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Airwindows Channel- UPDATE Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
View Poll Results: Is the new saturation section an improvement?
Yes, the range of adjustment is more useful
7 Votes - 63.64%
Yes, quiet stuff is more clean and clear
0 Votes - 0%
No, I like the old Channel better
4 Votes - 36.36%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

Old 12th September 2007
  #1
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Airwindows Channel- UPDATE



http://www.airwindows.com/f/Channel.dmg

Analog Soften is the new saturation curve, at full crank it's the same as the previous one at full crank, at halfway settings it stays linear for longer and then does a smooth transition into full clip. I think this is far superior, there's always the Density plugin for reproducing the exact older plugin but why would you want to?

Slew Limit should surprise you- turn it to full crank and the sound is entirely killed, because no slew rate is permitted at all! The previous plug's Neve setting is at exactly 0.5- the other settings are somewhat or greatly less slew limiting. At 0 the slew limiting shuts off completely. At nearly full crank you'll hear an extremely powerful but unique distortion- possibly of use for special effects. This replicates my 'Slew' plugin which I'll now retire- I've rolled the full version into Channel for free.

Bass Restrict can be turned off completely by setting it to 0, at 0.5 it's the previous plug's Neve setting, and very high settings continue to be within the realm of console LF limitations, just for a worn-out console with dried-up caps, basically.

The plugin defaults to 0.5 for everything, go from there and have fun. Be careful with slew limiting settings over 0.5, you have to know what it's doing not to get in trouble. You'll hear an intensifying of the frequency range that's being throttled off by the slew-restricting, and you want to avoid this sound being obvious because if you can hear it, it's gone too far. It should be only enough to make the high frequencies cohesive and undigital. I've allowed it to go to total choking-off just because no other plugin manufacturer gives you a free slew limiter with a complete range of adjustment, and hopefully I can sell some plugins through grateful people visiting my store

The labelling on the plugin has had the 'gain' label removed from the controls, none of which are 'gain' exactly. Other plugins shall follow, in this label-cleaning process, until everything is cleaned up nicely.

Enjoy! I'm going to go post this news in a few other places- there were a lot of people using Channel, so I've just given them a present. Feels good
Old 13th September 2007
  #2
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
By the way, I'm going to add (and bump, once) that the new controls should be more compatible with DAWs like Ableton Live etc- and say that you shouldn't expect it to be a drop-in replacement for the earlier Channel, simply because the drive control is control 1 now, and before it was control 2. If you had it cranked in an earlier save, the new version will read the 'type' popup as I'm not sure how much gain, will think the 'slew' is actually full crank where you should set it to 0.5 for the old 'neve' preset, and will probably think the third control (previously nonexistent) is 0.0.

So it shouldn't BREAK anything on old mixes, per se, but you should be ready to sanity check the controls if you load up an old mix. 0.5 0.5 0.5 is your friend, you should always be able to get a 'Channel'-like sound from that, and then adjust from there (which was previously not possible :D )
Old 13th September 2007
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
supaheef's Avatar
 

You rock! I log in and find this and Logic 8 on the same day... and it's not even my birthday.

heath.
Old 13th September 2007
  #4
Thanks, downloading right now.... I'll post my comments later!
Old 13th September 2007
  #5
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by supaheef View Post
You rock! I log in and find this and Logic 8 on the same day... and it's not even my birthday.

heath.
Apple doesn't even know I exist, but they should be cheering for me- I have a BUNCH of stuff in the pipeline, it's all the same never-more-than-$60 pricing making it very available, I'm updating FREE stuff while I'm at it including some extremely effective utility stuff, I have speaker simulations also in the free zone that should be a terrific counterpart to their new guitar amp plugins (turn off their speaker models and use mine- can you do that? If not I'll have to do an amp section plugin)...

AND, I've announced that as far as I'm concerned people should get to use my plugins on all their nodes if they want, let honor dictate when you need to actually buy another copy of the plugin (like, for a whole other mix room? Or another facility? Or if you use it a lot, for money?)

