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ARE ANY OF YOU (STILL) USING NOISE-GATES ?
Old 8th October 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
that is, of course, providing Duende actually works...

That hits a little close to home this week!! hehheh
Old 8th October 2007
  #32
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you gotta laugh
Old 8th October 2007
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjoubaud View Post
nice... could you tell me a little more about the "strip silence", I've never heard of that (or maybe I did but not in english terms). Is it an option you have in Logic and PT, cause I use DP5 so...
Anyways, thank you all for the enlightening about the use(s) of Gates !!
In DP 5.12, select/highlight audio then menu Audio --> Strip Silence

Next menu item after Dither.
Old 8th October 2007
  #34
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I like to put a gate/comp after the spring reverb to get a cool slap on the snare or guitar etc - and control the fade out and attack -
Old 8th October 2007
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
you're TRACKING drums with gates?

That's got to be playing with fire...not only is it fairly pointless but you risk wrecking a great take if the gate doesn't trigger at any point.

the 2nd part makes more sense - it's the same sort of thing I descibred above.
I've worked with more than one engineer that would do this during tracking.

Best method I ever saw involved a contact trigger taped to the drum shell feeding the sidechain input to trigger the gate. The output of these devices seems to be fairly compressed in comparison to the actual drum, so you get to set a lower threshold on the gate the pick up softer hits. You avoid false triggers from other drums due to the physical isolation of the trigger. Best of both worlds.

Probably not the most practical technique for jazz or an extremely dynamic drummer, but there are definitely applications where it works great.
Old 8th October 2007
  #36
Gear Nut
 

the transient designer is good for gate-like effects, plus you never clip the transient. in fact, you can emphasize the transient if you like.
Old 9th October 2007
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucks View Post
In DP 5.12, select/highlight audio then menu Audio --> Strip Silence

Next menu item after Dither.
How did I missed that ??!!!!
Old 9th October 2007
  #38
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recky's Avatar
 

Sorry for getting slightly OT:

Does anyone know when in the 70s they started using gates? Gates are the one thing I haven't tried yet in my sick, eccentric quest for the "original" early 1970s drum sound...

Thanks!

Recky
Old 9th October 2007
  #39
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vernier's Avatar
I first saw 'em in the 60's.
Old 22nd November 2008
  #40
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The first gates I ever used were the Kepexes.....the original. Roger Mayer made gates as well, the studio I bought had a rack of them.

DBX had them for the 900 rack early on. then Drawner won the war with the DS201 with built in filters to side chain.

A really pro drummer can track with gates, depending on the song. It also helps if he KNOWs you are using gates. I remember Joe Franco, one of the best, ASKING for gates on the toms.

But yes, gates are a nono on inconsistant drummers.

Strip silence. I don't use it a lot, but sometimes it can be handy, especially in conjunction with a gate. Use the front and back pads to make sure you are getting the whole note and use the strip silence to truly just get the stuff in between. It makes the gates job much easier, and therefore it is easier to set.

BUT...bleed is your friend. More often than not i find that the best use for gating is on the FX send. Gate the send instead of the audio itself. Way more natural/
Old 22nd November 2008
  #41
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If you think real time gates during mixing in a DAW have a sound, or sound bad because you don't get the full attack transient, then I can share a secret technique I use all the time. I'm surprised no one has already said this, but it is really effective. Are you ready?

I do this for kick and snare drums all the time, in ProTools LE, but should work in any program.
Duplicate the track, and shift it back in time 10ms (so it plays 10ms earlier than the original track). Use this track as the sidechain input for your gate (I do that with a pre-fade bus send, with the track output on 'no output), and set the attack time for about 5ms. There you go, you have the full transient of the drum, because the gate is fully open 5ms before the transient.
Old 22nd November 2008
  #42
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+1 Drawmer DS201. I also still have and use my DBX 904s.

Same as others, started with the Kepex then DBX in mid/late 70s. I used them on tour for many years for FOH. When I moved to the studio not to many guys were using them.

There are some really nice things you can do with them including get a real nasty gritty sound if you work the gain structure right. Let the grit on a guitar with sustain linger for awhile then bang, clamp it down.

