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Show Me The $$$ In todays music market...where is the $$$
Old 7th December 2007
  #1
Gear Head
 
oddeo's Avatar
 

Show Me The $$$ In todays music market...where is the $$$

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

I recognize many-a-talented musician on this forum, and know that many of you are Gearslutz professionally. I am looking for a bit of insight from you….

In your opinion….

Where do you think the money is for:

- Someone who has a ton of gear (and knows how to use it all).
- 15 years of music experience (multiple genres).
- A love for electronic, rock and classical (and enough experience writing each to get by).
- Someone who lives in the US (Dallas to be exact)
- Someone who has played in many bands and has written plenty in the studio.
- Someone who has plenty of music knowledge and understanding but no formal musical training or music education (at least not since gradeschool…Does a BA in Electronic Media and Communications count?... )
- Someone who has never been in any business aspect of music (other than live gigs and being a promoter).

If someone (me) fitting all of these descriptions is looking to take it one step of from a hobby and make a little money with their gear and talents, but has never really tried before, would you advise they get into…..video game music, selling downloads, indi-film scores, commercial production??? Or is there something else? I am looking to head in some direction. But am not sure which direction to head in quite yet and am hopping you might have some input, insight or advice.

Thank you for your thoughts!!!
Old 8th December 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Greg_KPX's Avatar
 

how much money do you want?

and do you want it weekly or in one big hit, or have it slowly trickling in?
Old 8th December 2007
  #3
Gear Addict
 
richardswag's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddeo View Post
...am not sure which direction to head in quite yet and am hopping ...
If I were you I'd put videos of your aimless hopping on YouTube - that's where all the smart money is today.
Old 8th December 2007
  #4
lease hummers to "artists" appearing on cribs. i think thats where the real money is @.
Old 8th December 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Beermaster's Avatar
 

First off you have to get the order of things right here. Money is the last thing in the chain of events and chasing the money as a priority will be like chasing your tail. The passion for writing a particular type of music or music for a particular media has to be the driving force.

You need to have a focus and passion for what it is you want to do, Without this you'll never survive the ups and downs and likewise any potential contacts and clients will soon see through you. You see its not just about the music its all the **** thats connected to getting the good gigs and completing productions so your clients are happy - Money doesn't suddenly pour out of the walls for any area of the biz. You have to build a client base and list of credits to work your way up to the food chain and to gain the trust of better and better clients. That involves an load of **** and hard work, biting your lip and picking yourself up after the putdowns and negative comments of many people.

Its tough out there but all of these rules apply to finally paying the bills and and taxes ! ha ha

SO, find your passion and focus - then network - then entertain, then do favours and freebies - then network - then entertain - then demo - then pitch - then network - then entertain - then make a Showreel - Website - etc etc

Beer
Old 8th December 2007
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Great post Beer.


Money has caused more corruption than it is worth ---->Politic$$$$$$$$
Old 8th December 2007
  #7
Gear Head
 
oddeo's Avatar
 

Greg KPX - Not looking for killer money at first...just some for start...I know it will take a good amount of time and hard work to prove any worth.

Beermaster - I agree that the money is the last thing to come. The passion for writing a specific type of music is one of my big problems I am trying to work on. I am very passionate about many different types. I spent 5 years hosting an on-air electronic music radio show and fell in love with several additional genres and have written a wide spread ever since. I am currently working on 4 different projects with other artists right now (not including solo work) and they are all completely different genres. I have come to realize that though I love all of the projects and have access to some great artists, unless I focus none are going to be as successful as one or two could be (that is off the point though). What I am trying to do right now is to split my time two ways....

- one half for the artist side, which is strictly uncompromisable artistry, if the money happens great, if not that is not what it is all about.....

- the other half for a professional side, which can handle some compromising, and does have an intent of some day profiting and will hopefully get to the point where I can ditch my current career as decathlon rat.

The point of my starting this thread however is not to address, the artist side (I know I need to consolidate there, and only I have the right answers)....the point of this thread is to explore the other.

I do not have much knowledge on what type of options there are out there for a studio/talent endowed musician in this world. If I know what the options are I can pick one and begin the long journey ahead.

I can figure out the passion part, but what I am asking for here are ideas on what people are doing out there to make a living with their home studios and how to get started in such professions.

Broad, I know, but I have got to start somewhere and figure this would be a good place to start compiling ideas.

Thanks for the input!
Old 8th December 2007
  #8
As Beermaster said, a passionate interest will drive you into one area.
You titled the thread with $$$ and you've said 'killer money' too.
Most of the successful people I've met would be doing what they are doing if no money was involved.

Besides, making a career requires a lot of sacrifice with no guarantee of reward.

