monitors
Old 30th January 2008
  #1
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dimme3's Avatar
 

Looking for studio monitors with deepest/tightest subbass ? (+- $2500)

I'm looking for some new monitors, especially for producing (subbass-heavy) electronic music on it.
At the moment I am using Mackie HR824s, and I'm happy with the bass sound, altho I want to go louder sometimes (but the built-in limiter dont let me do it)

A few things I want from a monitor- >

- I prefer active ones

- They must go low in the subbass area / tight punchy bass sound

- I don't want to use a stand-alone subwoofer

- They must have a wide sweet spot, so u can listen to them at various points without them sounding very strange suddenly

- neutral / transparent / real sounding - that translate well to other systems

- I want to have the option to play them really LOUD if i want to (sound still have to remain punchy when doing this)

- I prefer smooth highs (not hyped ones) that dont create any fatigueing effect

After reading some threads I found some contenders:

PMC TB2S-A

DYNAUDIO BM15A

KLEIN+HUMMEL O 300

JBL SLR6328

FOCAL TWIN 6BE


Any help or comments are very much appreciated

Thank you!
Old 30th January 2008
  #2
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I have the JBL's and like them very much. My previous system had a sub, but I don't miss it with the JBL's. They can get very loud - better still, they sound great at low volume too, very smooth and "musically accurate."

Fatigue is very low (and I am quite sensitive to this).

I've heard some PMC's that were to die for - but expensive due to poor dollar to pound exchange rate.

Best....H
Old 30th January 2008
  #3
K&H 0300's are incredible in the lows.
Old 30th January 2008
  #4
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Joram's Avatar
 

Why not use a subwoofer?
Old 30th January 2008
  #5
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dimme3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by logichead View Post
I have the JBL's and like them very much. My previous system had a sub, but I don't miss it with the JBL's. They can get very loud - better still, they sound great at low volume too, very smooth and "musically accurate."

Fatigue is very low (and I am quite sensitive to this).

I've heard some PMC's that were to die for - but expensive due to poor dollar to pound exchange rate.

Best....H
I think I'm leaning over to the PMC TB2S-A

But I'm asking myself: Will I have enough subbass ??
(coming from Mackie Hr824 with its 9" LF driver)
Old 30th January 2008
  #6
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dimme3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joram View Post
Why not use a subwoofer?
I prefer to have the full range of sound coming at me from a pair of speakers.

Subwoofer is out of question.
Old 30th January 2008
  #7
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I have a Focal 5.1 system with the Twin/Solo. I had the sub in-line for about 1 hour and decided the Twins didn't need any more bass enhancement. I can listen to the Twins for hours and they are deafening if you turn them up. Pink Floyd in Surround is awesome!

Regards,
Bruce
Old 30th January 2008
  #8
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dimme3's Avatar
 

another contender is the ADAM S2.5A..
slightly more expensive than PMC or JBL tho
Old 30th January 2008
  #9
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TB2s do have great bottom end for the money, very easy to know what is going on 'down there' and generally pretty accurate. I mix on them a bit and am always happy with the lo end translation.
I think PMC do make a sub for them but I have never seen/used one.
Old 31st January 2008
  #10
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dimme3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by logichead View Post
I have the JBL's and like them very much. My previous system had a sub, but I don't miss it with the JBL's. They can get very loud - better still, they sound great at low volume too, very smooth and "musically accurate."

Fatigue is very low (and I am quite sensitive to this).

I've heard some PMC's that were to die for - but expensive due to poor dollar to pound exchange rate.

Best....H
I've narrowed it down to the JBL LSR6328 and the PMC TB2S-A
They share the same price but the JBL have greater watt output I've noticed, also they seem to go a bit lower in the subbass area.
Any users here who heard both of these units?
Is the subbass on the TB2S-A big enough for electronic music?

thanks
Old 31st January 2008
  #11
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If you want BASS, buy something with a “bass” speaker, I mean something in 12" if not 15" region. 10” as in BM15A will not give you what you are asking for.
Old 31st January 2008
  #12
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimme3 View Post
Is the subbass on the TB2S-A big enough for electronic music?
The TB2's are wonderful monitors IMHO, but as with any monitors, their capability right down at the bottom end is probably going to have much more to do with placement and room characteristics. TB2's thrive on good (ie expensive) stands and require some thought about positioning as considerations like distance from walls and corners can have a dramatic effect on low-end response. Same is true for most monitors of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimme3 View Post
Subwoofer is out of question.
I do electronic music too, and for what it's worth, I absolutely love my TB2's but they can't compete with the really tight, deep bass of my much cheaper Blue Sky ProDesks which have an integral sub - we're talking really hearing that Waldorf Pulse sub-oscillator, or the full bloom of the TR808 kick. It can't be done on any budget (under $2,000) 2-way nearfield I've heard - to hear useful information below, say, 50Hz properly you either need a sub or a much bigger budget for some full-rangers.

