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Drummer or audience perspective when recording/mixing drums? Dynamics Plugins
Old 9th January 2008
  #1
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Thread Starter
Drummer or audience perspective when recording/mixing drums?

How do you do it?

For years I've approached it from drummers perspective e.g snare and hat just off the left, kick in the center, ride to the right etc. Interested to know if other do it this way or from audience perspective. Also noted that some guys like to do snare and kick up the middle.

I find myself doing drums from drummers perspective, then filling in the rest from audience perspective as if I'm watching a live show... kind of weird... and I didn't really think about it much before I read an article in Electronic Musician about Omar Hakim.

Love to get other thoughts on this.

Cheers

Matt
Old 9th January 2008
  #2
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
I usually mix from right handed drummers perspective because I like to play air drums while I mix. But there are certainly no rules.
Old 9th January 2008
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Old 9th January 2008
  #4
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matta's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Thanks Ronan,

Do you tend to adopt this with most of your mixes? I mean as the go to, obviously it differs from track to track, artist to artist, project to project. I guess I play air drums to while mixing/tracking and am right handed, maybe that is why.... hmm, never thought of it that way.

And how you approach the rest of the mix? I tend to find myself doing mono acoustics to the right, electrics to the left, bass in the middle etc... again it differs from project to project, just wondering why I do it that way I guess, LOL.

Cheers

Matt
Old 9th January 2008
  #5
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Always from the audience.

How do you pan double drummers?
Not double tracked, but two players....

I've had to do this.
Mirror image... hats centered.
Old 9th January 2008
  #6
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Protools Guy's Avatar
 

I will do it either way the client wants, but if I'm doing it MY way, I'll do it from the drummer's perspective.
Old 9th January 2008
  #7
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BLueROom's Avatar
 

I always prefer the audience perspective. I agree with the article. I do find that most drummers want the drummer perspective so I give it to them.
Old 9th January 2008
  #8
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I think there have been lots of threads about this and the decision is usually pretty inconsequential IMO.

My philosophy is that the non-drumming listener would never notice either way, but the drumming listener will appreciate the drummer's perspective.
Old 9th January 2008
  #9
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Crash's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I usually mix from right handed drummers perspective because I like to play air drums while I mix. But there are certainly no rules.

That is me as well.
Old 9th January 2008
  #10
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Clayphish's Avatar
 

As a drummer, it makes me feel uncomfortable when a mix is from audience perspective, so I usually go that way unless specified. The other reason I do it is because its the drummers who will be picking up on the position while "most" other listeners will be, well, listening for other things. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but to me it makes sense in most situations.
Old 9th January 2008
  #11
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by matta View Post
Thanks Ronan,

Do you tend to adopt this with most of your mixes? I mean as the go to, obviously it differs from track to track, artist to artist, project to project. I guess I play air drums to while mixing/tracking and am right handed, maybe that is why.... hmm, never thought of it that way.

And how you approach the rest of the mix? I tend to find myself doing mono acoustics to the right, electrics to the left, bass in the middle etc... again it differs from project to project, just wondering why I do it that way I guess, LOL.
My go to approach is almost always right handed drummers perspective. So left handed drummers usually get mixed audience perspective, but of course no rules. Come to think of it, I have not had a drummer ask me to mix one way or the other in the last decade. I would have not problem accommodating a request.

In regards to the other stuff I have no standard about where to put the other instruments. Its totally Dependant on arrangement and how the various instrument interact with each other.
Old 9th January 2008
  #12
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Beardhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
Always from the audience.

How do you pan double drummers?
Not double tracked, but two players....

I've had to do this.
Mirror image... hats centered.
That's interesting! I'll have to do that on live recordings of a forthcoming tour. I thought about doing both strictly mono, one kit left, one right. There's a drum battle with the Melvins and Tool drummers that sounds that way.
But mirror image is a great idea!

Concerning one drum kit it's audience perspective for me. Makes sense and although I'm a drummer it makes me feel comfortable.

Claus
Old 9th January 2008
  #13
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henryrobinett's Avatar
I used to always do it drummers perspective until I started doing serious recording of our band live. It just didn't make any sense to me any more. Piano's there. OK, guitar is here. Bass, -- everything was audience perspective except drums. Too weird. It made more sense for me to switch. But sometimes I go back. It's not a huge deal.
Old 10th January 2008
  #14
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strat+ac30's Avatar
 

+1 on air drumming as primary motivation in panning drummer's perspective (assuming right-handed drummer).

-1 on audience perspective as some form of "realism". I don't know of any drumkits that span the entire length of the stage. Live drums - depending on where you are in the audience - are really mono more than stereo, so wouldn't a "realist" approach involve mono (or almost mono) drums?

