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Waves Clamps Down on Piracy
Old 7th October 2007
  #1
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Waves Clamps Down on Piracy

Quote:
Employing undercover agents, the company has obtained video evidence and is now threatening court action to back up its claims for payments plus damages.

...

The operation began earlier this year as teams of investigators posing as potential clients visited facilities in the UK and US to gather evidence, secretly filming studio owners and engineers demonstrating or discussing ‘cracked’ copies of Waves plug-ins. A prominent education establishment is also believed to be implicated.

....

At least six well-known UK studios are known to be involved.
Pro Sound News Europe - Waves comes down heavily on cracked plugs users
Old 7th October 2007
  #2
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FFTT's Avatar
 

So much for Honor Among Thieves
Old 7th October 2007
  #3
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someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't this be considered entrapment, or coercion or something?
Old 7th October 2007
  #4
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It's entrapment if they encouraged or coerced someone to use cracked plugs. Sounds like they just set up sting operations for engineers already using cracks.

Tough for studios who have transient engineers coming through their studios. They will have to keep closer tabs on what gets installed on their machines.
Old 7th October 2007
  #5
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in the united states, entrapment is only committed by law officials.
Old 7th October 2007
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensual Ears View Post
someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't this be considered entrapment, or coercion or something?
Coersion or entrapment imply that the police convinced an otherwise unwilling person to commit a crime. If the studio was all legit and the Waves guy came in and put on the hard sell for a cracked version and then busted them....it MIGHT be considered entrapment...but still probably not. Prostitutes and drug dealers are busted in such sting operations all the time.
All they did here was ask to see the software the studios ALREADY stole.

Using cracked software when you're a 16 year old kid in your bedroom, just wanting to learn and make music is one thing, but doing so in a commercial or educational facility is a whole other ballgame. They deserve whatever legal consequences they get...regardless of how you feel about Waves' as a company.
Old 7th October 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensual Ears View Post
someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't this be considered entrapment, or coercion or something?
entrapment would be if Waves anonymously gave you the pirated software and you used it. Also I think if they anonymously told you where you could get a pirated copy and you downloaded it and then used it, that would also be entrapment .
Old 7th October 2007
  #8
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A studio I work with got nailed by Waves in a sting like this. It's awful - a freelance engineer installed the Waves cracks years ago, and the owners/operators had no idea.

It's an ugly situation, and the damages that Waves is seeking could break this place. They're not even a real music recording studio - it's a web and Flash design company, with a tiny little Pro Tools room for VO and narration recording.

The Waves "agent" posed as an engineer looking for a small, affordable room in which to do mixing. They showed him their little room, he asks what plugs they have running, they shrug and say "I don't know, take a look." WHAM.

There's got to be a better way to reduce piracy...
Old 7th October 2007
  #9
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I'm not a fan of Waves but I absolutely endorse their rights to fight those who are making profits by using their software illegally. I'm of the mindset that if someone is willing to steal the software than they aren't likely willing to buy it at any price. There are far more bedroom engineers using cracks than studios but the studios are easier to attack and are the ones making money off of it.
Old 7th October 2007
  #10
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What I don't understand is why studios would let random freelance engineers install ANY software on their computers. That's just dumb. I mean, how hard is it to set up administrative passwords? If I were a studio owner, those computers would be locked down and no software of any kind would be installed by anyone without permission from me. Leaving those computers open is just asking for viruses (if it's a PC), cracked software, and other random crap to be all over them.
Old 7th October 2007
  #11
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Waves sent a letter like this to the studio I work at. They tried to say we had a cracked diamond bundle.It's complete b.s., we have a legit copy of the gold bundle, no diamond bundle, no cracked anything. I think they're just phishing.
Old 7th October 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
So much for Honor Among Thieves
good one
Old 7th October 2007
  #13
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my spamfilter is allway on for waves

if i need info or some wup related

i will open it ! only for the german service guy

patrick
Old 7th October 2007
  #14
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What I find fishy about it is that I see Waves as (possibly unfounded) an economically very successful company. Are they seeking justice or MORE money ? After the WUP (rob) abomination they are not the company I look to for ethical inspiration. The words greed and fat cats come to mind.