Add the XB-1 sub to the TB2's however (which I did for a while) and you're talking a pretty serious full-range system - you will need a beefy amp to drive that though, as the XB-1 is passive. The XB-1 is also pretty expensive and will add $1,000 to your budget.

If it was me in your shoes I wouldn't write off systems with a sub out of hand until you've demo'd some good ones in your room, but it looks like you've either already done this or have simply rejected the sub concept out of hand. So be it.

A final point worth making is that the transmission-line design of the TB2's gives them a very different sort of bass response than what one is perhaps used to with ported or closed-box designs. This takes some getting used to until you realise that it's a nice, accurate, rounded sound, as opposed to the air-shifting thump you might be used to with other designs.

And another thing - don't make a judgement on the TB2's right out-of-the-box; as the manufacturer recommends, they need some good hours of running in to settle down and really start seducing your ears!

I reviewed the PMC TB2's here and the Blue Sky ProDesks here
Old 31st January 2008
  #13
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u b k's Avatar
 

not gonna happen. wouldn't be desirable even if it could.

if you've got a two way and you need the same driver to pound 30hz while delivering accuracy at 3k, something's gotta give. there's a reason we tend to like tweeters for some freqs and cones for the lower ones, and there's a reason people build boxes with a single bass driver to add on to existing systems.

in any case, pmc will not even come close to satisfying sub-bass desires. ditto adams, jbl's, and focals. you need a sub to really have something visceral at 30hz while retaining transient accuracy in the telephonics.

it's rare that i'm dogmatic on anything sound related, but on this one you really would do well to flex your requirements, get a $1500 pair of full ranges and tuck a sweet $1000 sub underneath them. it'll crush anything you'll get out of a single pair.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 31st January 2008
  #14
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimme3 View Post
I'm looking for some new monitors, especially for producing (subbass-heavy) electronic music on it.
At the moment I am using Mackie HR824s, and I'm happy with the bass sound, altho I want to go louder sometimes (but the built-in limiter dont let me do it)

A few things I want from a monitor- >

- I prefer active ones

- They must go low in the subbass area / tight punchy bass sound

- I don't want to use a stand-alone subwoofer

- They must have a wide sweet spot, so u can listen to them at various points without them sounding very strange suddenly

- neutral / transparent / real sounding - that translate well to other systems

- I want to have the option to play them really LOUD if i want to (sound still have to remain punchy when doing this)

- I prefer smooth highs (not hyped ones) that dont create any fatigueing effect

After reading some threads I found some contenders:

PMC TB2S-A

DYNAUDIO BM15A

KLEIN+HUMMEL O 300

JBL SLR6328

FOCAL TWIN 6BE


Any help or comments are very much appreciated

Thank you!
This description leads straight to K&H O300 without any doubt. For me the most natural/real sounding monitor with tight, extended lows and smooth mids and highs. More expensive thant the others contenders, but you get what you pay for.
Old 31st January 2008
  #15
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There is only one thing with them, that doesn't really meet your requierments. They play very loud for nearfields, you wouldn't want to mix or listen to a music for a longer period of time at 100dB SPL, but they won't impress your clients with loudnes, as they will listen to their mixes 5 meters away.
Old 31st January 2008
  #16
Gear Head
 
dimme3's Avatar
 

Thanks for all the information so far

I had a subwoofer before, but I didn't like the sound cause it was too boomy (also cause of bad placement, I'm sure).
I also got this feeling that the low frequencies arrived later, it sounded a little bit too seperated for my taste.
So I'm looking for nearfields/midfields to replace to my Mackies Hr824s, and I just want to make sure my new speakers go as low as my Mackies.
(dunno if it matters for some monitors of a certain size but my room is 12ftx15ft / height = 7ft)

Any JBL SLR6328P users who can chime in on this one?
Those seem to have lots of positive reviews here, but can they go as low as the mackies?