Apple has made AU plugins work on distributed 'nodes', so you have to have a copy of the plugin for each node. That means ALL MY PLUGS can now be used with a DAW farm :D I don't know how many companies will make you buy a separate copy for each node, I only know that I delight in not getting in the way of my customers so you have my permission to duplicate your for-pay plug to ALL YOUR NODES.

But you have to post here and tell me how it worked! I want to hear about guys running Iron Oxide and Hard Vacuum on EVERY TRACK by duplicating them to four, six, eight nodes. 64 or 128 tracks of faux tube and tape for a total expenditure of $120? Believe it :D

Oh and if we can hear a rough of that plug-overkill mix, that would be awesome

Back to work bringing more plugs to this new, insanely great platform :D
Old 14th September 2007
  #6
I liked it, but I have to say I was satisfied with the old Channel.
The only thing I really liked on the new one is the ability to turn off the lo cut...
Thanks a lot chris!!!!!
P.S.: what do you mean by " there's always the Density plugin for reproducing the exact older plugin but why would you want to?"
Old 14th September 2007
  #7
I'm having some wierd stuff happening on tracks I have the new channel inserted.
Sometimes it just stops the sound of the track.
Sometimes it makes T-Racks stop sounding.
It's wierd because I've been using this setup everyday from weeks and never had this problem, and now it's happening quite often.

My setup is Macbook DuoCore 2Ghz, 1.25Gb RAM, HD 80, Mac OS 10.4.10, Digital Performer 5.12.

I'll probably get back to the old Channel plugin until I finish some mixing that I'm a little behind on shcedule.

Peace
Old 14th September 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 
santibanks's Avatar
Thanks so much for this ! I will try it as soon as I can
Old 15th September 2007
  #9
Well, I went back to the old channel.
With the new one inserted on the bass buss, from 10 bounces I did with DP 5.12, 8 didn't have the bass guitar playing.
So now, I went back to the old one, and everthing sounds different... need to re-adjust the mixes.
Old 16th September 2007
  #10
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
Well, I went back to the old channel.
With the new one inserted on the bass buss, from 10 bounces I did with DP 5.12, 8 didn't have the bass guitar playing.
So now, I went back to the old one, and everthing sounds different... need to re-adjust the mixes.
Oh dear o_O I wonder why DP would do that only part of the time? I've never heard of anything like that (well, now I have )
Old 23rd September 2007
  #11
Gear Addict
 
MrChang's Avatar
 

This may be a bit of a hijack, but it seems appropriate to the topic.

I had been demoing the original Channel plug-in with DP 4.6. I really liked the sound (and was planning on purchasing Iron Oxide and Logical based on that), but I had to stop using the plug-in altogether.

Ever so often when instantiated or loading a project where there is an instance already loaded, it will cause a pop (like enough to f-up your monitors... and ears!). It will then either 1) only allow audio on the left to come through 2) allow no audio to pass or 3) create something that sounds like a feedback loop.

In order to get DP audio back to square, I had to take Channel off of the track(s) that it was on. Sometimes, those issues would immediately come back if I re-instantiated Channel.

It's very random and doesn't always happen, but when it does, I nearly sh*t myself. So I had to stop using it. And that sucks because it really is a cool sounding plug-in. Maybe I'll try this newer version and see how it goes... cause I'd love to drop a few bucks on the Kagi site.

Old 23rd September 2007
  #12
When I installed the new channel, even after I went back to the old version this pop thing started happening with the Pressure plugin.
Old 23rd September 2007
  #13
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
I have had a lot of trouble with Digital Performer.

This is exactly why I make so many free plugins available, and thank goodness you can try out Channel and Pressure to see how your host application handles box-stock totally basic generic interface AU plugins before spending actual money on them... because my plugins are not doing this.

Actually, to be accurate though NOT fair, my plugins are producing the noise, but the reason as near as I've been able to work out is that DP starts the plugin up without running ANY of the initialization stuff that all plugins have. I wonder if DP only runs that from a GUI setup routine that's not present or called for in my stuff? Regardless, I absolutely cannot promise good behavior from 'most' of my plugin if you remove important parts of the code.

