The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Thinking about md421. That much better than a 57??? Dynamic Microphones
Old 11th September 2007
  #1
Lives for gear
 
filthyrich's Avatar
 

Thinking about md421. That much better than a 57???

It seems like this is one of the most expensive cardoid mic I see in normal use around these parts.

I know that people use this mic for just about everything that they use a 57 on...plus many use it as a kick mic.

Could I justify a purchase by the fact that I'll likely want to sell my D112 that I normally use on kick?

Other than that, what makes it that much better than a 57?

Everything I see about them on guitar talks about using it with a 57 and/or a ribbon and an LDC a couple feet away.

How do I justify this purchase in my slutty mind?


thanks,
poor rich.
Old 11th September 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 
chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyrich View Post
How do I justify this purchase in my slutty mind?
Pure oxymoron, that question is.

Pardon my Yoda-speak.

Anyway, one useful technical difference between a 57 and 421 is the 421 has a five-notch roll-off. So, it can handle and translate lows a bit better,

Other than that, it just sounds a little bit different than a 57. You have to test-drive to hear really.

You should get it. It's a staple mic. You'll always find some use for it.

I like it on clean-to-mildly-bluesy guitar stuff.
Old 11th September 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Its not a better mic its just a different flavor. It does have the variable HPF which is cool, and its got a high mid lift in a different place than the 57. They are both great mics but if I could have only one it would be a 57.
Old 11th September 2007
  #4
I want some 421s really bad. People use them on toms, kick, guitar amps. They're LDD so they definitely have a different sound than an SM 57 in theory. I thinkt's one of those dynamics mics that you might love on a lot of things like an SM 57, or you might not.
Old 11th September 2007
  #5
Gear Addict
 
hle144's Avatar
 

Sm 57's are great and affordable. I swear by the 421's. Kicks, toms, guitar amp, tamb, perc, and a few other apps.

They're great. Get the white Sennheisers if you can, sexy on toms!
Old 11th September 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Empire Prod's Avatar
 

I hate the current production model of the 421. IMHO it's a disgrace to the mic's wonderful lineage.
Old 11th September 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 
travisbrown's Avatar
421 is very different than a 57, but agreed, it is a near perfect mic. Everyone should have at least one.

Anyone using a 57 on a kick is scraping the barrel. It's not a great kick mic, but I have used them on the beater side as a second mic on smaller kicks.

421 would be a better kick mic, but not like a RE20.

The 421 5 stage roll off makes it very useful.
Old 11th September 2007
  #8
Gear Addict
 
The Reel Thing's Avatar
 

421 (the old white ones at least, i don't know about the new ones) is one of the most versatile mics i know. i've used it on literally everything, and often its sound is the solution when other mics don't seem to cut it.

they all sound very different though. i have 6 now and they all have their specific purpose. one is better for kick than all the others, one sounds great on acoustic guitars, one on 16" toms and so on. i guess it's got to do with their age.
they're great with NEVE and API type preamps. the best ones (according to my experience) are the ones with Kleintuchel connectors, i think it's the 421N.

compared to a D112 on kick, i would definitely go for the 421.

tom
Old 11th September 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
ioanni's Avatar
421 is great on horns too.

And don't forget the 441.
Old 11th September 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
 

The 421 will handle kik (the 57 won't)/toms/brass/guitars well , however the 441 will do everything that both mics will do with more fidelity if that's required - a seriously good mic for almost anything including vox and hi-hat if you can scratch up the extra $.
Cheers, Ross
Old 11th September 2007
  #11
Gear Head
 
ramzijr's Avatar
 

sounds bassier to me than the 57 .
Old 11th September 2007
  #12
I have two that I use for floor and tom, sometimes on kick if I need a little much punch than my D112, then I used either a SM57 or CAD M179 on the tom. I like to use them in combination with a SM57 on electric guitar and it's my only choice for horns...not necessarily the best ever but it's the best I have. I got both of mine for $200 each used.
Old 11th September 2007
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by upinflames View Post
I have two that I use for floor and tom, sometimes on kick if I need a little much punch than my D112, then I used either a SM57 or CAD M179 on the tom. I like to use them in combination with a SM57 on electric guitar and it's my only choice for horns...not necessarily the best ever but it's the best I have. I got both of mine for $200 each used.
For years I used the 421 on floor tom, but got a Audix D6 and found it to pick up more of the meat. For toms I aways seem to either use the 57 or the 421. Just depending on what is going on at the time.