Forget the killer $$$.
Old 8th December 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Beermaster's Avatar
 

Well without boring the teeth out of everyone and not wanting to sound like something I'm not:

I started out as a bedroom writer working lots of jobs to pay rent and like many others here at GS gradually worked up to having a small studio in central London - I still work alone and clean the carpets as well as chasing invoices and producing music. Its not a profession where there is any security or regular pay and there are many people out there doing the same thing so you have to take what ever gigs come your way and adapt to learn the various jobs and types of music. ( and types of clients ) - I write music for picture so that can be TV themes, Scoring Incidental music, TV Ads, Radio Ad, Music for Cartoon and kids shows, Film trailers , Sonic Idents for company logos, Web Identities, Web games - Library music, occasional poduction on other peoples songs. Music styles are from every extreme you can think of. One day its make a track that sounds like it came from the last 50Cent album - the next is record a realistic orchestration of Vivaldi's 'Summer' - -- in 12 hours.. without the score.

To be honest I LOVE my job and I HATE my job - I'm an utter prostitute getting paid mainly write music that I don't particularly like ( either due to the likes or dis-likes of some ponytailed art director or because the director likes Banjoes ! -ha ha ) you have to be a psychologist to work out what your clients know or don't know - if they do know what they want then do they want a helping hand - or are they the sort that like to think they've contributed to the sound in someway ( in which case feed em' a bone and make them believe that the new bass line was their idea ) - so many character types that all need to be dealt with in a different manor and with different gloves

But all of this is just talking about doing the work .... The problem is Getting the work... And thats difficult most of the time.

Beer
Old 8th December 2007
  #10
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peeder's Avatar
 

I think the money is from writing a hit song. Whatever it takes to make that song a hit contributes and is rewarded too.

I still think it's possible to write a hit song and roll performance rights in for decades as it gets played in various forms (some grotesque) in the supermarket etc.
Old 8th December 2007
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

most money is made with gigs today. that's why all the record companies make deals where they get money from the gigs too. I think the robbie williams contract was one of the first which included that.
Old 8th December 2007
  #12
big money? If you're in it for money only, go do something else. really.

um ok, music?
how ruthless are you?
how much talent do you have?
Music is communications of emotions.
the "$$ pimp" character pretty much played itself IMO. booooooooorinnnngggg heh

If you're Good (with capital G) get a good manager and focus on making records.
Wait for a trend and jump in with everything you have, just before it makes it bigtime.
pretty vague, yes, but so is your question.
Old 8th December 2007
  #13
Gear Addict
 
gio.vanni's Avatar
 

The truth is there is still a ton of potential out there. You just need to network and see where you fit in... try some new genres, try new gigs, if they don't fit you, no harm done... and you move on. Music for film, background music for commercials and TV, beds for political ads, beds for radio shows... I mean the options are there and there are companies that specialize in certain areas; you just need to get out there and be proactive. Try some new genres of music and send the results out to the place where they would grab first. If your in no rush for money, then experimenting is probably your best bet for making SOMETHING.
Old 8th December 2007
  #14
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

The more I think about it, the more writing a song that is a hit that works well in a CAR COMMERCIAL would be ideal.

War
Old 8th December 2007
  #15
Gear Head
 
oddeo's Avatar
 

Thanks Beermaster.

Your post is a little more along the lines of what I am looking for here: specifics on what odd jobs there are that people are doing involving music production.

I figured when I started this thread that 90% of the responses would be people wanting to stroke their egos. i.e. the drummer boys comment on it being hard work so you might as well forget about it. Or those who repeat that they are in it for the love and that anyone in it for the money should piss off. (a lot of people will tell you to give up, but few will tell you to go for it...a few more posts from the few would be nice)

I have spent most of my life in it because I love music, and have never sought $$$ in doing so. But I do live in a money driven society, and if I can find ways to pay a few bills doing something I love, then by all means I would want to know what it is that I can do. That is what I am asking for. If anyone else, such as Beermaster, would be so kind as to share some of the jobs they are doing or have done I would be greatly appreciative.

Thank you to everyone else for your input too.
Old 8th December 2007
  #16
Gear Head
 
oddeo's Avatar
 

gio.vanni - thanks for the post. Do you have any ideas on where I could find some of these companies that handle such work? Or what I would look for in the phone book?

Thanks

Old 8th December 2007
  #17
Gear Addict
 
gio.vanni's Avatar
 

No problem... check your PM.
Old 8th December 2007
  #18
Gear Addict
 
SonOfSteven's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster View Post
First off you have to get the order of things right here. Money is the last thing in the chain of events and chasing the money as a priority will be like chasing your tail. The passion for writing a particular type of music or music for a particular media has to be the driving force.