I guess I'm going to ask- just how important is it to you guys that you are able to run Airwindows plugins on DP? Because it is just possible that I can come up with an answer- basically set a variable which is initialized to 'false' or some arcane number, and in the main plugin check to see if it is- if not, initialize everything. I think it's possible that would do it- the trouble is, if it's just a true-false, there seems to be an even chance that even the test variable will accidentally come up saying that everything's OK- even the test-for-garbage-data variable can itself have garbage data in it.

If there was ever a good place for a petition I think this would be it... it's basically "Please waste everybody else's CPUs by a small amount to test for a condition that only happens on Digital Performer". Has anyone heard of this particular behavior happening on ANY other host, because that would be more cumulative reasons to do this? I think I could make it very unlikely to get a false positive on 'init check' simply by using a totally arbitrary 32 bit number to check against- garbage data might be true as easily as false, but it's less likely to be randomly 2347892387, for instance.

What's up? I'm at your disposal, it just requires some arguing to convince me to put in special code for a problem that is not my doing- I guess part of me wants to go 'ask DP to fix their bug!' even though I absolutely hate doing that. Logic had a control-position bug in 7 Pro that I also couldn't do anything about, and Apple fixed it in 8. I'll do whatever I can to support my users but I'd feel really stupid if I overhauled my entire product line and then DP fixed their bug...

Let me know, I'm paying close attention. If I have to do the overhaul-entire-product-line that can't happen overnight but I'm willing to do that for my customers. What I want to know most of all is if there are any other hosts that do this failing-to-init-properly, because if it's a common host bug and I can watch for it, that's defensive programming. If it's totally uncommon or especially if Digital Performer can fix it, I'd much rather they fixed it so I don't have to waste CPU for everybody else.

Which is to say, augh! I hate when stuff goes wrong :D
Old 23rd September 2007
  #14
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Or, I could make special DP builds for ALL the free plugs that won't require me to overhaul everything. In that case you could not spend money at the Kagi site but I'd be giving you some free stuff at least that was specially doctored to work with the DP bug.

Would that be a nice thing even if I can't deal with doctoring the whole product line? I'm much happier when the host vendor fixes the bug, like Apple did. But I hate disappointing people. Would you like me to... hell, I'll give it a shot, I'm going to try to make a little package with some special builds of plugs for DP. I can't guarantee it'll work, but if I'm right about what the bug is, it WILL work 99.99999999% of the time. Then when the garbage data happens to randomly match an arbitrary 32-bit number, it'll still bite ya
Old 23rd September 2007
  #15
Gear Addict
 
MrChang's Avatar
 

Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response, Chris. Based on your dedication and user support alone, I'd like to support your company.thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj
I guess I'm going to ask- just how important is it to you guys that you are able to run Airwindows plugins on DP?
I can honestly tell you that this problem has kept me from further using/purchasing your plug-ins. So that's one DP user/potential customer. Can't speak for anyone else. Is it important? Well, for me, yes. I really like what Channel does (API at 70-75... lovely) on a track insert, and found myself instantiating one on every channel before I encountered the bug. I've been dying to try Iron Oxide, as there really aren't too many tape sat plug-ins for AU. So, yes, it's important to me that these would work with DP without blowing up my eardrums and monitors.

I don't encounter this problem with any other 3rd Party plug-in manufacturers, so I'm hard-pressed to fully lay blame at MOTU's feet... as much as I would love to. After 15 years of use (and even through abysmal MOTU customer support), I'm not changing from DP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj
Or, I could make special DP builds for ALL the free plugs that won't require me to overhaul everything.
Personally, I think that may be overkill/extra work for you. Just for testing your hypothesis, you may just do Channel. Regardless of what you choose to, or not to, do, thanks for your support. (and this is for FREE plug-ins, folks!)

I'd happily beta your tweaks on Channel if you choose to go for it.

Best,

John
Old 24th September 2007
  #16
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
OK, hold onto your hats guys- I just had a LOGIC 8 USER with the same bug!

AAAAAAAA!

Can I haz personal hell???