The same goes for Piano, which I believe is much more uniform in player perspective panning (though piano is also much more frequently mono than drums are).
Old 10th January 2008
  #15
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

I'm not big on wide drum panning, but what panning I do is "audience perspective" if it's left up to me. But I always make a point of asking the client, because they often haven't previously given it any thought.

One interesting experience was mixing a live Allman Bros. video. As you know, they perform onstage with 2 complete drum kits side by side. Butch Trucks (one of the drummers) was producing, and he wanted the drums panned widely and from the drummer's (in this case drummers') perspective. So what you saw was basically backwards from what you heard. Seemed odd to me, but... there you go.
Old 10th January 2008
  #16
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Keldog's Avatar
 

I've always mixed from the drummers perspective.

No reasoning, just always have.



And I like beer.
Old 10th January 2008
  #17
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Audience pespective unless I forced the other way. Reason being, the drummer is the only person who hears it that way. It's about the song and the listener not the drummer. Always felt that you should mix as if the listener is in the best seat in the house. That to me isn't the drummer's postion.
I had this discussion with a drummer. He told me he won't listen to a band if it isn't drum perpect. I ask him when he was at the Bozio clinic did he stand behind the drummer? No I couldn't. So I asked him, what did you do, turn your back to Terry so it was drummer's perspective?
Can you imagine watching a live concert broadcast w/ the audio in drummer's perspective? Everytime the drummer would do a fill it would be backwards. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Old 10th January 2008
  #18
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warhead's Avatar
 

Drummer's perspective. As a drummer I can't help but do it this way, I've never been asked to change it.

War
Old 10th January 2008
  #19
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henryrobinett's Avatar
Yeah, not being a drummer, it really doesn't make sense to me either. I rarely play air drums either. But sometimes I like to listen, either on stage or to a stereo, as if I'm in the drummers throne. But I don't have to have drummers perspective L/R, to do this. It's just a fun point of view. But mixing that way all the time spins the band around, depending on your mix.
Old 10th January 2008
  #20
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Sigma's Avatar
1 person hears it from the drummers perspective..the drummer... i pan is as would hear it live
Old 10th January 2008
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I usually mix from right handed drummers perspective because I like to play air drums while I mix. But there are certainly no rules.
I'm right there with ya! Air drums while mixing and all!
Old 10th January 2008
  #22
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Classic's Avatar
 

As a drummer, nothing drives me up the wall more than mixing a song and hearing the drums NOT in drummer's perspective. Also, when I listen to music with audience perspective, I'm always thinking about it.
Old 10th January 2008
  #23
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Question for all drummers.
If you don't know if the drummer is left handed or not, how do you know when it's not drum perspective. Seems to me that there are more right handed drummers and because of that they always expect the hh on the left. I jut finished a band with a lefty. For him I mixed to the left but it was still audience perspective.
Old 10th January 2008
  #24
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I learned to do it drummer perspective. Engineer told me years ago, the only people that will have an opinion or even care are drummers... so do it like that.

Never really thought much more about it. I do find myself putting snare and stuff up the middle more nowadays though
Old 10th January 2008
  #25
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My partner always does it from the audience POV. Its the only thing that gets me when I pull up his mixes, I pull up OVHL and its got a lot of ride in it!!!
Old 10th January 2008
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyd View Post
the only people that will have an opinion or even care are drummers...
That's one damn fine reason to do audience perspective...
Old 10th January 2008
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyt View Post
I learned to do it drummer perspective. Engineer told me years ago, the only people that will have an opinion or even care are drummers... so do it like that.
I'm not a drummer, and I have an opinion.

Audience perspective...always...unless asked to do otherwise. I want a sonic representation of the ultimate live performance when I mix. If I've seen the band live (which I always try to do before a project), I'll often visualize their show while mixing...

I like playing air drums as much as the next guy, but let's not be selfish, drum people!
Old 10th January 2008
  #28
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As a bit of a hack drummer myself, I always prefer (right handed) drummer's perspective...yup, the air drums thing If it's a mix of a live recording, which I do a lot of, then I'll reverse it.
I'm easy though, if the client or even the drummer has a strong preference either way then I'll abide by their wishes.
-G
Old 10th January 2008
  #29
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I guess the only time I think about the band sounscape of what it would sound like onstage is when a band is onstage....

I confess, behind the console I want to hear the hi-hat on my left foot... I ain't no drummer though.

Its hardly a hardline rule though. I'm easy.
Old 10th January 2008
  #30
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Not my quote.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyd View Post
the only people that will have an opinion or even care are drummers..
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