You need to have a focus and passion for what it is you want to do, Without this you'll never survive the ups and downs and likewise any potential contacts and clients will soon see through you. You see its not just about the music its all the **** thats connected to getting the good gigs and completing productions so your clients are happy - Money doesn't suddenly pour out of the walls for any area of the biz. You have to build a client base and list of credits to work your way up to the food chain and to gain the trust of better and better clients. That involves an load of **** and hard work, biting your lip and picking yourself up after the putdowns and negative comments of many people.

Its tough out there but all of these rules apply to finally paying the bills and and taxes ! ha ha

SO, find your passion and focus - then network - then entertain, then do favours and freebies - then network - then entertain - then demo - then pitch - then network - then entertain - then make a Showreel - Website - etc etc

Beer
Agreed.
The only way to get better at something is to have passion for it and to realy want to do it, the more you do it the better you become. Do it for the wrong reasons, your craft will suffer.

I get most my money from playing live shows and dj sets, small amount from selling the actual music. but its becuase of the music i make that i get liveshow gigs and dj sets. (thats how my small world in music operates)

regards,
Old 8th December 2007
  #19
Gear Head
 
oddeo's Avatar
 

Thanks Gio.Vanni

That was the tip I was looking for!!!
Old 8th December 2007
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddeo View Post
i.e. the drummer boys comment on it being hard work so you might as well forget about it. Or those who repeat that they are in it for the love and that anyone in it for the money should piss off.
Man you are incredibly rude.
With winning people skills like that you are surely going to go far and make big money.

You only seem interested in people who'll say what you want to hear.
Actually I didn't tell you to give up. I said that successful people in the performance side of the industry are rarely focused on 'big money'.
You titled the topic with that and started your first paragraph with 'show me the money' in bigger type.
Show me a long term career might have been more appropriate.

I'm not holding you back, just throwing out a reality check.
*Focus on an area where you would be happy to work for peanuts and bigger rewards may follow.*
There's never been big money in Indie film scores. Hollywood is the way to go. It helps if you are there and have a showreel of great sounding film score work.
TV ads are very lucrative.
However, as the studio scene is contracting and CD sales are dropping, more and more professional musicians are looking at areas they can make a better living. It's highly competitive.
Move to a city where the business is more prominent (Nashville, Los Angeles, London).
Old 8th December 2007
  #21
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddeo View Post
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

Look in the mirror. Look at all the gear you have. Look at the bills you pay. Look at the country that you live in. Look at the war. Check out the starving people in 3rd world countries growing food food that they could be eating but have to export it to pay for Monsanto's patent. Look at what happened to Jimi Hendrix.
You have been taken by the balls my fellow earthling. You have learned very little through music or life. You are addicted to the worst drug to have ever hit the human race.
That wall you are beating your head on is covered with blood. I hope you survive it and are humbled beyond expression of your tiny brain.
Will you please evolve? I know that humans really aren't that far off from the ape but not even an ape has personal problems such yours.

And for your own sake, wipe that fuking look off your face!!!!
Old 8th December 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
There's never been big money in Indie film scores. Hollywood is the way to go. It helps if you are there and have a showreel of great sounding film score work.
and have a team of at least a dozen people who can pull off such a project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
TV ads are very lucrative.
again, if you have a team of at least dozen writers/programmers/musicians, go for it. many of these "agencies" are huge hit factories with an enormous depth on the bench.

being the Highlander these days is, to put it optimistically, a light year from what's called "reality".

the competition is huge. if you are really UNIQUE and so far ahead of the competition, that you can beat their whole teams/compete with them, don't let anything/anybody hold you back.
if you just THINK you are, you will find out the truth sooner or later.

good luck.
Old 8th December 2007
  #23
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JSt0rm's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstytch View Post
Look in the mirror. Look at all the gear you have. Look at the bills you pay. Look at the country that you live in. Look at the war. Check out the starving people in 3rd world countries growing food food that they could be eating but have to export it to pay for Monsanto's patent. Look at what happened to Jimi Hendrix.
You have been taken by the balls my fellow earthling. You have learned very little through music or life. You are addicted to the worst drug to have ever hit the human race.
That wall you are beating your head on is covered with blood. I hope you survive it and are humbled beyond expression of your tiny brain.
Will you please evolve? I know that humans really aren't that far off from the ape but not even an ape has personal problems such yours.

And for your own sake, wipe that fuking look off your face!!!!

god this is SO true for SO many people. Why haven't we evolved? Rinse. Repeat.

One fo the things that turned me off from electronic music and djing is everybody wanting a career out of music either owning some label or djing or producing or managing talent. They fail to see that the steps needed to get there are far beyond the work they are really willing to put into it. I always felt like my own efforts were cheapened by seeing all of this around me. i always saw the explosion of electronic music being because all of those djs bought records not to support the artists that made the records but because they thought they would get rich playing those records. Idiots.

