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Acoustic Drums to MIDI? Analog Processors (HW)
Old 12th September 2007
  #1
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Acoustic Drums to MIDI?

How is this possible? All the triggers i see have 1/4" or XLR outputs..
I want to use my set to program drums within logic... like play to a click with headphones and have midi information come up as I'm playing... but am not really into spending too much money.
Old 12th September 2007
  #2
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look for a used Simmons MTM. it will convert triggers to midi.
Old 12th September 2007
  #3
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travisbrown's Avatar
Alesis D4 or DM5. They are everywhere and I've had really good success with them. 12 inputs, I think.
Old 12th September 2007
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Alesis D4 or DM5. They are everywhere and I've had really good success with them. 12 inputs, I think.
hmm.. ok the research i've done is that it takes the triggers 1/4" signal, then converts it to midi, and the midi out of the DM5 would then go to my unitor 8 then into Logic?

Basically i would have to buy the triggers as well as a convertor...?

I want to be able to use my drum set as an MPC or a PadKontrol .. ideally being able to switch banks or transpose midi data to trigger different drums within one kit.
Old 12th September 2007
  #5
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Oroz's Avatar
 

An option would be Melodyne, one its great features is converting Audio to MIDI:http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.ph...iomidi&L=1&L=0
Old 12th September 2007
  #6
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
hmm.. ok the research i've done is that it takes the triggers 1/4" signal, then converts it to midi, and the midi out of the DM5 would then go to my unitor 8 then into Logic?

Basically i would have to buy the triggers as well as a convertor...?

I want to be able to use my drum set as an MPC or a PadKontrol .. ideally being able to switch banks or transpose midi data to trigger different drums within one kit.
Ah, I misread you. I thought you already had the triggers.

You can make cheap triggers out of piezo buzzers from Radio Shack.

Otherwise, there are plugins that will create midi events from audio tracks. Digital Performer 5 has it built in. I don't know if Logic does.

Orox suggests Melodyne.
Old 12th September 2007
  #7
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el cochino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Otherwise, there are plugins that will create midi events from audio tracks. Digital Performer 5 has it built in. I don't know if Logic does.
Yes, Logic has an audio to midi function, as well.
Old 12th September 2007
  #8
CKK
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CKK's Avatar
 

I would record the drums as good as possible and use the audio to midi funktion in logic. That way you could blend the signals for realisme.

heh
Old 12th September 2007
  #9
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e-cue's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
I want to be able to use my drum set as an MPC or a PadKontrol .. ideally being able to switch banks or transpose midi data to trigger different drums within one kit.
I'd suggest an alesis drum brain. I have my stock kits setup in a Forat F16 I go into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroz View Post
An option would be Melodyne, one its great features is converting Audio to MIDI:http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.ph...iomidi&L=1&L=0
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Digital Performer 5 has it built in. I don't know if Logic does.

Orox suggests Melodyne.
Quote:
Originally Posted by el cochino View Post
Yes, Logic has an audio to midi function, as well.
I had no idea Logic, DP, and Melodyne did it in realtime. Aren't there latency issues?
Old 12th September 2007
  #10
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el cochino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-cue View Post
I had no idea Logic, DP, and Melodyne did it in realtime. Aren't there latency issues?
It's not a realtime function in Logic.
Old 12th September 2007
  #11
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umlaat.
Electronic Drums - Build Your Own - LOGIZTIX
for how to build drum triggers.
(about a couple of buks per trigger.)
attach trigger to acoustic drum.
trigger>>>drum brain (eg alesis dm series or some other drum brain)>>>>midi output.
record as midi tracks.
if u google u can also find info on diy building of a module to convert the trigger pukses to midi.
eg....
MegaDrum MIDI Trigger
if on pc and u need to do low level mucking around with midi data n splitting off
midi drum traks to individual drum traks.
ie..bass on one trak , snare on another etc etc.
check out powertracks that i use...(pgmusic.com for demo.)
huge midi feature list. even has a drum machine built in the software.
also check out the REAL drums feature lots of folks are going nuts over.
might save you lots of time laying down drums.
this is real top studio musician acoustic drum tracks in very high quality audio traks in
different styles.
Old 12th September 2007
  #12
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

I've used drumagog to sum midi as well.
Old 13th September 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e-cue View Post
I'd suggest an alesis drum brain. I have my stock kits setup in a Forat F16 I go into.

That is, like, SO retro dude! Ever try a BEL delay?! God I'm feelin' old...
Old 13th September 2007
  #14
Gear Head
 

If you are using a VST-compatible host, try this great freeware plug.

Koen Tanghe @ Smartelectronix : KTDrumTrigger
Old 13th September 2007
  #15
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AmplitudeAudio's Avatar
 

thumbsup for KTDrumTrigger it works great and it's free!
Old 13th September 2007
  #16
Quote:
Basically i would have to buy the triggers as well as a convertor...?
yes. electronic drums are a lil complcated but can be built for cheap.

