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The CraneSong Analog Dither CD
Old 12th November 2002
  #1
Here for the gear
 

The CraneSong Analog Dither CD

When I first saw this, I immediately thought of Fletcher's FUNK LOGIC Mastererizer...

Apparently 'tis not. Who has used this?

http://www.cranesong.com/analogdither.html

-cal
Old 12th November 2002
  #2
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e-cue's Avatar
 

I got it. It's just dither noise. I A/B'ed it with about 10 people. No one really heard a difference esspecially on fades, which I had heard it's supposed to make them sound more fluid. I'm sure a certain mastering guy here will chime in about it.
Old 12th November 2002
  #3
I never A/B'd the Cranesong Dither w/ other dithers... but, I A/B'd a mix at 24/44.1 and the final at 16/44.1 and I couldn't hear a difference... I guess it's good
Old 12th November 2002
  #4
Quote:
Originally posted by jeronimo
I never A/B'd the Cranesong Dither w/ other dithers... but, I A/B'd a mix at 24/44.1 and the final at 16/44.1 and I couldn't hear a difference... I guess it's good

Wow you couldn't hear a difference?


Man I would have the unit checked out or your monitors, because there is a substantial difference.

I still feel the closest dithering scheme to the original is POW-R #3.
Old 13th November 2002
  #5
Well, I "think" I heard a difference... but I don't think it was enought to make someone say "wow, the 24 bit one is much better!!!"
Old 15th November 2002
  #6
Dave's Analog Dither is real and works great. Like any dither, in use it's usually rather unobtrusive, but in critical listening environments differing dither algorithms do sound different.

I tend to use flat dither for most everything, but I keep this one handy as it is quite useful for smoothing out the last level of digititus common in modern productions. I also tend to over-dither when using it, choosing to use it as more of a subtle tone control than just a noise-shaped signal to toggle the LSB...

FWIW, this is the same dither algorithm utilized in the HEDD-192 and Spider - both highly acclaimed at various wordlengths.
Old 15th November 2002
  #7
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I dunno... it just sounded like the stuff that I BNR OUT of my digital audio... I prefer the sound of vinyl noise to the dither cd which sounds more like tape hiss to me.
Old 15th November 2002
  #8
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And btw, if you Do buy the 'analog' dither on the cd, don't expect any francy smancy print on the cd itself. It's basically a cd-r and nice graphic printed on a peice of photo paper. Not that it really matters to me, but my assistant couldn't seem to get over it.
Old 15th November 2002
  #9
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I bought the dither CD, and it didn't do anything for me either. Sounds like tape hiss with a little rumble. Perhaps I'll find a use for it at some point, but it seems to me there's a "placebo" effect happening here.
Old 15th November 2002
  #10
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CrazyBeast's Avatar
 

I find I like it with "rock" mixes. Other stuff I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm too deaf to notice much difference...
Old 16th November 2002
  #11
Quote:
Originally posted by Albert
Perhaps I'll find a use for it at some point, but it seems to me there's a "placebo" effect happening here.
Nice condescending attitude you got there...

Believe it or not, there are appropriate times and uses for many tools, including this one.

Or perhaps I just don't know what I'm doing...
Old 16th November 2002
  #12
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Quote:
Nice condescending attitude you got there...
Brad, I'm surprised at you for that, and more than a little dissapointed.

My comment was an honest one, an accurate description of my impression of the what the analog dither CD did or didn't do for me in my application of it. Nothing condescending about my statement at all, certainly not intended that way.

I know you work with CraneSong, and I have nothing but the highest regard for their work and the quality of their products. But you need to take a step back and avoid the personal attacks when someone doesn't drool over one of their products. I paid my money for the analog dither CD, I've tested it out, and I have a right to my opinion.

Back on topic, I do agree that there may be uses for this product, but that they are quite specialized and specific. It just didn't do anything for me in any applications I tried it on. I'd be interested to know in what ways you find it useful.

Also, please avoid the personal attacks. I don't appreciate it, and it doesn't work with me. You're a professional, I'm a professional, and I prefer to leave all that kind of vibe at the door. Would you say that kind of thing to me if I was sitting next to in your room, mastering my latest project?

Thanks.
Old 16th November 2002
  #13
Quote:
Originally posted by Albert
Also, please avoid the personal attacks. I don't appreciate it, and it doesn't work with me. You're a professional, I'm a professional, and I prefer to leave all that kind of vibe at the door. Would you say that kind of thing to me if I was sitting next to in your room, mastering my latest project?
It wasn't meant as a personal attack, but how am I supposed to take a 'placebo effect' response you gave when I use this tool I my work? You are saying that those who use it aren't actully hearing it but believe we are - to me that is a personal attack.

I apologoze if it came out wrong, but my association with Crane Song does not supercede my opinion from a user standpoint. Whan I say I use something and like it, it is not becasue I worked with the company that developed it - it's becasue I like it and it helps me serve my clients.

And quite frankly, if I felt a client had so little respect for me as to question my choice of tools by wondering if I could even hear it, my response would likely be very similar to my earlier one.
Old 16th November 2002
  #14
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Hi Brad, I see how you took it now, sorry about that. My wording was certainly not terribly sensitive, and I didn't mean to belittle you in any way. Far from it, I have very high regard for you.

The thing is, I did experiment with the analog dither CD on some source material and it did *absolutely nothing* for me. I have good ears too. I would be interested to know in what situations or ways you find it to help, because I would like to get some use out of it if I can.

I do need to state though, with no intention of offending anyone, that there certainly can be a placebo effect with music gear. That's partly why we blind test stuff. My recording engineer has told me about guys who bring in some expensive piece of gear they spent a fortune on, who swear it is the best thing around. He'll then set up a blind listening test, and they can't tell it from another unit once the logo on the front is no longer a factor. That *is* a placebo effect. I'm very careful about this myself, making sure I'm hearing what I'm hearing, not hearing what I'm seeing or what I *think* I'm hearing. I subject myself to a lot of A/B/C tests, and only consider them successful if I can identify the culprits consistently. That's why I'm a bit puzzled by the raves this dither CD gets, because I just don't hear it.

Also, if I could just respond to this:

Quote:
And quite frankly, if I felt a client had so little respect for me as to question my choice of tools by wondering if I could even hear it, my response would likely be very similar to my earlier one.
Let me put it this way, if you put something into the signal chain and I didn't think it did anything for my music, I would not hesitate to say so. I would not see that as a questioning of your choice of tools or of your skills, but simply my perogative as the artist, a normal part of the collaboration that goes on throughout every stage of the music making process.

But again, I do apologize for the insensitivity of the way I made my original statement. I certainly understand now how you could have interpreted it the way you did, and I did not mean it that way at all.
Old 16th November 2002
  #15
Gotcha - I re-read it a few times to make sure I didn't misunderstand. I was a bit surprised as you've never written anything like that before. Sorry on my part.

Love that internet communication, eh?

Anyway - what you said really highlights the importance of developing a relationship with your mastering engineer. When you get find a guy that you can trust implicitly, these issues won't come up.

And if you find a guy that does insert stuff regardless of whether or not it's audible (these things are few and far between - almost anything you insert into the signal chain has somelevel of audibility, unless you're speaking of plugins that are bypassed), then it's prolly time to look around and see who else might be able to serve you...
Old 18th November 2002
  #16
Ok, now I have a question...
I'm using PT LE and most of the time I do my homemade "mastering" on it...
How should loud should I put the dither track? I just import the track and leave it alone... I alos turn off the PT dither and the L1 dither... does the T-Racks plugin adds dither????
Thanks!!!
Old 19th November 2002
  #17
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-25 db.
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