The have every right to do it. Like they probably did with WUP. Not sure how much good it will do them.
Old 7th October 2007
  #15
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Dyer Maker's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensual Ears View Post
someone correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't this be considered entrapment, or coercion or something?
I thought entrapment was charging some one thousands of dollars for a plug in bundle and then making them pay hundreds of dollars every year or two to keep using it.
Old 7th October 2007
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropblacksky View Post
What I don't understand is why studios would let random freelance engineers install ANY software on their computers. That's just dumb. I mean, how hard is it to set up administrative passwords? If I were a studio owner, those computers would be locked down and no software of any kind would be installed by anyone without permission from me. Leaving those computers open is just asking for viruses (if it's a PC), cracked software, and other random crap to be all over them.
Exactly! I administer six Pro Tools workstations at the college where I work. You can't imagine the crap these kids try to install - cracked plugins, file sharing programs, etc. If the computer is administered properly, there is absolutely no need for the end user to have administrative access. That's just asking for trouble...
Old 7th October 2007
  #17
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Waves has every right to be pissed.
Old 7th October 2007
  #18
F*** WAVES! I know they have every right to be pissed but thier WUP user plan is hard to swallow. Unreasonable upgrade plugin prices leads to more people using cracked plugs. I had purchased a Waves Ren bundle for $300 which I dug at the time. I got WUPED for it was going to cost me over $600 to upgrade a $300 bundle because they didn't make that bundle anymore which means I had to buy a bigger bundle that contained the ren plugs. I refuse to lease plugins. If I ever got offered waves cracked plugins I wouldn't even take them after that mess they put me through. I like supporting reasonable companies.
Old 7th October 2007
  #19
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Funk Dracula's Avatar
 

If they are going after REAL criminals, perhaps it's time they stop treating their paying customers like it.


I'm all for them busting people; But is this what WUP is funding?




Old 7th October 2007
  #20
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Regards entrapment, there's no such thing in the UK, in fact, our authorities regularly use such methods...

It would appear Waves (or their agents) are taking a different stance in different territories, in the UK they seem to be accusing outright, not so in the US.

As to freelancers installing software - you should cover yourself with your T&Cs or, more sensibly, restore your computers back to what they were before the session

My advice to anyone that gets one of these letters is to ignore it, I really cannot see how they can hope to win a court case in the UK given some of the reported methods
Old 7th October 2007
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funk Dracula View Post
If they are going after REAL criminals, perhaps it's time they stop treating their paying customers like it.


I'm all for them busting people; But is this what WUP is funding?


I hear ya man,

Maybe its a sign that they are really losing profits(customers) BUT instead of "looking in the mirror"...they wanna point fingers at the "crack-heads"

???
Old 8th October 2007
  #22
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Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

As a person who is forced to buy plugins or go without (guilty conscience) I have no compassion for those who steal software.

It's time that we view music and software as the property that it is.

I don't care if you're a major studio or a college kid. It's theft.

If I told you that my 57 Les Paul was stolen from my studio last year and showed up at The Hit Factory or some 18 year old kid's mom's house, would you see their side at all?

Would it make a difference which one stole it?

No difference. In theory anyway. Stealing software doesn't involve breaking and entering.

Obviously, studios are going to claim that they didn't install it.

I am curious if they can get out of responsibility for it though.

If an intern brought my stolen Les Paul in to that studio and left it there, is the studio liable for the theft? Not sure.

Either way. Buy your software and clean out the crap that your clients install on it. Using Mac OS X, it is very easy to create a new user for the new client and then delete that user when they leave.
Old 8th October 2007
  #23
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Makes you wonder why WAVES doesnt get the ORIGINAL CRACKER CODEBREAKER in this case????.

