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same reverb on all instruments? Modular Synthesizers
Old 10th September 2007
  #1
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same reverb on all instruments?

I have heard it is best to use the same reverb type/settings on all instruments to help reinforce/encourage the proper spatial environment.. is this correct? to make it sound like everything is in fact being played in the same location? do you apply all verb to every instrument? (like, just toss it onto the master channel?)

or do you do the same verb type, but different levels on each instrument to simulate closeness/distance?
Old 10th September 2007
  #2
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BLueROom's Avatar
 

I tend to use a completely different verb on the vocals than I do on drums. If I do use reverb on anything else, I'll blend in the drum verb bus. So my short answer is yes, I use one for instruments and one for vocals.
Old 10th September 2007
  #3
CKK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEcho View Post
- or do you do the same verb type, but different levels on each instrument to simulate closeness/distance?
Yes.
Old 10th September 2007
  #4
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dlmorley's Avatar
If you want it to sound like everyone playing in the same room, then yes I guess!
A true stereo unit would be useful too so panning is retained..
I usually use a few reverbs though as more authentic is not necessarily "nicer"
Old 10th September 2007
  #5
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Reverb

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
If you want it to sound like everyone playing in the same room, then yes I guess!
A true stereo unit would be useful too so panning is retained..
I usually use a few reverbs though as more authentic is not necessarily "nicer"
I know that every song has it's own demands, but can you give any general stategies, or maybe talk about some specific mixes and how you "verbed" the different elements?

All best
Old 10th September 2007
  #6
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Unclenny's Avatar
I like to put up a few verbs on aux sends.....usually a medium room and a couple of different plates.

Everything gets a little of the room and usually vox and drums get some plate to fill in.....lots of ways to pan other than wide open but I tend to pan the verbs to where the instruments are.

And don't forget delays......use them similarly to place things front to back.
Old 10th September 2007
  #7
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I often use the Sony Oxford Reverb on an EMT 140 or 250 setting on an Aux track and use that on most tracks, but barely. It's just about getting a tiny bit of overall ambience. Same with timed delays though I still use effects on individual tracks too.

Lately I started to treat the Reverb returns with the BF PSA-1 plug-in and I feel like I can get a bit more impact and clarity that way.
Old 10th September 2007
  #8
starting point for "rock":

Ambience patch (RMX16 or similar) for drums - sent through the uncompressed drum bus.

Plate sound for vocals, maybe synths if needed.

Medium room for everything else.

That's a general starting point. If there's good ambience mics recorded, then the room sound will be used less or not at all.
Old 10th September 2007
  #9
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"Verbing"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenny View Post
I like to put up a few verbs on aux sends.....usually a medium room and a couple of different plates.

Everything gets a little of the room and usually vox and drums get some plate to fill in.....lots of ways to pan other than wide open but I tend to pan the verbs to where the instruments are.

And don't forget delays......use them similarly to place things front to back.
Sorry, didn't mean to take over the tread, but.......

Do lower frequencies (Bass, etc.) get treated differently than higher frequencies? Any kind of such rules or principles?
Old 10th September 2007
  #10
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
Sorry, didn't mean to take over the tread, but.......

Do lower frequencies (Bass, etc.) get treated differently than higher frequencies? Any kind of such rules or principles?
Lower frequencies tend to muddy up a verb substantially. It's a good idea to either keep those sources fairly dry, or to high pass the send.
Old 10th September 2007
  #11
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What to do depends on the style of music and the way you want it to sound. I have used 7 or more different reverbs on 1 song and none on others. Just depends on what you are seeking.

Natural = one reverb
Artificial/produced = lots of different kinds

Harrie
Old 10th September 2007
  #12
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jamwerks's Avatar
 

Verbs

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrox247 View Post
Lower frequencies tend to muddy up a verb substantially. It's a good idea to either keep those sources fairly dry, or to high pass the send.
Interesting !! So you would high pass the send on the Bass so that just the attack artifacts and upper partials of the Bass get treated by a little verb? At what frequency would that be at more or less?

Thanks in advance.......
Old 10th September 2007
  #13
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If a reverb need the baas to be cut depends on the sound of the room you record in. When it has already a lot of low freq reverb because of the lack of basstrapping then it is needed to lowcut the reverb send. Or adjust the eq in the reverbmachine.

Harrie
Old 12th September 2007
  #14
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if I were to make a send for reverb, and just wanted it to be the verb (because the dry signal is already going to the master out, and I dont want double the dry) then is it best to make the verbs mix 100% wet?
Old 12th September 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEcho View Post
if I were to make a send for reverb, and just wanted it to be the verb (because the dry signal is already going to the master out, and I dont want double the dry) then is it best to make the verbs mix 100% wet?
Yes. That's the way it's done with aux sends...100% wet on effects
Old 12th September 2007
  #16
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Putting a tiny bit of something across the whole mix can help too, when things need some glue - playing with the reverb mix before it hits the final compressor can add some missing spacial stuff
Depends on the material of course
Old 12th September 2007
  #17
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I always use the same reverb on everything, except for when I don't. Which is sometimes but not always, and definitely not never.
Old 12th September 2007
  #18
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
Interesting !! So you would high pass the send on the Bass so that just the attack artifacts and upper partials of the Bass get treated by a little verb? At what frequency would that be at more or less?

Thanks in advance.......
As high as 820 cycles, but 220 - 390 would be more typical. Just avoiding any bass build up in the reverb.Cleans things up nicely.
Old 12th September 2007
  #19
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
I always use the same reverb on everything, except for when I don't. Which is sometimes but not always, and definitely not never.
Finally, some clarity on the subject! thumbsup
Old 12th September 2007
  #20
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
I know that every song has it's own demands, but can you give any general stategies, or maybe talk about some specific mixes and how you "verbed" the different elements?