Thank you.
Old 31st January 2008
  #17
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dimme3's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
There is only one thing with them, that doesn't really meet your requierments. They play very loud for nearfields, you wouldn't want to mix or listen to a music for a longer period of time at 100dB SPL, but they won't impress your clients with loudnes, as they will listen to their mixes 5 meters away.

So, how low do these monitors go? I mean, in real life?
On paper it says to 40Hz
Old 31st January 2008
  #18
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What I like with Klein&Hummel is that they don't overestimate the bandwith of their speakers.

For example: Adam S3a are said by the paper to go to 32Hz +-3dB, Genelec 8050 to 38Hz +-2dB, Focal Twins to 40Hz +-2,5dB and Klein&Hummel O300 to 40Hz +- 2dB. But
I have listened to all of them and can clearly state that Klein&Hummel have the most natural, deep and tight low end. I believe they give you the appropriate information all down to 30Hz. Only ADAMs S3a have tighter bass, but it doesn't go near as low as O300. With O300 you can hear even the lowest musical octave without any problem and the definition is superb. I haven't heard a nearfield monitor with such a good bass extension.
Old 31st January 2008
  #19
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bassman's Avatar
 

I have the TB-2's and came from the Mackie's.

1. The Mackies stop doing anything meaningful below 60hz even though you hear it, it ain't accurate, just humming.

2. The TB-2's are going down just below 50 or so but in a much more accurate way so they are better by far.

3. 50-60Hz, that is not sub-bass. I have a 15" Tannoy sub with mine and they can jimmy-jam it down into the 20's. A small driver like the TB-2 just can't go down that low by itself. 25-50 is basically the lowest octave and for that you need a big driver.

I think your budget might just be a little light to get what you really want, which seems to be basically everything we all want in a great monitor, clear, low, loud, non-fatiguing etc....

In the PMC world, I would be looking at the IBS2 or the AML1 at least. Otherwise, its a compromise.

-bassman
Old 31st January 2008
  #20
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I have the JBL LSR28P's, the previous version of the ones you mention. Bass sounds way better compared to the Mackies in my room. Overall a much much better speaker. These are worth looking into as they go for really cheap.
Old 31st January 2008
  #21
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dimme3's Avatar
 

Ok, thanks for the information
Maybe I'll better save some more $$ till I can afford the Barefoot MM27s
They look like the perfect nearfields for me.
Old 31st January 2008
  #22
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt View Post
If you want BASS, buy something with a “bass” speaker, I mean something in 12" if not 15" region. 10” as in BM15A will not give you what you are asking for.
agreed. besides, if you are making electronic (club?) music, "they" say you should be monitoring on a system that is similar to the desired playback setup. all clubs are using subs.

i was very weary of switching to a sub myself, but my mixes have gotten much better since i bought one. properly placed and calibrated, you won't even know it's there. sometimes i still check if mine is even on.
Old 31st January 2008
  #23
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Of your list, I have had PMC TB2S+ (passive), Dyn BM15 (also passive), and K+H O300D. No question that the O300 has the most powerful and deepest bass of those.

As mentioned, the PMC transmission line is nice, better for me to use than reflex ports I have heard. But drops off in that small model around 45 Hz.

None of them will give true subwoofer performance, into the 25-35 Hz range.

As for 'neutral / transparent / real sounding' -- either K+H or PMC can work here. But still I find that overall I usually prefer something with a bit less high end extension than those two. So I have gone with something completely different, a full range single driver Druid from Zu Audio. They do not produce much below 40 Hz either, but I use Hsu subs with them occasionally and like that match.

For another option, just today I have received these small speakers for evaluation: Digital Phase AP-.7

Very unique design, reasonable price. Have been made for over 20 years exactly the same. Their anechoic response is measured as ±1.5 dB from 35 Hz to 20 kHz. I will report back how they compared to those others.

Steve
Old 31st January 2008
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
What I like with Klein&Hummel is that they don't overestimate the bandwith of their speakers.

For example: Adam S3a are said by the paper to go to 32Hz +-3dB, Genelec 8050 to 38Hz +-2dB, Focal Twins to 40Hz +-2,5dB and Klein&Hummel O300 to 40Hz +- 2dB. But
I have listened to all of them and can clearly state that Klein&Hummel have the most natural, deep and tight low end. I believe they give you the appropriate information all down to 30Hz. Only ADAMs S3a have tighter bass, but it doesn't go near as low as O300. With O300 you can hear even the lowest musical octave without any problem and the definition is superb. I haven't heard a nearfield monitor with such a good bass extension.

Well said.
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