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New iPod Touch + WIFI iTunes STORE (=the CD is dead) Condenser Microphones
Old 7th September 2007
  #61
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by abell1234 View Post
Nick I hear you, but that is why vinyl can save the physical format. Vinyl for audiophiles and mp3s or whatever for the rest. Its hard to listen to a vinyl or a cd while your skating downtown.
that was the straw that broke this audiophiles back.

listen i absolutely love hi-fi music, i hear it and appreciate it.

but i love MUSIC, itself, even more...

so i have vinyl at home for when i want to get geeked or really rock out...

but ive got ipod's for when i am driving,for example, without the fear of losing a cd wallet worth $1000 or more...or cds scratching from the heat of a car cd player, or the hassle of realizing,while on the freeway;"oh crap i let so and so borrow that last week and i cant listen to it now".

so all you snob purists can get off your high horses right now, cause ill still rock the joint when need be with my virgin 180 gram vinyl.

im not trying to be an ass, but people on here get all booj-wah(?)over music formats....

enjoying music ultimately is the goal...regardless of "format".
Old 7th September 2007
  #62
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kingofswing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfish View Post
you notice the drop in high freqs in da club at 105dbA? most djs i set up for have a monitor blaring at their faces that doesnt even have the frequency response to cover 20hz-20khz. i guess those that use phones might, but do you really think they'll care about not having to lug anything to a gig but their laptop, a serato, some cans, dub sack and backwoods?
Depends on the kind of DJ that we are talking about, the quality and level of work, type of clients and associated events / parties, etc.

As for the equiptment, well i'm afraid for some professional mobile dj's the above small list of gear is not quite enough. Still have to lug around the sound & light rig (tops, subs, amps, lights, etc).

My brother would not be seen dead with a laptop at a gig - it is hard enough keeping up with a fully loaded 80gb Ipod for background music, which tends to skip and pause now and then.

CDs are not a big deal in terms of weight, especially compared to like 4-5 huge metal cases of vinyl being lugged around.
Old 7th September 2007
  #63
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u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BezowinZ View Post
Recording off vinyl and getting it to an iPod is a pain.

but recording off vinyl lets you bypass the mastering job done for cd's, which pretty much sucks ass these days.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 7th September 2007
  #64
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
but recording off vinyl lets you bypass the mastering job done for cd's, which pretty much sucks ass these days.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
excellent point...what do use to accomplish said task,good sir?
Old 7th September 2007
  #65
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Great input all, but let me refocus,

the idea of the thread is for the Music Industry to ditch all Physical Media completely, so to cut all middelmans and therefore be able to offer Albums much more cheaply at $5 to $10. At those prices customers might buy again. For $5 an album it's not worth it to spend an afternoon on the Net trying to PROPERLY pirate all the 10-15 songs.

The day to get rid of all physical media for music has arrived, because we have the device that makes it possible in our own pockets: Cellphones and iPods.

The iPod Touch is a step beyond all that. It's *THE VIRTUAL CD*. The bridge between the net, the computer and our friends, music lovers.



Again, my preocupation if such a thing happens is that mp3 (as in BAD audio quality) will superceed Red Book Audio. Unlike with CDs, downloading easily allows for hi-res audio to live along with mp3s. Now, let's educate the people!



Take a look at other markets. Jeans or sport shoes for instance. Some of those shoes sell for $200 or more, and are not better than others that sell for say $20. Most probably they are ALL made in the same factory in asia by *slavery* workers.

But people still pay for the $200 ones. Why? It's just a Marketing thing.

Let's do the same with music. Choices will be:

-Free crap audio files pirated from the net, or
-Download DRM free Hi-Res audio albums for $5-$10
Old 7th September 2007
  #66
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First off it does not take all afternoon to download 10 songs. second the music industry needs to go away for awhile. What is happening is business and art don't mix. The "industry" had a good grip for a while, but with the internet came better communication and freer information. An album is a piece of art, something that was created by artist on BOTH sides of the glass. If someone would like to enjoy the art, let them. If they want to buy the art let them. The engineers get paid to record the album, and the musicians get paid by playing their art live. I don't give a f**k about some jack off in a suit trying to rip young musicians off. Sorry about the rant....um ditch CDs, bring back vinyl, and let music be free.
Old 7th September 2007
  #67
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
Great input all, but let me refocus,

the idea of the thread is for the Music Industry to ditch all Physical Media completely, so to cut all middelmans and therefore be able to offer Albums much more cheaply at $5 to $10. At those prices customers might buy again. For $5 an album it's not worth it to spend an afternoon on the Net trying to PROPERLY pirate all the 10-15 songs.