Glenn
Old 11th September 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
 
andychamp's Avatar
I recently used a 421 in a spot usually reserved to 57s: the snare.
Aimed at the shell, about 6-8 inches away.
Preamp was a seriously overdriven CIB, with a touch of EQ (lose some low-mid wool, add a bit of trashy clang. Reminiscent of the St.Anger snare)
Old 11th September 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
filthyrich's Avatar
 

OK. So here's what I'm working with

Pres-
2 Chameleon Labs 7602's
5 SCA A-12's
3 SCA C84's
1 Studio Projects VTB1


For drums, I normally use:
Kick- D112 up close and Studio Projects C-1 out front
Snare- 57 on top and bottom
Toms- Senn e604's (i have 3)
Oheads- M.Joly modded Oktava 319's (2)
Room-Apex 205 Joly mod ribbon mic and a shure 545sd

I use these same mics for guitars, bass (with the sansamp) and vocals.

Where can I justify the 421? Toms? I can't buy 3, so unless I just want to use it just on a floor tom...

Also, those are all my pre's. I have 11 total ins..including the VTB1.

Thanks for all the great advice.
Old 11th September 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 
andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyrich View Post
Where can I justify the 421?
Wherever it sounds better / different than any of your other mics in a given situation. It's definitely a good mic to have in your locker
Old 11th September 2007
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
corworld's Avatar
 

57 to a 421 = screwdriver to a powered screwdriver
Old 11th September 2007
  #18
Gear Addict
 
GravityRobert's Avatar
 

Powered screwdrivers always die on me on the most unwanted moments, just when I need them they go dry. Manual labor ftw thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by corworld View Post
57 to a 421 = screwdriver to a powered screwdriver
Old 11th September 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
Jon Harter's Avatar
Man, I'm not sure where you could trade them out. I'd say for the 609's but as I'm sure you know, there is a major price difference.

Anyway, in comparison to 57's, I feel like 421s have just a little broader frequency response.
Old 11th September 2007
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
iflyinmymind's Avatar
 

The first time i used an old 421 on my vox ac30... it was the sound i was looking for. Full and warm. Just beautiful!!!

The 57 sounded glassy, but does not make me say, 'YEAH!!' like the 421.

Of course my vintage 421 only lasted 2 weeks and the capsule blew.. which is totally ridiculous.. but it was nice while it lasted. Just to let you know to get the capsule replaced at sennheiser it is 285.00 .. but at least it is N.O.S.

I bet you will get some sweet satisfaction by purchasing a vintage 421..


By the way it does sound great on kick and everything else.. I think i may send mine in and pay the 285.00! to have a new old stock capsule..by then the 421 will have cost me around 500 dollars.. !!! geeeeZ
Old 11th September 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 
DontLetMeDrown's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by corworld View Post
57 to a 421 = screwdriver to a powered screwdriver
Bad analogy. If anything, 57 is the phillips and 421 is the flat-head.
Old 11th September 2007
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
corworld's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
Bad analogy. If anything, 57 is the phillips and 421 is the flat-head.
I was going to type but then I was sure somebody was going to disagree
Old 11th September 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 
BLueROom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrox247 View Post
I hate the current production model of the 421. IMHO it's a disgrace to the mic's wonderful lineage.
I'm in 100% agreement.I use my 57s more than my newish 421s.
Old 11th September 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown View Post
Bad analogy. If anything, 57 is the phillips and 421 is the flat-head.
Ridiculous!! Anyone with decent engineering chops knows the 57 is the flat-head!
Old 11th September 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyrich View Post
It seems like this is one of the most expensive cardoid mic I see in normal use around these parts.
I know how you feel. I'm a low-end guy but I took the plunge on one and am VERY happy with it.

Quote:
Could I justify a purchase by the fact that I'll likely want to sell my D112 that I normally use on kick?
Keep the D112. It's a great kick mike. I have both and still use the D112 on kick.

