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Hmmm... YouTube "star" actually a Major Label Plant Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 9th September 2007
  #31
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Gregg Sartiano's Avatar
 

You guys have it all wrong.

2.3 million views.

An artist/video producer who, one way or another, DID draw eyes to the screen.

Cover songs -- the artist didn't create those melodies.

--

In a world where intellectual property is respected, the network provider and artist/video producer would share the ad revenue while songwriter would draw residual income.

Instead, the score is: YouTube, everything...creative entities nothing.
And with THAT ad revenue (prob. about $15k, maybe more with tie-ins), someone in Silicon Valley bought a car.

--

And don't give me the "the artist got promotional exposure from it" argument. That cuts both ways, you know. YouTube got promotional exposure from that artist's campaign.

Now with one million iPhones having been sold (with seamless YouTube integration), I am waiting for Chad Hurley to come through on his promise (from earlier this year) of sharing revenue with popular video producers.

YouTube Revenue-Sharing Makes Dollars and Sense | Searchviews - Daily insights on Search Marketing, Social Media and SEO by Reprise Media.
Old 9th September 2007
  #32
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post

Hollywood Records is not fooling the public with her talent, they just figured out a clever way to get her viewed.
Either way, we're talking about it.

And I like that we're hearing a new singer accompanied only by her own guitar playing.

And probably without autotune.
Old 9th September 2007
  #33
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
She's not Joni Mitchell, but from what I've heard she's alright. And what's wrong with a little self-promotion? Her story about the label sitting on her record is probably true. I think there's probably a limited market for this kind of music. I can imagine they might not exactly be rushing to put a bunch of money behind her absent some self-generated buzz.
Old 9th September 2007
  #34
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
She's not Joni Mitchell, but from what I've heard she's alright. And what's wrong with a little self-promotion? Her story about the label sitting on her record is probably true. I think there's probably a limited market for this kind of music. I can imagine they might not exactly be rushing to put a bunch of money behind her absent some self-generated buzz.
If by limited you mean 500,000 to 1,000,000 units, then you're probably right.
Hollywood Records right now has a great machine for selling to the teen market.
When most other labels acts can't sell 25,000 units, Disney knows their market and how to sell to them. The original High School musical sold 4 million units.

And with albums from:
High School Musical 2, Miley Cyrus, Raven Symone, The Cheetah Girls, Aly & AJ, Jonas Brothers. Trust me, she's in good company to sell to an exact demographic.

And for the gentlemen who said she's "Dead, Dead Dead"... you really don't understand this age group and what drives them.
Old 9th September 2007
  #35
i think the big news here is that Rupert Murdoch's latest acquisition is still printing actual journalism.
but i guess music is a safe topic
Old 9th September 2007
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLueROom View Post
[snip]...

Have any of your heard of her before this? ...[/snip]
I saw part of one of her videos when someone posted something like "Can you believe this girl has got 250,000 views on YT?"

I wasn't impressed by her, I thought she was far from compelling in any way -- but I was intrigued by the YT folk phenomenon, where mediocre or just plain beginner singer/musicians rack up tens of thousands of views... that really is interesting.

Of course, maybe they were all major label ringers, their view counts driven up by page request bots...

heh
Old 9th September 2007
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

So, this naive 20 yr. old talks to the media for an hour on the phone, spilling her gutts, or heart out to him, right! All the while she is thinking to herself, wow, I am getting all this great publicity! Wow, whoopie, gee!

Welcome to the real world young lady!
Old 9th September 2007
  #38
Gear Nut
 
3db@1K's Avatar
 

Maybe I can shed some light on this for you guys. I mixed the songs which ended up eventually as an EP.

She had completed a record on Hollywood and they were not going to put it out until next year. So she had made a few You-Tube videos of her playing/sing with her gtr at her house. The one that blew up was Umbrella. So this was not only and opportunity for the label to introduce her to the public but put them in a situation to get a song out with their new artist. Hollywood got my friend Mike Daly(producer on these 4 songs) involved who had written with Marie' in the past. So Mike cut Umbrella with her at Glennwood Place with Kenny and I mixed the song at Mike's studio in Burbank. The idea was to get that sitting in the bedroom playing with friends type of vibe.