The day to get rid of all physical media for music has arrived, because we have the device that makes it possible in our own pockets: Cellphones and iPods.

The iPod Touch is a step beyond all that. It's *THE VIRTUAL CD*. The bridge between the net, the computer and our friends, music lovers.



Again, my preocupation if such a thing happens is that mp3 (as in BAD audio quality) will superceed Red Book Audio. Unlike with CDs, downloading easily allows for hi-res audio to live along with mp3s. Now, let's educate the people!



Take a look at other markets. Jeans or sport shoes for instance. Some of those shoes sell for $200 or more, and are not better than others that sell for say $20. Most probably they are ALL made in the same factory in asia by *slavery* workers.

But people still pay for the $200 ones. Why? It's just a Marketing thing.

Let's do the same with music. Choices will be:

-Free crap audio files pirated from the net, or
-Download DRM free Hi-Res audio albums for $5-$10
i understand your wanting to tighten the focus of the thread, but the questions you ask, cannot really be answered by US until we know and have discussed what we like, thats why the vinyl issue is so crucial.
Old 7th September 2007
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
Great input all, but let me refocus,

the idea of the thread is for the Music Industry to ditch all Physical Media completely, so to cut all middelmans.

I don´t see why one has to exclude the other, some people want cd´s or vinyl for that matter, Id say let them have it if they want it.

Bottom line for me is as long as everybody gets paid, I´m happy.
Old 7th September 2007
  #69
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Quote:
The day to get rid of all physical media for music has arrived, because we have the device that makes it possible in our own pockets: Cellphones and iPods.
yea, but what about people who still want to listen on their home stereos?

what about who don't have ipods or cell phones with music playing capabilities?

i see where you're going with the topic...and while the technology and means may very well exist to transfer music through solely digital means, that's a massive leap that i don't think the buying public is ready for. something else will have to exist inbetween, and i'm hoping to god that it isn't as ****ty as CD's.
Old 7th September 2007
  #70
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Mr. Quimper's Avatar
 

As a 20-something, I've maybe bought 5 physical CDs in the past 5 years.

I also don't use iTunes.

I also don't file share.

And I have a collection that's pushing 3,200 albums.

In short, I love emusic.com - 100% DRM free, $20/month gets me 75 song downloads (great system until you find a 30 track album), and they carry everything I'm interested in listening to -- some people will be put off by the lack of mainstream labels, but they have nearly every significant "indie" in the world, and as far as I'm concerned, nearly every artist worth listening to. It's rare that I'm unable to find what I'm looking for, but I suppose that's just my tastes. Also, they encode at a variable bitrate that's usually above 200kbps - more than good enough for my ears through my system.

And no, I don't work for them. haha I've just been a member since 2002 - back when they had an "all you can eat" system (which helped build my collection a lot), where $18/month got you UNLIMITED mp3 downloads. They changed their system in 2004 I believe, understandably, but they're still superior to iTunes as they allow you to re-download anything you've previously purchased in the event that you suffer a disk crash, etc...and of course, rediculously cheaper.

To me, the CD has been long dead...except for backing up my digital collection of course.
Old 7th September 2007
  #71
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God where did all the vinyl lovers come from? And where were you 15 years ago?

Buying CD's I expect.

Do you all really like the super hyped distorted top end and artificial low end you get from vinyl?

Give me a 256kbps mp3 over vinyl any day.
Old 7th September 2007
  #72
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kingofswing's Avatar
Personally i quite dislike the sound of vinyl, those horrible pops and clicks suck big time imo. Not to forget the needle jumping all over the place when things start to rock - the good old boat parties i can never forget.

and yes i would also take a well compressed 192 / 256 kbps mp3 over vinyl anyday of the week.
Old 7th September 2007
  #73
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Mr. Quimper's Avatar
 

Also, as a student, having a digital collection is pretty much a necessity. Given the size of my collection, it would be a serious pain - if not impossible - to carry it around in physical form.

Digital delivery has allowed me to expand my tastes more easily and allowed me easier access to what I already enjoy.
Old 7th September 2007
  #74
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
Apple has already set the standard. And IT WORKS.
Not for me. Not now. Not yesterday. Not anytime soon.

