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Pro Tools ? Cubebase ?
Old 22nd September 2007
  #1
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AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Pro Tools ? Cubebase ?

A question of interest, this is not a super high end question, but what are the pros and cons of the two, this is also a question toward OTB mixing of the two softwares. I think im correct in saying that Cubebase does not such your computer to death like PT, im looking for some great response on this one.
Again this would just be a question of running the both in a basic form, no HD, no plugins, just using the tracks, editing etc. Are they that big of difference. ?
Thanks in advance.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #2
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Daniel Antix's Avatar
cubase is square now?


if you're just using cubase/protools as a hard disc recorder then i guess there isn't going to be that much of a difference... i haven't used protools for a while (i use cubase) but editing audio is pretty straight forward in both systems.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #3
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NorthernDigStar's Avatar
 

Hi there. You're lucky, I just wrote a big article on the subject in this thread:
Exploring the digital world of today

I'm a full time professional and have been so over a couple of decades. I'm sure you'll find something good in it.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #4
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zuso's Avatar
 

In general terms, (being protools le and obviously not HD) it's like comparing tangerines and clementines.

They both, in essence, do the same thing. It's just a matter if you want to limit yourself to digi hardware or not.

Cubase can run off your internal system if you want it to... (only useful if you want to do basic timeline editing on the run (ie laptop on a plane with some headphones....been there...haha)

But if you're on a desktop, then that's really irrelevant.

Digi's AD/DA is pretty good in the LE systems, better than most others, m-audio, presonus. But I've found motu and focusrite gear to be decently reliable interfaces as well, but my experiences with them isn't really extensive enough to get a tattoo of my opinions.


Now, after having to call Digi's customer service, I actually have to say there are not enough letters in the word Con, to express the Conness of their customer service. The online support/solutions are most of the time ok, if they have them up, but if you ever call that place, prepare for war.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #5
Deleted User
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1.Protools has LIMITED track count. 32 out of the box and 48 total for another $500
2. Protools does not have delay compenstion for external hardware
3. Midi in Protools falls way short compared to Cubase.
4. Protools makes you use THEIR I/O boxes

**These are the reasons I have Protoools LE with a DIGI002Rack that just sits there and doesnt get turned on. However, I can say "Yes, I have Protools" This is WHY I use Cubase for everything

1. Cubase has UNLIMITED tracks
2. Cubase has DELAY compensation for External Hardware( My verb units)
No moving tracks around to line them up after the fact,
WASTE OF TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
3. Cubase's MIDI is great and even allows me to PRINT it up in standard music notation
4. Cubase lets me use ANY I/O box I want which would include your standard Soundblaster card up to Apogee,Lynx,Mytek,Lavry etc
Old 22nd September 2007
  #6
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Thanks guys, im just starting to use Cubebase, only 16 tracks for now, i have the Firepods however i do not ues the preamps on it, i use all OTB hardware.
This is my very first computer based system, so far im loving it, automation is killer !!!, Ive never had that, even thought im mixing OTB its still useful to stable a track or two with that.
Im still learning and have learned a lot in just a few days, however i have not learned how to auto punch on Firepod yet, can anyone explain short and sweet ?
Old 22nd September 2007
  #7
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for editing:

in protools you have to create a new track if you want to record some takes and then seek the best bits out (or you try it with the browser)...

in cubase you just record on one track, and then with 2 clicks you can open this track with all the recorded bits and cut it up as you like

so, for comping its cubase

i prefer it for all other, too, just much faster in my opinion, except for doing vocal cut ups for advertising or such stuff, this is really fast on pt
Old 22nd September 2007
  #8
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To autopunch in Cubase:

Set your Left and right locators where you want the punch to be.
Record enable the track your punching on. Hit the letters I and O on your keyboard and the punch point will be set to your locators.
Hit play on the transport and away you go. If you want to do a bunch of them just set your transport panel F2, on the bottom left to STACKED mode. Enable TRANSPORT CYCLE on the transport bar and now youll have mutiple takes on the same track which you can cut, splice and dice to your hearts content.

to Go to your LEFT locator, HIT the number #1 on your number pad, hit number #2 to go to the Right locator
Old 22nd September 2007
  #9
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Unless you just want to have your sessions in PT format PTLE is no competition for Cubase SX or C4. I own both SX and PTLE 7.

