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Drummer or audience perspective when recording/mixing drums? Dynamics Plugins
Old 10th January 2008
  #31
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I usually switch it when I'm nearing the end of a mix to see if it makes a difference.. if it does, I keep it
Old 10th January 2008
  #32
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Jeff S's Avatar
Wow - I'd love to see a poll on this. I must be weird. I'm a drummer (first instrument) and have been mixing 20+ years and always mix from the audience perspective. It never occurred to me to do otherwise (unless I knew the drummer was a lefty) since I always viewed it as the listener was watching the band. I've never even had anybody ask for them to be reversed. I guess I really never paid it much attention. Things that make you go hummmm Maybe I'll switch and see if anybody notices
Old 10th January 2008
  #33
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
If I was sitting in front of a band watching them, the audience perspective of the drums would be pretty much mono. Drums with a stereo spread is pretty much a studio trick.
Old 12th August 2008
  #34
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dannyschmanny's Avatar
 

i was always 100 percent drummers perspective. but the past several months im all about audience. realized a couple of my favorite producers do audience and i had never really noticed. and to be honest i kinda like it better. im not in the band so id rather not hear it mixed as if i was. i want to hear it and percieve it like im watching them.
Old 12th August 2008
  #35
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Animus's Avatar
 

I do it both ways depending on the song and the mix. Sometimes it sounds better in a mix with certain drums favored to a particular side.
Old 12th August 2008
  #36
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i usually do it from a right handed drummers perspective, but i put the snare in the center.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
If I was sitting in front of a band watching them, the audience perspective of the drums would be pretty much mono. Drums with a stereo spread is pretty much a studio trick.
hah, agreed
Old 13th August 2008
  #37
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Sk106's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiloBeddoe View Post
My philosophy is that the non-drumming listener would never notice either way.
From the beginning, being behind the drums so much, I couldn't imagine any other way than from the drummer's perspective. But with time, I've come to agree with the quote above. Most drummers don't even notice or mind, unless the panning is very obvious.
Old 13th August 2008
  #38
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Mylithra's Avatar
 

I do a lot of hard panning with my own drums but it really depends on what the song calls for and where things happen to fit when Im mixing. I know it sounds like BS and I called it as such till I tried it, but panning things around while listening in mono can help find a nice spot for stuff in a mix. If it happens to something normally on the left from the audence perspective may end up being somewhere else.
Old 13th August 2008
  #39
DRUMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Same goes for piano: high on right, low on left.

...this comes from someone who plays piano and drums. I would feel off kilter listening to my own music if it was backwards.
Old 13th August 2008
  #40
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The dman's Avatar
 

Quote:
I must be weird. I'm a drummer (first instrument) and have been mixing 20+ years and always mix from the audience perspective.
Funny I started out as a drummer and it always felt natural to pan it from the drummers perspective so I guess we're both right

I keep on saying I'm gonna try it from the audience perspective but but I'm so comfortable with the the way I do it, I never do.
Old 13th August 2008
  #41
Gear addict
 

Being a drummer, I often pan drummer's perspective just because that's how I'm used to it sounding to me, but if I'm going for more of an ambient drum sound then I'll go for audience perspective.
Old 14th August 2008
  #42
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TTatman's Avatar
 

Old 14th August 2008
  #43
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AnthonyRochester's Avatar
 

I'm of the opinion that it doesn't really matter, but I do it audience perspective now, it just seems right to me. So I tell the drummer to wear the headphones backwards.
Old 14th August 2008
  #44
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Matti's Avatar
As a former film / TV sound recordist I tend to mix for the audience perpective
for obvious reasons

Matti
Old 14th August 2008
  #45
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vaka's Avatar
 

I am a drummer but still mix from audience perspective.

And to make a very broad generalisation, it seems most albums done in the states are drummer perspective, while a lot of records made here in europe are from audience. Atleast on the records I own.
Old 14th August 2008
  #46
Gear addict
 

In the end trying to achieve an audience perspective doesn't really makes sense since you'd have to sit down directly in front of the kit in order to have toms etc. "panned".
often toms are unrealistically widely spread over the stereo image in records which is fine if it sounds good.
I just listen what sounds better on each song.
Old 14th August 2008
  #47
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Sk106's Avatar
 

Another aspect, is that in most pop/rock contexts the drums are mixed preserving much of the presence and clarity of close micing. In any way it has more presence than you'd ever get from standing 20 feet in front of the kit. If the drums are mixed from an audience perspective, with a bit of reverb and still sound as close and crisp as you'd be having the drum right by you, this confuses my ears quite a bit.