A week and I really mean a week later 98.7 here in LA was playing The song and people were responding heavily to the version. So now what to do. You have this artist with a lot of heat and only one song (cover) to sell. The record is more pop oriented and people are responding to her more as this acoustical/folk/Vocalist. So we cut and EP the same way in the same vibe as before (Kenny Tracked I Mixed same Places) to have a few more songs and a package to sell as an EP on iTunes.

Now she never said she was not signed. Her interest did start from a You-tube video. As far as the DJ claiming they found her on you tube. I am not sure what he said I did not hear him. I do know that is where a lot of people found her, record label or not.

I do think it is important for artist to have a story and Marie's is genuine. Her voice is what people are falling in love with, cover song or original. IMO There was no deception involved just doing the best with the situation at hand. We can not blame her or her label if people thought she was not signed. Why that would make a difference to someone anyway I have no idea. I hope people will enjoy her as an artist and not judge her for when someone knew she was on a label or not.

Hope I have help to change someone's mind on this situation. She is truly a talented woman and a great musician.
Old 9th September 2007
  #39
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
2nd: Do any of you who don't like what the label has done, do you have kids in that age group?
I have 4 kids ages 10-16 and I asked them last night if it bothered them that her label did this. The answering was a resounding no!

If she comes out with an album they like, they will listen to it.

ahh, but therein lays the rub. they will *listen* to it, but they will not *buy* it. the majority of teens/tweens will either p2p or nab it from their friend's ipod. ingenious marketing? what matters genius when the ship is sinking? 15 minutes of fame is no longer a sustainable business model for the majors.

now, give me a youtube phenom, real or manufactured, that speaks to 30-somethings and only gets better with multiple successive albums... THAT's a brilliant strategy. this? this is payola meets the brave new world, ho-hum.

this is the essence of the industry's current downward spiral: their product and their marketing appeals to younger and younger crowds who have rapidly-changing tastes, malleable ethics, and zero long-term loyalty. the people who are not fooled by or impressed by these artists and tactics --- adults --- are the only ones likely to part with cash for music, and they are doing so less and less every day.

and does anybody believe that her phenomenal youtube 'hit count' was not largely bought and paid for? is there any credible basis for believing that *any* part of her success story was not manufactured? i don't know what's what, but that's the point... the deception we know about casts a shadow on the whole affair.

as for there not being any such thing as bad publicity... tell that to larry craig. if your 'hook' is that you're a homespun success, and this forms the basis for your fans' loyalty, i see this kind of damage of trust and credibility as fatal.

time will tell, i suppose.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 9th September 2007
  #40
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Cojo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
She is truly a talented woman and a great musician.
Absolutely!

She can sing, play guitar and play the piano! What can Rhianna do??? More than to look sexy? I'm sure she can't sing!

I think this thread is just showing envy from a lot of people. If she got help from a label or not does not make her less talanted in my eyes. The strange thing is that if it was a small indie label that stod behind her the same people who dislike this "you tube strategy" probably would salute it!


Go Marie, go!
Old 9th September 2007
  #41
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Now she never said she was not signed.

the wsj story claims otherwise, her myspace page 'label affiliation' tag was 'none', until the story broke, whereupon it changed to 'major'.

is this information mistaken?

i don't think anyone here is opposed to an artist being signed to a label, to the label backing the artist, promoting them, funding them, producing the music, whatever. i think what people object to is the air of deception that surrounds the portrayal of digby as a homespun anonymous kitten randomly rising thru the ranks of youtube.

she was booked on carson daly's show via the major's promo dept., and the show still presented her as a homespun youtube phenom. that strikes me as fundamentally dishonest.

gregg sartiano's points about the $ are well taken as well. all of this stuff infuses the air of distrust that's eroding the machine.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 9th September 2007
  #42
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logicll's Avatar
 

I hate the "music" industry....And I loath fake c*nts trying to get famous by being cute....fake bi*ch....
Old 9th September 2007
  #43
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by logicll View Post
I hate the "music" industry....And I loath fake c*nts trying to get famous by being cute....fake bi*ch....
Tell us how you really feel ?heh
Old 9th September 2007
  #44
Gear Head
 

WSJ & YouTube = Owned by Rubert Murdoch

You have just been punked!

Its not about anything except to show labels how to make money with Youtube in the future.

more later...
Old 9th September 2007
  #45
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

What is happening now is the "We discovered this artist on Youtube" phenomenon.

Which is cynical and growing tiresome because it is being manipulated by record companies to sell their wares and it is so transparent, blatant and shameless.