Not even close. The ONLY reason to choose PTLE over the many other offerings is direct PT session compatibility... or if you just like it. Other than that you'd be much better off with Cubase, Reaper, Logic 8 or many other choices.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Unless you just want to have your sessions in PT format PTLE is no competition for Cubase SX or C4. I own both SX and PTLE 7.

Not even close. The ONLY reason to choose PTLE over the many other offerings is direct PT session compatibility... or if you just like it. Other than that you'd be much better off with Cubase, Reaper, Logic 8 or many other choices.
I have a DIGI002Rack with 7.3LE software, it sits untouched. Whats that tell ya? I use SX3 and Cubase 4. Im not a DIGI hater either, just pointing out the issues I have with it
Old 22nd September 2007
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
I have a DIGI002Rack with 7.3LE software, it sits untouched. Whats that tell ya? I use SX3 and Cubase 4. Im not a DIGI hater either, just pointing out the issues I have with it
I used to use Cubase...got to PT via Logic and haven't looked back.

PT HD compatibility is very important to me - and I need to use PT as part of my job, so it doesn't really make sense to get really quick on 2 different systems.

I don't like the lack of delay compensation, but it rarely affects me to the point where it holds me up. Likewise the 48track limit - I wanted Beat Detective and TL space so the extra track count was really a bonus. I don't think my aging G4 dual 1.25 will play back more than 48 stereo tracks anyway....

I found moving to just PT took my work up a level. I stopped using all the free little VST plugs, and also found my editing got neater and more efficient.

It also depends on background - I find PT is more "engineer"-friendly - Logic and Cubase tend more to the composition side. PT has much more comprehensive routing and side-chaining than Cubase, which means you can do all the tricks you learn on large-format consoles.

I can't see why people saying editing in Cubase is easier than PT - playlists, sample-accurate editing in arrange window, spotting audio to timecode, Beat Detective, tabbing to transient etc - I'm sure there's ways to do these in all the other programs, but none seem as flexible or easy as PT.

But - it's what you're used to...
Old 22nd September 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
for editing:

in protools you have to create a new track if you want to record some takes and then seek the best bits out (or you try it with the browser)...

in cubase you just record on one track, and then with 2 clicks you can open this track with all the recorded bits and cut it up as you like

so, for comping its cubase

i prefer it for all other, too, just much faster in my opinion, except for doing vocal cut ups for advertising or such stuff, this is really fast on pt
Tenderboy, that's just not true, as far as I'm concerned Pro Tools handles multiple takes better than any DAW i've used (logic, cubase, nuendo, sonar, DP)

You just set up one track for each source then within those tracks there are unlimited (??) playlists, comping from these is simple and very quick.

One of the main reasons you will find pro tools in most studios and never find cubase.

I don't mean to diss cubase - I used it for about 5 years and it was good but you will just never find it in a pro studio.

Its extremely rare to even find logic or nuendo let alone cubase.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #13
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Quote:
You just set up one track for each source then within those tracks there are unlimited (??) playlists, comping from these is simple and very quick.

One of the main reasons you will find pro tools in most studios and never find cubase.
I think most people just don't understand how it works in Cubase/Nuendo. Cubase does perform a "playlist" multi-take function. The difference is that it's called "lanes" and you can actually visually view the waveform in each "playlist" ("lane") simultaneously. Again, you can visually see EVERY take. It's important to repeat this because when I discovered this function I thought it was truly ground breaking.

I find this useful. When comping vocals you can see all four vocal attempts and you can visually see where the artist skipped a word, sang one word longer than another, sang something a bit louder or softer. Not only that but you can assign any number of colours to and number of regions in a take (i.e. colour everything red that seems to be a promising section of the performance. At a glance you can see where all of your favourite spots were and play back the comp with nearly no clicking.) The need to create of a "master take" playlist disappears completely.

With PT playlists I found i always had to keep a pencil and pad of paper to write down the playlist number and its attributes so i could jump back and forth. I find it dizzying every time I walk into a PT studio and have to comp.

And yes cubase does kick serious A$$ for writing but it's worth mentioning that i actually work on Logic 7 Pro, PT HD and Cubase/Nuendo full time and am very familiar with all 3 in terms of their performance in the audio-exclusive projects vs. composing. Cubase/Nuendo comes out on top for me.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealRoach View Post
I think most people just don't understand how it works in Cubase/Nuendo. Cubase does perform a "playlist" multi-take function. The difference is that it's called "lanes" and you can actually visually view the waveform in each "playlist" ("lane") simultaneously.
They dont. The problem is that people used Cubase some years ago and are really unaware of what it can do now and how it does it.