Sounds just like law, pop the end user and leave the big guy alone
I still have my WAVES GOLD but I wont be wupping anymore. I dont like the policy. Ill be looking elsewhere for my plugins.
Sounds to me more like their extortion policy is loosing them customers and the cash flow is drying up
Old 8th October 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
Makes you wonder why WAVES doesnt get the ORIGINAL CRACKER CODEBREAKER in this case????.

Sounds just like law, pop the end user and leave the big guy alone
I still have my WAVES GOLD but I wont be wupping anymore. I dont like the policy. Ill be looking elsewhere for my plugins.
Sounds to me more like their extortion policy is loosing them customers and the cash flow is drying up
Because there is still lots of debate over whether cracking is illegal or not. If crackers aren't selling the cracked software, or the means to crack, there's often a good case for "grey area". There is legislation, but it's localized and still without much precedence. The crime is often in the distribution of cracked software, and usually the crackers just "put it out there" to no-one specific. It's like a drug dealer just leaving a stash on the sidewalk. Are they peddling?

Crackers aren't "the big guy". Waves wouldn't get any money out of them for recompense, and there'd just be someone else to take their place. There is no return on going after the cracker other than temporarily slowing lost revenue.

It's also arguable how much revenue is lost. How many people would never buy Waves if they actually had to pay for it, orr only use it because they don't have to pay for it.

This same argument can be made for record companies. People download a lot of albums they'd never pay for if they had to.

I'm not supporting crackers or people who use cracked software, just musing about the issue at hand.
Old 8th October 2007
  #25
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I think its pretty intense that they are setting up these operations, but I also don't think its totally unjustifiable. If you really are running a legitimate business, you shouldn't be using cracked software.

Honestly, there are enough studios around for clients to find a place where they can get a decent recording made, and if you plan on running a business, you should never be shady about anything.

I'm in college and from time to time I'll see someone running a cracked version, but thats just a college kid trying to learn whats going on and how to use the software. When there is a piece of gear you really love, eventually you save up and buy it (is that why we are gearslutz?). If software is really something you are going to use, its just as important as gear and you should feel it necessary to buy it just like you would that vintage synth or pre or whatever. Just because its software doesn't mean that someone didn't develop it...

That being said, I am still not sure how I feel about doing things in a sneaky way like this...regardless of the law, people are being trapped.
Old 8th October 2007
  #26
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Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Produceher View Post
If I told you that my 57 Les Paul was stolen from my studio last year and showed up at The Hit Factory or some 18 year old kid's mom's house, would you see their side at all?

Would it make a difference which one stole it?

No difference. In theory anyway. Stealing software doesn't involve breaking and entering.

If I told you that I would sell you my 57 Les Paul but in a year if you wanna keep using it you will have to pay me GUP (Guitar Update Plan) would you pay me or punch me in the face?

lol
Old 8th October 2007
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
If I told you that I would sell you my 57 Les Paul but in a year if you wanna keep using it you will have to pay me GUP (Guitar Update Plan) would you pay me or punch me in the face?

lol
Yeah, but if you said you can keep using it as is , but we are always improving the pick-ups and therefore would have to charge a fee if you want to upgrade , what then ?
Old 8th October 2007
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyer Maker View Post
I thought entrapment was charging some one thousands of dollars for a plug in bundle and then making them pay hundreds of dollars every year or two to keep using it.
No, no, no, that's extortion!
Old 8th October 2007
  #29
Gear Addict
 

i'd get pissed if someone ripped off my work. People these days just don't respect intellectual property rights/software copyright.

Music, Software, etc. The irony. the same people that complain about their music being stolen are the same ones that are ripping off $300 software bundles.
Old 8th October 2007
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Yeah, but if you said you can keep using it as is , but we are always improving the pick-ups and therefore would have to charge a fee if you want to upgrade , what then ?
Well I have read about many people trying to get new authorizations due to hardware failure and the like and Waves refusing to unless they got their WUP up to date. I would punch them in the face and then WUP their arses. ;-)
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