The idea that in order for an artist to be 'Credible' they have to be 'discovered' from their itsy bedroom somewhere in some quiet cute nowhere backwater and then thrust oh so unexpectedly into the big showbiz world ("I would never believe this could happen to little old me!") is empty and pathetic.

It reeks of corporate ethics. 'let's sell this artist by pretending they came from nowhere, that's what the kids think is real', why? - because it allows the kids to claim 'ownership' of the artist and it allows them to 'mistakenly' feel it was they who were responsible for getting her noticed and signed.

Will this girl last more that her 15 minutes, we'll see... Does her record company give a damn? - I very much doubt it, they probably already have another 3 'undiscovered' Youtube Phenoms ready to go if this one crashes and burns.
Old 9th September 2007
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
and does anybody believe that her phenomenal youtube 'hit count' was not largely bought and paid for?
I second that.

I dont buy the whole "the label didnt want to release her record, so she just decided to put up a few youtube videos to draw attention to her and force the label to release something".



Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
The idea that in order for an artist to be 'Credible' they have to be 'discovered' from their itsy bedroom somewhere in some quiet cute nowhere backwater and then thrust oh so unexpectedly into the big showbiz world ("I would never believe this could happen to little old me!") is empty and pathetic.
Not if that's how it really happened... people always liked acts who are real people, and achieved their "success" without the help of a corporate company. The audience builds careers these days. It's no longer MTV or Radio. It's all about word of mouth. That's why those type of stories are so interesting. It gives the power back to the fans, and makes them think "this is OUR artist, we discovered her way before any label did"
Old 9th September 2007
  #47
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
So now you have 2 people give you a valid and sane reasoning behind the WJ piece.
A blog from the artists' website explaining what happened in the interview and an engineer who worked directly with her.
Both give you a first hand account of the progression of the videos on You Tube.

And still this does not satisfy your need to accuse the young lady of some nefarious plan to bring music to the teens of America!
Please tell me you all are not that bitter and sullen about music. LOL!!
Old 9th September 2007
  #48
Gear Maniac
 

I'm sure it's worked. Imagine she/they hadnt done this. Would she have a hope?

It's not quite the same as Lonely Girl though. There's a difference between a hoax or clever deception to create a bit of profile... and misleading the buying public.

She/her label did lie - and through this deception have sold music under false pretences. Specifically according to WSJ article, her myspace page until last week said she wasnt signed to a label. If a myspace page constitutes an advertisement for her music - and arguably it does - it is illegal to pass yourself off as representing a private individual rather than a company (it's called the "The Business Advertisement Disclosure Order 1977" in the UK, I am sure its the same in the US).

It's also immoral - nothing new for the record biz there, for sure - but I think it is the legal thing that should worry Disney if someone who bought a download fancies a pop. Why leave the music industry law suits to the RIAA?

Of course if it did become a legal dispute she would be huge news and it would help her career no end. Like when videos get banned or dotcom founders get sued. But it would be really nice if Disney/Hollywood records got properly taken to the cleaners and someone got fired and stuff like that.

;J

ps no I'm not a lawyer, I actually pay for my music habit by working in marketing & writing books about it. From that POV I think this kind of stuff sucks because it confirms everything everyone thought about marketing & the music industry - the word "exploitative" comes to mind. & we're not all that bad (although I did know one guy whose business card said "wherever you draw the line, we're below it"!) It's hard for regulators to keep up with new media, but they will get there. It wont be possible for a company to pretend to be a private individual on YouTube/MySpace for long - if indeed it's even legal now, in this case, where downloads were sold.
Old 9th September 2007
  #49
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StoneinaPond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
So now you have 2 people give you a valid and sane reasoning behind the WJ piece.
A blog from the artists' website explaining what happened in the interview and an engineer who worked directly with her.
Both give you a first hand account of the progression of the videos on You Tube.

And still this does not satisfy your need to accuse the young lady of some nefarious plan to bring music to the teens of America!
Please tell me you all are not that bitter and sullen about music. LOL!!
Not accusing the lady of anything.

But your "credible" comment misses the essential point made earlier.