Thrill as the certifiably insane Chris who runs Airwindows swings into action, attempting to fix bugs that are part of the host application! :D

TELL ME IF THIS WORKS. If this works, and it also works for my Logic 8 user (who says he has had this problem before and didn't tell me!) then I can has personal hell! and I'm going to drop everything and overhaul the entire product line. You heard me. *sob*

I do this for money: to me that means I have to earn it, and I don't care if my attitude here is unusual. All the better if it is. Everyone who has ever bought a plugin from me will get the update- that and 96K-savvy adjustments for everything that isn't a convolution plug hard-coded at 44.1K.

I hope it pays off with delighted customers as it's been many months coding all these plugins and suddenly I may have to overhaul ALL of them at a stroke, adding code to explicitly check whether the built in kernel:reset() routine, that must always be invoked by the host, isn't being invoked.

But first, TELL ME IF THIS WORKS. If it works, then I'm right in my deductions about what's causing the bug, and I have a mad scramble in store updating everything. The suspense is killing me

http://www.airwindows.com/f/Channel.dmg

Yes, I've replaced the released version with the new version- because for anybody who's NOT getting the bug, it shouldn't change a thing besides a variable test about 30-60 times a second. It's in the control-test code, not the main loop. If it does work tell me whether you ever get incredibly brief blips of noise like the former bug- or not even that. I think it might stop ANY bug-noise but then I thought the reset() part was being called as a matter of course too...
Old 24th September 2007
  #17
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
I just now revised it again and threw in the 96K-savvy aspects; changing the control ranges to produce the same sound for the same settings regardless of sample rate. The tone isn't changed, just where you put the sliders to achieve it- it's now consistent across all sample rates.

For some plugs I won't be able to do that, and for some there are parts of the code that are related to the Nyquist frequency and not anything else- for those, the sound will change slightly at different sample rates, typically making it sound better at 96K instead of exactly the same.

Same link, same look, new 96K-savvyness:

http://www.airwindows.com/f/Channel.dmg

I'm holding up a product release- LilAmp, and an Iron Oxide update- for this. If it works, LilAmp will be the first product to ship with all this stuff included from the start, and Iron Oxide will be the first for-pay plug to include it- so IF THIS WORKS including for my Logical user on Logic 8, there could be a DP-friendly Iron Oxide as early this week as Kagi can update it.
Old 24th September 2007
  #18
I have to mention that I haven't used Pressure BEFORE I donwloaded the 2nd Channel version.
But it happened that I used the 2nd Channel AND Pressure (for the first time) on the same session and this bug happened all the time. I couldn't even bounce to disk without having a silence bounced track... wierd.
Then I did something:
- I moved bounce start point BEFORE the start of the actual audio files...

This pretty much solved the problems

Does it make any sense now?
Old 24th September 2007
  #19
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Ah, but I can't be telling you to do things like that. If I can make it so you can use the plugs any way you want, that's what I have to do. It's the Airwindows way! :D

I've heard back from the Logic 8 guy. The build I made him, fixed the problem.

Again- does the new Channel fix the problem on Digital Performer, no matter what you do with the bounce start point?
Old 24th September 2007
  #20
Any RTAS plug ins for MacOXs any soon?
Old 24th September 2007
  #21
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Can't do that, sorry. Several hosts can use AUs, and I'm very likely about to bring about a whole new level of compatibility with Digital Performer... and there's always Logic 8...
Old 24th September 2007
  #22
Gear Addict
 
MrChang's Avatar
 

WOW! Talk about action. Super impressed, Chris. I'll put the tweaked Channel through its paces in DP after lunch. You seriously rock. thumbsup
Old 24th September 2007
  #23
I will be buying some plugs this week especially if they are going to be 96k and logic 8 savvy!
Old 24th September 2007
  #24
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Sophia Poirier of Destroy FX is helping me come up with a superior method of checking for plugin-reset, and has confirmed that hosts are not compelled to reset the plugin (any plugin) on initialization. All of the ones _I_ own do, that's all, but DP and Logic 8 don't always, under every condition, and this is NOT necessarily wrong, it's more a matter of me needing to figure out more clearly where to get this 'plugin just instantiated' information.

PROPS TO SOPHIA! All you guys owe her bigtime, she's helping me in ways I wasn't able to help myself.