Quote:
Other than that, what makes it that much better than a 57?
Both dynamic mics yes, but different sound. The 421 seems to smooth out the high end on distorted guitars. A little darker, a little smoother. Hmmm, I suddenly feel like a brew. Gotta go!
Old 11th September 2007
  #26
Lives for gear
 
doorknocker's Avatar
For some reason I never liked the 421 for kick dum, I got 3 old Telefunken ones , are the different in that application than the newer 421s ?. Anyway, the Telefunkens are incredible on guitar amps and a no-brainer on toms.

IMO, the 57 often works great for distorted guitars/Marshall cabs but I never liked it on clean or half-clean Fender amps. The 421 on the other hand is great on both clean and distorted amps. Just the right combo of sizzle, punch and warmth.....
Old 12th September 2007
  #27
Lives for gear
 
BLueROom's Avatar
 

Has anyone else noticed a large difference between the new 421s and the old ones? I find very few uses for my 1 year old 421 that I don't prefer an i5 or a 57 on.
Old 12th September 2007
  #28
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

1. I have never liked the 421 on a kick, love it live though.
2. SM57 , unless you are broke you should have your head checked out if you are using it on a kick.
3. D112 works best 4 me on a kick.
4. 414 and c3000 are my favorites on guitar amps. AKG
5. Last but least, Neumann 82i is the ticket on any Live Chorus recording as a middle mic, just thought i would throw that in the hat...lol
Old 12th September 2007
  #29
Gear Nut
 
jackrabbit's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyrich View Post
Pres-
2 Chameleon Labs 7602's
5 SCA A-12's
3 SCA C84's
1 Studio Projects VTB1


For drums, I normally use:
Kick- D112 up close and Studio Projects C-1 out front
Snare- 57 on top and bottom
Toms- Senn e604's (i have 3)
Oheads- M.Joly modded Oktava 319's (2)
Room-Apex 205 Joly mod ribbon mic and a shure 545sd

I use these same mics for guitars, bass (with the sansamp) and vocals.

Where can I justify the 421? Toms? I can't buy 3, so unless I just want to use it just on a floor tom...

Also, those are all my pre's. I have 11 total ins..including the VTB1.

Thanks for all the great advice.
- You could switch it out with the D112 on kick for a different kick sound.
- You can run it through your VTB1, mess with the impediance, and get lots of good sounds (it sounds good with that pre),
- It sounds great of male rock vocals when you don't want that "condenser sound"
- You can now do all those classic recording techniques that combine a 57 and 421 on a guitar cab.
- When i bought my first 421 (ebay for 250 CND), i felt like a fool for spending money on other dynamics between the 1 or 2 hundred price range. For a little bit more you get one hell of a mic!

It will justify itself...dont worry!
Old 12th September 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
 

In the studio I had between '86 and '93 I had six 421s and probebly as many 57s,

We tended to use the 421s on toms, but because inexperienced drummers would whack the 421s and ruin the mounting thing or even knock the grille off I would occasionally put up 57s.

I thought of the 421 as a slightly better version of a 57 for years.

Then I taught a recording class for a while and one of my lessons was to put a cluster of mics that included every type the studio had on a Yamaha Disclavier piano.
I'd let the students A/B all of the mics one at a tiime and I was actually quite surprised when I heard how different and truthfuly "better" a 421 sounded compared to a 57.

Now to be honest, I would want a 57 on a GTR rig in almost all situations and the same on snare.
I don't mind a 421 on kick, but prefer a D112 because it does the work for you.
The D112 is also sturdier in a live situation.

....and yes the 421s are your 'go to mic" for brass (TMPT, Bone, etc...)
Unless you have some nice ribbons.

To give credit to a 57.... I believe that all of the stuff that Don Was did at Oceanway like the geat Bonnie Raitt record and all of the stuff in the early '90s was largely 57s on toms. Those records used LOT'S of 57s and I recall using that to back up my arguement in favor of 57s.

You can buy two or three 57s for each 421 and the clips are cheaper on 57s!

I absolutely LOATHE the 421 clips.
One of the worst designed pieces of audio stuff.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
michael_krell / So much gear, so little time
21
jamesosullivan1 / High end
6
I.T. / So much gear, so little time
5
SNR / High end
7

Forum Jump
Forum Jump