Harmony Central: Electronic Drum Web

Pulse TK-5 Acoustic Trigger 5-Piece Set go for $35
alesis d4 go for about $250 used.
theres a million ways to do electronic drums. run a search there are a few threads here already.


Quote:
How is this possible? All the triggers i see have 1/4" or XLR outputs..
1/4" out of the trigger -> goes to trigger in on the drum brain -> where signal is converted to midi & routed wherever you assign it.
Old 13th September 2007
  #17
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I'm just starting out in a music recording course... and I'm just trying to figure out the best way to keep my mixes consistently at a high level?
Old 13th September 2007
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corleo0267 View Post
I'm just starting out in a music recording course... and I'm just trying to figure out the best way to keep my mixes consistently at a high level?
that has more to do with micing things up well, consistant performance volume and compression & limiting on your tracks to keep levels up & balanced in the mix.
Old 13th September 2007
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevil View Post
that has more to do with micing things up well, consistant performance volume and compression & limiting on your tracks to keep levels up & balanced in the mix.
Thanx Stevil
Old 14th September 2007
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevil View Post
yes. electronic drums are a lil complcated but can be built for cheap.
1/4" out of the trigger -> goes to trigger in on the drum brain -> where signal is converted to midi & routed wherever you assign it.
so the drum brain converts audio to midi and has 1 out, sends it to my unitor 8 as if it were a sound module triggered by pads/keybd..?

how is the latency... like if i want to mix and match acoustic to midi, do i have to shift all the midi data over?




Folks using audio to midi in Logic.. how effective is it?
Old 15th September 2007
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
so the drum brain converts audio to midi and has 1 out, sends it to my unitor 8 as if it were a sound module triggered by pads/keybd..?
yeah, sorta.
i wouldnt really consider trigger output 'audio'. it's not like its sending a microphone quality signal of what it's attached to. trigger signals are more generic. but yeah thats the basic idea.

read up on that Electronic Drum Web link above & you might want to take a midi crash course to have a better understanding of your options.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
how is the latency... like if i want to mix and match acoustic to midi, do i have to shift all the midi data over?

Folks using audio to midi in Logic.. how effective is it?
as long as your player is synced up you should be fine. i dont notice any lag. of course i'm not the most anal person when it comes to recording. you can always quantize midi.
Old 15th September 2007
  #22
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jchas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
so the drum brain converts audio to midi and has 1 out, sends it to my unitor 8 as if it were a sound module triggered by pads/keybd..?
Sorta - but the input signal to the drum brain doesn't need to be audio, though it can be audio - it's more of a voltage spike. The bigger the spike, the louder the midi note 'velocity' will be. The spike can be generated by a microphone, or more often and accurately, by a piezo transducer. A microphone will pick up the bleed from surounding drums and false-trigger the input it's plugged into. A transducer can be mounted or taped right to the drum head where it senses the hit of the head to create it's signal. If the brains 'trigger-sensitivity' is set VERY sensitive it may sense other drum hits simply by the vibration of your drum hardware, but it can be (MUST be) adjusted to eliminate, or at least reduce false triggers. Since a transducer is much more sensitive to the drum hit than a microphone you get much better midi velocity dynamics.
Once the brain converts the multiple triggers into midi notes, it sends them down a single midi cable to your computer just as a keyboard sends many notes and sounds through a single cable. Since all notes will be on 1 midi channel they will typically appear on one midi track of your recording software. Once there they can be split (depending on your software) to multiple tracks for easier editing, or they can be left on 1 track for easier 'global' editing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umlaaat View Post
how is the latency... like if i want to mix and match acoustic to midi, do i have to shift all the midi data over?
Latency is determined primarilly by your convertor (drum brain) processing speed and to a lesser extent by midi-cable length. Whichever brain or convertor you use will have some latency - but it will be consistent for all notes and all songs - so once you determine exactly what the latency is, you can quickly and easilly slide the drums midi track to line up with the acoustic drums. A bigger issue is how well the dynamics line up. It takes some experimentation and time to get the acoustic drums and midi sounds to line up dynamically. It's easy to match relative volumes of loud or soft hits, but it's the particular dynamic curve that gets tricky.

For what it's worth, I did the acoustic drums/trigger thing for a while and it works fairly well - not perfectly. I found that the $3 piezo transducers from RadioShack work just fine - as long as you don't hit it with the drum sticks. But they're cheap enough to have a few extra laying around just in case. And I also used the Alesis D4 back then. The D4 works very well, The D5 and DM-Pro even better. The D4 can be readilly found in the neighborhood of $75-100. Even if you just use it for the kick drum it's worth the money you put into it. Imagine being able to mix/match the kick 'after' the fact.
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