You don't see it or many other pro daws in high-end pro studios because the industry is driven by the PT format. Try editing an entire session of audio (multiple tracks 32-48) in a single folder track with blocks that represent the various parts. After doing that, editing multiple tracks in PTLE for me is every unweildy.

Just to touch on editing in that manner. Here is a audio project. It can be sliced and diced and rearranged to your hearts content in the folder track with al parts being affected. It's the little things like this in Cubase that improve the entire workflow for me. A cut or a split or edit affects all the tracks. It's super fast since the waveforms don't have to be redrawn every time. Just set markers and go.

This is a single folder track.



And you can still mix and tweak and even record to any track from there. It's the little (big) things like this that keep me away from PTLE.

Old 22nd September 2007
  #15
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealRoach View Post
I think most people just don't understand how it works in Cubase/Nuendo. Cubase does perform a "playlist" multi-take function. The difference is that it's called "lanes" and you can actually visually view the waveform in each "playlist" ("lane") simultaneously. Again, you can visually see EVERY take. It's important to repeat this because when I discovered this function I thought it was truly ground breaking.

I find this useful. When comping vocals you can see all four vocal attempts and you can visually see where the artist skipped a word, sang one word longer than another, sang something a bit louder or softer. Not only that but you can assign any number of colours to and number of regions in a take (i.e. colour everything red that seems to be a promising section of the performance. At a glance you can see where all of your favourite spots were and play back the comp with nearly no clicking.) The need to create of a "master take" playlist disappears completely.

With PT playlists I found i always had to keep a pencil and pad of paper to write down the playlist number and its attributes so i could jump back and forth. I find it dizzying every time I walk into a PT studio and have to comp.

And yes cubase does kick serious A$$ for writing but it's worth mentioning that i actually work on Logic 7 Pro, PT HD and Cubase/Nuendo full time and am very familiar with all 3 in terms of their performance in the audio-exclusive projects vs. composing. Cubase/Nuendo comes out on top for me.
You are right. This was and is truly ground breaking and most PT users still don't know what they are missing.

I love doing comps in Cubase and dread them in PT.

I never missed PT (LE, Mix+, HD) for one second after switching to Cubase/Nuendo. On the contrary. It was such a relief.

I gave up preaching to the deaf (PT die-hards) a long time ago. The Cubase/Nuendo user manuals are free to download. So if anyone really wants to know there is a way to find out.

...now this Cubase vs ProTools vs any other DAW thing has been beaten to death here a million times. DO a search!
Old 22nd September 2007
  #16
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Comping doesn't get any easier or faster than this, all the takes on the same track and always visible.

They would be named Take1, 2 or whatever if you recorded them but you can (as I did here) just drag any files in and do the same thing. I would drag in takes recorded in PTLE and comp them in Cubase in this way.

Old 22nd September 2007
  #17
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post

This is a single folder track.
Jesus! Are you working on Windows 98? heh

Your screenshot of Cubase made me embarrassed to say I'm using the same program!

To save the honor of the Cubase community, here's a screenshot how Cubase looks on my end (on Windows XP).

heh
(little joke... not to be taken serious)
Attached Thumbnails
Pro Tools ? Cubebase ?-cubase3.jpg  
Old 22nd September 2007
  #18
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
Jesus! Are you working on Windows 98? heh

Your screenshot of Cubase made me embarrassed to say I'm using the same program!

To save the honor of the Cubase community, here's a screenshot how Cubase looks on my end (on Windows XP).

heh
(little joke... not to be taken serious)

If ya gonna represent Cubase then at least COLOR the tracks, makes it look all candy likeheh
Old 22nd September 2007
  #19
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Comping doesn't get any easier or faster than this, all the takes on the same track and always visible.

They would be named Take1, 2 or whatever if you recorded them but you can (as I did here) just drag any files in and do the same thing. I would drag in takes recorded in PTLE and comp them in Cubase in this way.
I actually prefer the other method in Cubase where you have a single track/event view in the arrange window, but when you double click the audio event, an edit window opens up with all the lanes, where you see all your takes.

There I can solo-listen on the individual track, slice them and mute/unmute parts to my liking. When finished I close the edit window and have one neat track in the arrange window.