After being in the studio all day, popping on the phones from one of my kids iPods makes me sick to my stomach. Where had the audio quality and music quality gone???
Old 7th September 2007
  #75
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
Albums much more cheaply at $5 to $10. At those prices customers might buy again. For $5 an album it's not worth it to spend an afternoon on the Net trying to PROPERLY pirate all the 10-15 songs.
Sorry. Wrong again. Albums for $5-10 will NOT stop piracy. Making everything completely digital and downloadable will only accelerate piracy. With CD's the only real piracy comes from asia, and that is a drop in the bucket compared to illegal downloads.
Old 7th September 2007
  #76
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by abell1234 View Post
bring back vinyl, and let music be free.
WTF?!?! I think not. I kind of like eating and living in a real house instead of a cardboard box. Where did your generation figure out that music should be free?
Old 7th September 2007
  #77
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drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Quimper View Post
Also, they encode at a variable bitrate that's usually above 200kbps - more than good enough for my ears through my system.
Well.....sorry for the continued ranting, but either you either A.) have very low standards, B.) you have a truly POS system, or C.) I really don't want you working as an engineer for me or any project I'd ever care to listen to....
Old 7th September 2007
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Not for me. Not now. Not yesterday. Not anytime soon.

After being in the studio all day, popping on the phones from one of my kids iPods makes me sick to my stomach. Where had the audio quality and music quality gone???
Well, It's sad but you are in the minority.

I personally still hear a song first when I put on an ipod and a recording second and don't have a terrible problem with it.

In fact, I'd be willing to place a fair bet that at least a third of the people here that lament the demise of "audio quality" could not tell the difference between a CD and a 256kbps mp3 on iPod bud headphones.

Last edited by MarkRB; 7th September 2007 at 02:55 AM.. Reason: my speling is rubish :p
Old 7th September 2007
  #79
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB View Post
God where did all the vinyl lovers come from? And where were you 15 years ago?

Buying CD's I expect.

Do you all really like the super hyped distorted top end and artificial low end you get from vinyl?

Give me a 256kbps mp3 over vinyl any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
Personally i quite dislike the sound of vinyl, those horrible pops and clicks suck big time imo. Not to forget the needle jumping all over the place when things start to rock - the good old boat parties i can never forget.
to the former, good quality vinyl sounds a hell of a lot closer to a two-buss to my ears than a cd ever has, listen to the drums of ,say, led zeppelin 2, on an original good specimen, sometime. i am not articulate enough right now to fully explain, but there is a sound stage,stereo field difference in good vinyl that doest exist in cd, or perhaps its the reproduction equipment, or as someone alluded to, a different mastering session, but good vinyl rocks...

to the latter...quietly in the last 20 years,while WE ALL were buying cd's, the vinyl side of things got really good quality wise, the medium, the needles and the turntables themselves.

boat parties? no wonder they were skipping,surely with those blizzards that would happen
Old 7th September 2007
  #80
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
WTF?!?! I think not. I kind of like eating and living in a real house instead of a cardboard box. Where did your generation figure out that music should be free?
with all due respect, i dont think he meant fiscally "free" but more in a "unburdoned" format sense.

at least thats how i interpreted the comment.
Old 7th September 2007
  #81
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kingofswing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB View Post
Well, It's sad but you are in the minority.

I personally still hear a song first when I put on an ipod and a recording second and don't have a terrible problem with it.

In fact, I'd be willing to place a fair bet that at least a third of the people here that lament the demise of "audio quality" could not tell the difference between a CD and a 256kbps mp3 on iPod bud headphones.

I bet i could.
Old 7th September 2007
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
I bet i could.
I'd bet I could play you 3 tracks out of iPod headphones, once from CD and once from mp3 and you wouldn't get all three right.

Conditions: my choice of tracks and volume.

This is entirely hypothetical unless I win the bet :p
Old 7th September 2007
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB View Post
Well, It's sad but you are in the minority.

I personally still hear a song first when I put on an ipod and a recording second and don't have a terrible problem with it.

In fact, I'd be willing to place a fair bet that at least a third of the people here that lament the demise of "audio quality" could not tell the difference between a CD and a 256kbps mp3 on iPod bud headphones.
Why would you assume that an ipod and it´s ear buds is the only playback system people own or preffer all the time. It´s good to have a choice IMO.
Old 7th September 2007
  #84
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB View Post
Well, It's sad but you are in the minority.

I personally still hear a song first when I put on an ipod and a recording second and don't have a terrible problem with it.

In fact, I'd be willing to place a fair bet that at least a third of the people here that lament the demise of "audio quality" could not tell the difference between a CD and a 256kbps mp3 on iPod bud headphones.
No doubt I'm in the minority, but being an artist is not about following the herd. It's about leading the way, breaking new ground, opening closed minds. I see the ease and convenience of an iPod. Heck, I'd probably dig having one if they sounded better, but the beauty, texture and art of music in in the sonics, and MP3's pretty much destroy 80% of that. They are plastic, two dimensional and dead sounding to me. They rob the vibrancy and life out of the music/recording.