All best
Hi

as you say each song is different and I do a lot of electronic music which doesn't have to sound natural..but I do like long reverbs on say 1 or 2 instruments in a mix and then a more natural room for drums and vocals. Also layering reverbs is a very nice thing. 2 slightly different rooms on the same instrument can sound better than a sole reverb.
Also, I like the old sabbath style thing of long reverb panned opposite to say the guitar. Can give a huge sound stage, but you wouldn't want that on more than 1 instrument really...
Lot's of possibilities...
Old 12th September 2007
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenny View Post
I like to put up a few verbs on aux sends.....usually a medium room and a couple of different plates.

Everything gets a little of the room and usually vox and drums get some plate to fill in.....lots of ways to pan other than wide open but I tend to pan the verbs to where the instruments are.

And don't forget delays......use them similarly to place things front to back.
Yup what he said!
Old 12th September 2007
  #22
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So, when you send something through a reverb as a send, it gets automatically placed in the center? and you have to then pan the FX where you want it?

if you wanted to put two guitars through verb, you would have to then put them through different verbs (might as well use inserts if you need to pan each one individually right?) othewise youd have to make several sends panned to a certain location..
Old 13th September 2007
  #23
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Unclenny's Avatar
I'll set a verb up on a stereo aux track (Bus 3-4). I'm PTLE, by the way.

I may send three guit tracks, heck I may send everything but the kitchen sink, through that aux, using the send faders to govern the amount sent. I will then pan each one to the desired location on each track.
Old 13th September 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEcho View Post
So, when you send something through a reverb as a send, it gets automatically placed in the center? and you have to then pan the FX where you want it?

if you wanted to put two guitars through verb, you would have to then put them through different verbs (might as well use inserts if you need to pan each one individually right?) othewise youd have to make several sends panned to a certain location..

If I understand what you are saying correctly then I think that you need to get a better understand of what reverb as ambience is being used for and how you accomplish it.

You want the reverb (or actual room mics) that are providing ambience to give the illusion of space.
As a consequence, you want them to be stereo, quad or 5.1 or what-ever sound firld you are mixing for.

If you put a reverb or ambience effect on an insert of an individual channel you will have the instrument and the reverb/ambience appearing ONLY in the spot the effected source's channel is panned.
Actual ambience comes from all around the listener in real life, so this is what a stereo return is for.

In all of my years of mixing I have seldomly ever used a stereo input to a reverb.
I use one input, but the return will be stereo.
This is how it has been done for years in the real world.
Even with a great revern like a Lexicon 480 or better you cannot really tell that you are sending paned SENDS to the unit.
It all comes out as reverb.
There are other FX in some devices that do utilize the stereo input however.

For what it is worth here's my usual pop/rock/C&W/what-ever set-up:

VERY short room or early reflection ambience only
I will send kick, snare, toms, occasionally OHs, GTRs, certian KYBDs and anything else that I want to sound like a BAND or ensemble playing in a space or room.
I don't havce the GTRs or KYBDs in this effect enough that you can hear it UNTIL THERE IS A HOLE. If maybe the drums were at say 100% then the GTRs and stuff would be at 50%.
If there is a good ambience on the drums (say they were recorded in a good room) I would use that and match the short room/ early reflection to match or complement that.

1.2 or shorter room-ish reverb on snare if the room mics don't have enough mojo.
Just something to maybe "help" te snare if it needs it, but nothing long or obvious.
NO MORE gated stuff since the '80s!

DELAY on vocals, but occasionally a bit of short reverb as well.... unless I am being forced to emulate a Celine Dionne or Julio Eglesias record and then I'll use a longer 2.0 to 2.4 sec. type reverb. This would be a Lexicon like a 224, 480, 200, etc...

Here's the REAL trick to reverb...

Set up whatever you think sounds good and when you are happy with how it sounds... TURN DOWN THE FX!
I learned this from two VERY experienced mixers years ago.

If I can HEAR the FX while the song is rocking along... there's TOO MUCH FX!

I just want there to be a sense of space, ambience or room in the holes.
I could probebly tell it was there if I toggled the return off and on, but it should NEVER sound like a reverb device.

FX are the biggest killers of mixes.
Nothing says "amature or beginner" more than over-use of FX.
It is a very common mistake.

Use taste and then TURN BACK THE FX!
Old 13th September 2007
  #25
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Lucin Niega's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenny View Post
And don't forget delays......use them similarly to place things front to back.
Is your aux output going to the channel insert? On placing with delays, are you using these on an insert in series with the effect return? If so, which comes first, the reverb or the delay? I assume that you are not using feedback on any of the delays. Is this right?
Old 13th September 2007
  #26
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vernier's Avatar
Some of the best studios had one chamber, back in the day.
Old 13th September 2007
  #27
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Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucin Niega View Post
Is your aux output going to the channel insert? On placing with delays, are you using these on an insert in series with the effect return? If so, which comes first, the reverb or the delay? I assume that you are not using feedback on any of the delays. Is this right?
For me delay decisions tend to be more track specific.....set up as an insert, while verbs tend to be more broadly applied....set up as an aux send.
Occasionally I'll use a short delay on an aux send.
As far as feedback goes.....sometimes. Time your delays by setting up a long feedback and listening to get it right....then bring the feedback back to where you want it

In those cases, as with the verbs, the aux send output goes to the mix bus or simply to analog out and selected channels are bussed to that aux as 'sends' whose faders are brought up judiciously under the original signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
Use taste and then TURN BACK THE FX!
All of us who are still trying to get a grip on this subject would do well to re-read this post.
Old 13th September 2007
  #28
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dokushoka's Avatar
 

I'm a reverb nut.

I typically use 7 or 8 different reverb/delay boxes on a mix and that is ignoring plugins...
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