Can't get any better!
Old 22nd September 2007
  #20
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
If ya gonna represent Cubase then at least COLOR the tracks, makes it look all candy likeheh
Yeah, yeah... I know. Let me go back and pull another jpg...
Old 22nd September 2007
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
They dont. The problem is that people used Cubase some years ago and are really unaware of what it can do now and how it does it.

You don't see it or many other pro daws in high-end pro studios because the industry is driven by the PT format. Try editing an entire session of audio (multiple tracks 32-48) in a single folder track with blocks that represent the various parts. After doing that, editing multiple tracks in PTLE for me is every unweildy.
Err...that's dead easy. Region group or track group. Can you edit to sample accuracy in Cubase with the folder method? (that's a genuine question, not a sarcastic comment - I'm interested to know).

I've used Cubase SX3 - I just found it took a long time to make it do anything I wanted it to do, and I didn't enjoy the experience. Obviously my lack of familiarity with it, and it didn't do things in the ways I was used to.

It's just horses for courses, as we end up saying in all these discussions. PTLE IS very limited compared to what it could be doing - but apart from the ADC for the way I work, it's never been a problem - and I like the way I work in it. As I said before, for me it's not even an issue - I have to be v quick in PT for my job, and it makes sense for me to be using PT every project I do. If I wasn't doing that, maybe I'd be more receptive to learning other systems.
Old 22nd September 2007
  #22
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
They dont. The problem is that people used Cubase some years ago and are really unaware of what it can do now and how it does it.

You don't see it or many other pro daws in high-end pro studios because the industry is driven by the PT format. Try editing an entire session of audio (multiple tracks 32-48) in a single folder track with blocks that represent the various parts. After doing that, editing multiple tracks in PTLE for me is every unweildy.

Just to touch on editing in that manner. Here is a audio project. It can be sliced and diced and rearranged to your hearts content in the folder track with al parts being affected. It's the little things like this in Cubase that improve the entire workflow for me. A cut or a split or edit affects all the tracks. It's super fast since the waveforms don't have to be redrawn every time. Just set markers and go.

This is a single folder track.



And you can still mix and tweak and even record to any track from there. It's the little (big) things like this that keep me away from PTLE.

I LOVE THOSE WORDS "Just set markers and go." thats my cup of Joe !!heh
Old 22nd September 2007
  #23
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Audio Hombre's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
I actually prefer the other method in Cubase where you have a single track/event view in the arrange window, but when you double click the audio event, an edit window opens up with all the lanes, where you see all your takes.

There I can solo-listen on the individual track, slice them and mute/unmute parts to my liking. When finished I close the edit window and have one neat track in the arrange window.

Can't get any better!
so true
Old 23rd September 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
Jesus! Are you working on Windows 98? heh

Your screenshot of Cubase made me embarrassed to say I'm using the same program!

To save the honor of the Cubase community, here's a screenshot how Cubase looks on my end (on Windows XP).

heh
(little joke... not to be taken serious)
I know, heh funny stuff.

That's running on MCE2005, Media Center. All of the "pretty things" of the OS turned off for better performance. MCE looks really sweet with that stuff turned on.

Hey, it's a daw not a showhorse!
Old 23rd September 2007
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Err...that's dead easy. Region group or track group. Can you edit to sample accuracy in Cubase with the folder method? (that's a genuine question, not a sarcastic comment - I'm interested to know).
Yup. Change the timeline to relfect samples and zoom in and out at your pleasure. Setting markers during production helps a lot. Of course you simply open the folder to get to the normal way of editing if a split needs to be adjusted on a particular track down to sample level.

There will be times when you have to occasionally peek inside the folder at an actual waveform to do final edits but it really works well.

No sarcasm taken.
Old 23rd September 2007
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
I actually prefer the other method in Cubase where you have a single track/event view in the arrange window, but when you double click the audio event, an edit window opens up with all the lanes, where you see all your takes.

There I can solo-listen on the individual track, slice them and mute/unmute parts to my liking. When finished I close the edit window and have one neat track in the arrange window.

Can't get any better!
Yeah, that's another very good way, especially if you want to quickly fill the screen up with the takes ad edit them.

I use the audition tool and do it directly from the track or the way you talk about if it's a more difficult edit.

That's what I like about Cubase, it's flexible.

Yeah, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid.
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