We are so self centered we always fail to see the big picture.

I actually introverted my talents and skill sets because of how i saw the "scene" and now I am a sound effects editor/sound designer in hollywood and enjoy my work very much. Do I make big $$$? No. But I love my work and I still have a lot left to GIVE.
Old 9th December 2007
  #24
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Beermaster's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusColeman View Post
and have a team of at least a dozen people who can pull off such a project.



again, if you have a team of at least dozen writers/programmers/musicians, go for it. many of these "agencies" are huge hit factories with an enormous depth on the bench.

being the Highlander these days is, to put it optimistically, a light year from what's called "reality".



good luck.
Well that's not entirely true and I have to say very negative.

The success of a media composer is all about track record - If you've worked on a student film then thats profile - if that film does nothing then hard luck - but I bet you that someone working on that film will go onto other better things and remember you and the score you produced- who knows, they may call you for their next gig with a whole new level of production and profile.

As to that load of bollocks about having a team of writers and entourage to help you get high end ad work - Well thats just untrue.

I'm quite straight forward about work and not one to blow my own horn but I can tell you that as a writer with NO agent, who Doesn't Advertise, who Doesn't employ any other person for his day to day work - That it IS possible to get high end profile Ads on your own ! - And keep 100% of it for yourself.

Thats not saying that its a walk in the park tho !
Old 9th December 2007
  #25
Presumably you got into scoring because you thought you could do a good job and enjoyed the challenge. Not because it was the route to 'big money'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster View Post
If you've worked on a student film then thats profile - if that film does nothing then hard luck - but I bet you that someone working on that film will go onto other better things and remember you and the score you produced- who knows, they may call you for their next gig with a whole new level of production and profile.
Perhaps. That's what we hope for.
Zero budget films are a great way of getting experience and building up a showreel.
My scoring mates and I used to laugh at the amount of times we did a free film, then when that filmaker was picked up and given a bigger budget, we were forgotten in favour of some other more established name.
That's the nature of the business.
Old 9th December 2007
  #26
Gear Addict
 
RockDog's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trancekid View Post
most money is made with gigs today. that's why all the record companies make deals where they get money from the gigs too. I think the robbie williams contract was one of the first which included that.
most money is made from publishing still, not gigs! unless you are the level of robbie williams or AC/DC or metallica, etc, etc
radio air play an video clip on major music channels is still the major money haul if you have a top 40 hit
if your looking for big dollars any other way than that its hard but not impossible
Old 9th December 2007
  #27
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

It appears to be in selling gear!
Old 9th December 2007
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beermaster View Post
Well that's not entirely true and I have to say very negative.

The success of a media composer is all about track record.......
I don't think my post was negative at all. it was rather realistic.

of course, once you had ads for Audi and german Telekom, things look a little bit brighter - when an agency looks for new music, they can either choose from 1000s of already released songs, from 10.000s of production library titles........or look for a fitting title among the 20 or so production companies they work with.

going in without a track record (hey, if you are Hans Zimmer or Timbaland, this is much easier) and being able to pitch 10 concepts within no more than 48 hours?
good luck.

sure, a lucky shot or having a bunch of connections built up over the years? that's another story. but I'm talking about a "green horn".

let me repeat that (as it was not negative, just an realistic point of view from "within" this industry): if you want to compete on this high level, either become an android or build a team. sure, there are exceptions, but then there are how many 7'6" Chinese basketball players?
Old 10th December 2007
  #29
Gear Addict
 
gio.vanni's Avatar
 

This thread turned into something it shouldn't have. The question the original poster asked was actually a very good one... even if it was very straight forward. I REALLY dislike hippies.
Old 10th December 2007
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstytch View Post
Look in the mirror.....

You have been taken by the balls my fellow earthling...

I hope you survive it and are humbled beyond expression of your tiny brain..

Will you please evolve?..

And for your own sake, wipe that fuking look off your face!!!!
What an a**hole. slipsnatch, do you have anything usefull to say?

oddeo, here is something else: In the San Antonio area, there are a couple of studios that have been around for a very long time. They both have what seems like a monopoly on the market in reference to producing commerial/TV/radio spots. You think they give a flying f**k who in town has a Moog Voyager or the latest flagship Korg workstation? Do you think they give a rat's a** if you can produce any kind of creative musical sounding tune with the extensive libraries of sample music they own? Having established long term relationships with large advertising agencies, access to the right connections concieved though hard work and time, these guys make the bucks, have killer studios and drive nice cars to boot. They started at the bottom and worked their way up to the top. I don't think it was ever a hobby for them, it was business from the start. This is how I have seen it done.
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