If you mix a kit with the same levels of presence that you'd hear 15-20 feet in front of a kit, most pop/rock engineers would instinctively react and say it's too dull and somewhat boxy. From a drummer's point of view, that might be something to consider. Close micing, and the presence you can get out of that, is clearly something you only get by having a drum/cymbal right next to you, and facing you.
Old 14th August 2008
  #48
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Jeff16years's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLueROom View Post
I always prefer the audience perspective. I agree with the article. I do find that most drummers want the drummer perspective so I give it to them.
i feel like the only person who would ever notice the way they are panned is the drummer. the listener isn't going to subliminally think something sound more realistic or something like that because they are panned audience perspective.

so I always pan drummers pers.

thats just me .
-Jeff
Old 14th August 2008
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

There are 3 things civilized people don't talk about in polite conversation:

1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Drum perspective






But because I'm just barely civilized here goes:

Audience perspective drives me crazy. I always mix in drummers perspective. I don't have a good reason why I don't like audience perspective, it just feels wrong to me.


Jeff
Old 15th August 2008
  #50
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mikymike's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Drummer's perspective. As a drummer I can't help but do it this way, I've never been asked to change it.

War
Who in their right mind would let the DRUMMER mix???
Old 15th August 2008
  #51
Gear addict
 
Eldhrimnir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff S View Post
...since I always viewed it as the listener was watching the band.
+1
Always audience perspective. Period. I mix for the general listener (How little they even care). Not the 0.1% of them who happen to be drummers.
/Daniel
Old 15th August 2008
  #52
Gear addict
 
Eldhrimnir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Goodman View Post
There are 3 things civilized people don't talk about in polite conversation:

1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Drum perspective
Then I'm glad to see that you've got an Avatar that does not at all provoke to any such discussions heh

/Daniel
Old 15th August 2008
  #53
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DAWgEAR's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyd View Post
Can you imagine watching a live concert broadcast w/ the audio in drummer's perspective?
Interesting point.
Old 15th August 2008
  #54
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ripper's Avatar
 

do we HAVE to do wide stereo drums all the time? ... it's so, um, eighties!
bring on the hair metal.dfegad

i dont go into a mix automatically thinking the drums will be panned in such a way...

why should i?

lots of my fav records have drums mono, all left or all right or in stereo.

this thread has been done before and then as now, i found it very interesting no one said NEITHER.

many times i'll have a variety of mics up go through them and decide which may have the vibe for the song. maybe it's just the dx77 low behind the kit through the 1176 and a bit of kick... who knows?

recently that turned out to be a very important mic on the session... blended w/ the bottom snare mic and kick and all bussed through a 660 and panned 75% left, it knocked our socks off.

other tracks on the album WERE panned and used the overheads, distant room mics, etc.

to me, the drum kit is AN INSTRUMENT.
that's a SONG PERSPECTIVE, not an audience or drummer perspective.

btw/ i do the same tricks w/ bass and instrumental stereo pairs.

not new... but seemingly forgotten.
Old 15th August 2008
  #55
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
When you mix and orchestra it's conductor perspective.
When you play piano it's high on the right low on the left.
Then why reverse it for a drummer?
Old 15th August 2008
  #56
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TTatman View Post
What if the mix is played for an audience full of drummers?
Ha!

As a right handed drummer, I hate mixes from audience perspective, unless its that of a left handed drummer, just sounds odd. I saw the drummer from Incubus play at 90 degrees from the rest of the band once, how do you pan that audience perspective?
Old 15th August 2008
  #57
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Sk106's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
When you mix and orchestra it's conductor perspective.
When you play piano it's high on the right low on the left.
Then why reverse it for a drummer?
From a stage point of view, the conductor and drummer sits in opposite direction from each other. And a pianist usually sits sideways
Old 15th August 2008
  #58
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ripper's Avatar
 

bring back mono, hard left or hard right!thumbsup

am i truly the voice in the wilderness?

someone hep me !heh
Old 15th August 2008
  #59
Drummers, can't live with them, can't live without them.

They don't deserve their perspective, it's selfish.

Mix for the audience. Drummers aren't buying your records.

Besides, it works better with live or live in studio tracking, the bleed will work for you. I always pan to the original positions, that helps the blend.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 15th August 2008
  #60
Gear Guru
 
DanDan's Avatar
Perspective

I am an Engineer (hate that name) and sometimes Drummer. I automatically go with the audience perspective. Drummers perspective can be Left or Right handed. Also some drummers are backwards. The audience habit has an advantage for TV or DVD sound mixes. I would break this habit anyday if I needed to pan the hi-hat opposite a strummed acoustic guitar for instance. Piano- similar, pan the bottom end away from any other low end confusion.

Similarity between a Drummer and a Condom-

You have to use them, but it feels better without.

:-)

DD
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