Quote:
WSJ & YouTube = Owned by Rubert Murdoch
Round and round and round we go, 'till the music stops and you have no chair.
Old 9th September 2007
  #50
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Hmmm ... Her story, and [email protected]'s, are just too plausible to be true. There must be a deeper truth to the whole thing. Whatever it is, I'm sure Dick Cheney had a hand in it somewhere.
Old 9th September 2007
  #51
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that this deception is going to hurt sales for the intended demographic as Tony said, i.e. the tween/teen market. They don't care, they'll buy into whatever they're fed, so if that is the demo that Hollywood is pushing Marie Digby to, this whole escapade won't hurt her.

That said, I understand the disappointment and cynical reaction of those who aren't tweens or teens. So many music listeners today have tuned out precisely because of the perceived lack of genuineness in the music being made and/or foisted upon the public, and the way that marketing and hype has overtaken actual substance in the marketplace. There is a palpable desire for artistry and music that is not manipulated, and that includes manipulating the listeners themselves with deceptive marketing, creating false stories, etc. But then again, as it's been said, clearly this girl isn't being geared towards anyone but tweens/teens, so on that count it doesn't really matter whether there's more style than substance here, she'll probably still hit the mark with the intended demographic.
Old 9th September 2007
  #52
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pomoone View Post
WSJ & YouTube = Owned by Rubert Murdoch....
Last time I checked youtube was owned by Google!

Also, the reason they went with covers, is probably that it's easier to get hits that way. People search for the original song, and her version comes up as maybe the 5th alternative or something. Which is huge free publicity.
Old 9th September 2007
  #53
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StoneinaPond's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalle1978 View Post
Last time I checked youtube was owned by Google!
Yep, you're right. I got myspace and youtube mixed up.

Perhaps Murdoch is going after Google.

heh
Old 9th September 2007
  #54
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swafford's Avatar
 

"She says she found herself flying back to Los Angeles almost every week to play solo gigs at open-microphone nights at clubs. "

God damn, roll over Jim Croce.........
Old 9th September 2007
  #55
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bunnerabb's Avatar
Fans used to discover artists in a live setting and start a buzz. That buzz was then picked up on by A&R mooks who actually looked for new artists to sign.

The breakout was radio. They'd record the artist or band, get the pressings out to radio and if people called in and requested it or blew their lunch money on it, you had a hit.

The hit would climb the charts and people voted with their wallets.

Now, radio has no DeeJays and doesn't add content until it's been fabricated and deemed worthy of recording and promoting by a marketing study.

Radio puts the single into the wire and it's pushed to a billion markets, all at once by CCC and it's played stupid and the "fans" put it out on P2P and people just grab it for free.

This "industry" we're so fond of sticking our flags of credibility into ran on radio DeeJays, labels that promoted records and artists with an established fan base that they got by playing brilliant music at brilliant shows.

This "industry", and the things upon which it was built, are as dead as a doornail.

Dead as old Jacob Marley.

And it ain't coming back until:

Artists build a relationship with their fans.
Marketing dip****s are begging for beer money.
Radio starts hiring DeeJays who can program their own station.
Recorded music is a product, again, and not something that any ****** with a Pentium III and a CD-ROM can endlessly copy and distribute faster than Wal Mart.

This chick ain't gonna stack up to **** and neither is almost any artist being signed, today.

If Sony BMG sent me a letter offering me a 4 album contract, I'd burn it and run like hell.


.02¢
Old 9th September 2007
  #56
.

wow, what a TOTAL disappointment.....i feel SO cheated....

i guess i'll go home and decapitate the tooth fairy and easter bunny (on youtube) now.......

boo-hoo-hoo, waaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...............





coincidentally, i believe my ENTIRE LIFE SO FAR has been one GIANT major label plant -

no joke....


...
Old 9th September 2007
  #57
Gear Nut
 
Alex.T's Avatar
 

Wow

I think those Youtube videos were/are a great idea. It's a good start for sure. What she needs now are good original songs. If I was a song writer writing in her genre, I would be on the phone right now trying to get in contact with her. I really don't understand how people could have such an ultra cynical, doom and gloom reaction to a pretty girl playing some songs on her guitar. I think she's great and I really want to see her 'make it'.


_____________
Alex.T
Old 9th September 2007
  #58
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

I am just glad to see artists selling and the record business looking forward.
Old 9th September 2007
  #59
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Just a side comment: I don't think teens are all gullible morons any more than any other age group.
Old 9th September 2007
  #60
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sonicdefault's Avatar
We can expect more of the same. The big dogs will always come to muddy the water and take control.
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