So here we sit. Where are we?? On an Apple forum? No........we're on a forum where there is so much debate about what mic, mic pre, converter, pt vs logic or DP, analog vs dig, ITB vs. OTB is the best. On such a forum it is absolutlely

INCONCEIVEABLE

to me that we are even having this conversation.

If we agree that this is the future, please Jules or Moderators, delete 98.7% of all the posts on this board. They are a waste of bandwidth and are virtually useless for the betterment or future of our craft.

I'll say the same thing to the 1/3 of you that I said to Mr. Quimper, if you can't hear the difference while driving 70 on the freeway with the windows down, please find another board to frequent. You should not attain to being an "audio" engineer.


Last edited by drBill; 7th September 2007 at 03:23 AM.. Reason: brain fart....
Old 7th September 2007
  #85
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilio View Post
with all due respect, i dont think he meant fiscally "free" but more in a "unburdoned" format sense.

at least thats how i interpreted the comment.
Ahhh...OK if that's the case, I appologise. Been a long day....
Old 7th September 2007
  #86
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Quote:
the difference between a CD and a 256kbps mp3 on iPod bud headphones
yea, well, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an 808 hit and a fart on earbud headphones

what's your point?
Old 7th September 2007
  #87
Gear Head
 

Kind of ironic, that it seems to be 24 bit vs. revival of vinyl... I read somewhere (probably on here) that vinyl has 30 dB dynamic range. That's equivalent to less than 5 bit (floating point)...

I enjoy vinyl for it's crunch and punch, not it's fidelity. But the aforementioned bypass of the CD-mastering does yield some fidelity these days ...

Anyway, I think hi-res will become available as soon as storage and transfer is cheap enough. And it will be soon.

I sincerely hope, though, that playback technology will keep up. That earbuds and cheap, small D/A will get much better.

Btw. regarding lossless compression. 2.5:1 seems to be a reasonable theoretical cutoff, I mean you can only discard redundant data. How much redundancy can exist within something as complex as music. Unless general midi finally gets realized as the new music standard... that'll be the day.
Old 7th September 2007
  #88
Lives for gear
 

Sorry DrBill, I will remember to whisper around you in future. I would hate to damage your bat like hearing.

OK... piss taking aside. We have had crappy, crappy delivery formats around forever.
CD's got pretty good around 1993, but any advancements since then have been largely ignored by the record buying public because they don't care or can tell the difference.

I would never attempt to suggest an mp3 is a substitute for standing infront of great monitors listening to a mix off of 1/2" but who gets to do that, as a consumer?
Old 7th September 2007
  #89
Lives for gear
 
neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
No doubt I'm in the minority, but being an artist is not about following the herd. It's about leading the way, breaking new ground, opening closed minds. I see the ease and convenience of an iPod. Heck, I'd probably dig having one if they sounded better, but the beauty, texture and art of music in in the sonics, and MP3's pretty much destroy 80% of that. They are plastic, two dimensional and dead sounding to me. They rob the vibrancy and life out of the music/recording.

So here we sit. Where are we?? On an Apple forum? No........we're on a forum where there is so much debate about what mic, mic pre, converter, pt vs logic or DP, analog vs dig, ITB vs. OTB is is absolutlely

INCONCEIVEABLE

to me that we are even having this conversation.

If we agree that this is the future, please Jules or Moderators, delete 98.7% of all the posts on this board. They are a waste of bandwidth and are virtually useless for the betterment or future of our craft.

I'll say the same thing to the 1/3 of you that I said to Mr. Quimper, if you can't hear the difference while driving 70 on the freeway with the windows down, please find another board to frequent. You should not attain to being an "audio" engineer.

all right then grandpa, its time for bed, because now your being an insufferable,crusty old dikk.

you clearly are a bit uninformed, to own and use an ipod, one need not to use codecs as full aiff/wav files aka;full cd quality will work well,at diminished storage space.

i only use the aac codec, and IT IS VERY close to cd sound,and also right there with anything radio does to its songs.

if your kids ipod music sounds like ****,thats because they are downloading crappy quality,pirated stuff.

the aac codec i use, is used with my own cd's and sound very,very good, for being 1/10th the size as original.

go pour some glenlivet over ice, because otherwise your coming off like a boorish old crank.
Old 7th September 2007
  #90
Lives for gear
 

<< the beauty, texture and art of music in in the sonics, and MP3's pretty much destroy 80% of that. >>

How many listening tests have you done to determine that? Any blind or controlled tests using various bit rates?

To say that mp3's destroy about 80% on the beauty, texture and art in music is absurd.

Maybe you heard some improperly ripped mp3's. I can't understand how you would make that comment otherwise. I have to listen very hard to hear any differences in CD VS a 320 kb mp3.
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