Quote:
BUT...bleed is your friend. More often than not i find that the best use for gating is on the FX send. Gate the send instead of the audio itself. Way more natural/
+1 on this.
Old 22nd November 2008
  #43
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yeah i using sonalksis gate for kick and snare but only with sidechain!
Old 22nd November 2008
  #44
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Who here has used the Aphex 9611 Expander/Gate modules and what did you think about them?
Old 22nd November 2008
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
If you understand how to use a real gate, like a DS201, then you can have as much or as little bleed as you like; the functionality is there, it's not all open or closed - you really shouldn't boast about your naivety you know heh

That aside, they are one of the most creative boxes in the studio with a countless number of other uses
....the favourite one being as an eq just using the filters ......shave your top and bottom off with these and then show me the plugin that can do it sounding that nice........
Old 22nd November 2008
  #46
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larry b's Avatar
 

+1 on the Kepex gates
good stuff

Old 20th May 2012
  #47
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Faymus Media's Avatar
 

i use the digi gate, however i do every single hit individually so that they are all dynamic and punchy and i leave a tight tail for hit that is by it self, but numerous rolls i will take the tail out so that there is no boom or massive overtones.
Old 20th May 2012
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyRochester View Post
If you think real time gates during mixing in a DAW have a sound, or sound bad because you don't get the full attack transient, then I can share a secret technique I use all the time. I'm surprised no one has already said this, but it is really effective. Are you ready?

I do this for kick and snare drums all the time, in ProTools LE, but should work in any program.
Duplicate the track, and shift it back in time 10ms (so it plays 10ms earlier than the original track). Use this track as the sidechain input for your gate (I do that with a pre-fade bus send, with the track output on 'no output), and set the attack time for about 5ms. There you go, you have the full transient of the drum, because the gate is fully open 5ms before the transient.
Dear my 2008 self,
You can do this easier with the look ahead function, even the digi gate has this feature. Just be careful about latency introduced to the track as a result. Yes, newer versions of ProTools have latency compensation, but my 2012 self is still a bit behind the times..
Old 20th May 2012
  #49
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RJMusic's Avatar
 

I use a noise gate on most of my microphone tracks, usually becaue my computer makes a bit of a faint noise and after the tracks pile up it gets quite hearable.
I just set a low threshold on each track and it solves it along with distant vehicle noise and stuff like that.
thats if you record at home in an untreated room like myself
Old 20th May 2012
  #50
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Yes. And it's cousin, downward expansion, which can be set more forgivingly to reduce bleed without eliminating it...
Old 20th May 2012
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Well, it's pointless because it can just as easily be done afterwards.

Comparing with live sound isn't really relevant - there's lots of things that need to be done in live sound that don't in the studio. They're 2 different beasts really - same building blocks, different aims. I've never assisted on a tracking session where a gate was printed on the way in whilst tracking drums. Though I have worked on a session where we had to repair the drums where the gate hadn't been set correctly, and were destroying the transients of the toms and kick (and missing out hits on occasion too).

That's the danger of ruining a take - it certainly IS plausible. Of course, you're going to say you set your gates on the safe side, so there's no chance of any tom hits being missed (although you are shaping the sound of the gated drum to tape).

I still say it's fairly pointless, you might as well do it whilst mixing, and then you've got the option of using the overtones if you want. There's no benefit of tracking with them (unlike say compression - although there's arguments against that now too).

If you pretty much mix as you track, and always mix any material you track, then I guess it's whatever works for you. But if not, or if you send any material off to be mixed by anyone else, I'd strongly suggest not tracking with gates.
I agree completely and would like to add 2 points, 1 you have to also worry about gate chatter, and 2 the time your wasting with the drummer setting the gates could be used to get a take out of him.
I've used to use gates in the mix these days I either write mutes on the tom when mixing with analog tape, in the daw I just edit around the tom hits, I do use a gate to send the snare to the reverb.
Old 20th May 2012
  #52
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I use Aphex 622. It's great.
Old 20th May 2012
  #53
I've never used a hardware gate and have mainly used SW gates as a utility for cleaning up a compromised recording; however, I started to try out the 'SSL-style' gates on the mixer in Reason and found that they can be of use in shaping the 'presence tonality' and dynamics of e.g. a guitar track or vocal.

Sometimes engaging a gate shifts the sound to better emulate a classic industry flavour and I guess this is because HW gates were/are used widely in professional studios.
Old 20th May 2012
  #54
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I use gates all the time, but more as a creative effect - gating reverbs, sidechain gating etc.. sometimes gating a whole section - as in orchestral section - so the ambience and note tails dont clutter a mix..

As for cleaning stuff up, I only do that by hand on vocals so to have direct control over breathing and other noises -which are sometimes a good thing.

If you need to gate a snare, let the gear do it for you but as already said, bleed, room noise, bangs and crashes are sometimes your friend
Old 20th May 2012
  #55
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If manual editing counts, then - yes - I do it all the time.

I have a hardware gate/expander/compressor (DBX 1066), but I like the results better when I do it in audio editor by hand.
Old 20th May 2012
  #56
I have Aphex 612 gates here. Very powerful tools. They are expanders. I have used them to un-compress tracks. The filters are fantastic, I use those in key listen mode all the time, great for reverb sends, fizzy guitars, low end on hi-hats, etc.
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