Do get back to me on the updated Channel- what I did wasn't sophisticated (no pun intended ) but it should work. Basically, anybody with DP or the noise-burst bug waiting on a fix to decide to order plugins, go ahead- I'm going to let people bug me for fixes in advance of the update. So if you wanted something, you order it, and you need the fix, email me and I'll email you the fixed version of that plug on the spot, and put it in the 'fixed' pile. Then you'll get another copy when I do the big update for everybody.

It might be a few minutes before I'm ready to begin this (it's 5:51 PM here, EST) because I'm asking Sophia whether I can use her example code and whether I have the right idea of what to put in the header file to support it. If I'm doing it correctly, it's a global fix and I will go through and start updating absolutely everything that way, starting with whatever people need immediately.

Again, if all goes well (check Channel to see if the fix works for you) every plugin will be DP-savvy and Logic 8 savvy: it was my assumption that 'reset' was automatically called because MY host programs habitually called it, that was at fault. I've had that confirmed by two people now, that I was relying on a behavior that hosts aren't required to do, so it's not 'really' a host bug after all, just expecting the hosts to be extra obliging

I'm going to be glued to the computer for a while here, please feel free to buy stuff from my Kagi store and then ask for an immediate update. I'll be able to see if the purchase was made because I get a copy of the download email, so I can and will offer to update you guys ON THE SPOT for anything you buy and send you the new version by email immediately. Again, I'm just waiting to hear whether I'm implementing the new code right (and asking may I use the code snippet, since it's for commercial work). I need that confirmation because all my hosts call reset for me, so I can't reproduce the problem here, and I won't know whether it's implemented correctly or not doing anything. I'll post when I'm off and running.
Old 25th September 2007
  #25
Gear Addict
 
MrChang's Avatar
 

Well, Chris, I'm sorry to report that the new tweaks to Channel actually made the problems I am experiencing worse.

Every time I launched a project where Channel was instantiated on a track, it produced the pop and sent the track into the red, disabling DP's audio from functioning.

Same as before, I could remove the plug-in from the insert, and all was right. I then put the plug-in back on a track (without popping on instantiation, so that's a step forward), BUT moving the sliders in Channel whilst playing audio through the track produced the bug.

Yikes!

This could be reproduced every time, whereas the earlier version of Channel (with selectable Neve/API/SSL+Drive function) was more random and infrequent.

Best,

John
Old 25th September 2007
  #26
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
OK- good to hear some feedback while I wrestle with this- give me a minute, I'm going to do an alternate approach. Stand by...
Old 25th September 2007
  #27
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Okay, this is an alternate approach courtesy of Sophia.

http://www.airwindows.com/f/Channel.dmg

MrChang, what's this one doing? It like the others is working here, and it should be one of the fixes that will help Logic 8. I'm understandably very interested in whether I can also fix the problem with DP, because this time, it is _correctly_ implemented. The one I had before wasn't as well implemented.

Something's funny because moving the sliders should not have changed anything- it should be reading the sliders on a pretty consistent basis, and if it's only reading them when they're moved, it still should not have done that. However! The code that was where slider-moving might trigger it, is no longer there.

Thank you for helping me try and debug this weirdness at a distance, and does the build linked in this post change anything?
Old 25th September 2007
  #28
Gear Addict
 
MrChang's Avatar
 

I'll have to try it when I head back to the studio later tonight. I'll post as soon as I can. thumbsup
Old 25th September 2007
  #29
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
I'll be waiting anxiously, plus I'm waiting to hear whether the Logic 8 guy with 'logical' is still getting a successful fix with the new, correctly-implemented version. I think it's pretty likely that he is, I just really want to fix it for YOU. The stuff that's happening here defies understanding- 'Channel' is NOT that complicated. It's like having a 'gain' plugin freaking out. If you have the patience I'd like to make builds disabling various aspects of the plug to see what happens. I figure if I can make the plug equivalent to:

inputsample = outputsample;

and it STILL flips out, I'll know it's something with DP. And then if I can do, say

sample = *input;

*output = sample;

then I would know how to fix it for DP, it would imply that the ins and outs had to be handled in a particularly delicate way. And I'd be squalling for help on the coreaudio list, you'd better believe that.
Old 25th September 2007
  #30
Is this the same plugin that use to have Neve, Api and ssl selections?

Thanks
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