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New iPod Touch + WIFI iTunes STORE (=the CD is dead) Condenser Microphones
Old 6th September 2007
  #31
Lives for gear
 
neilio's Avatar
 

Related question.....

when the peeps around here DO rip(?) from vinyl, what are the parameters,most importantly, which software are you guys using?

ive done a ton in pro tools,but gawd what a pain in the ass,if the rendeing wasnt real-time,maybe pt would viable. maybe.

im thinking about purchasing something like a manley dual mono d.i. as a front end going in the cpu,if i in analog.

but then what converters?....if not using pt than i need to find a new converter(s)...

or...has anyone used the turntables that are on the market now that have the usb cable built in?

pro sumer ,i know but i am only talking about getting vinyl in...
Old 6th September 2007
  #32
Gear Head
 
PinkHumpy's Avatar
 

I have been to a few mom and pop cd stores in the last few weeks, and every time there was a crowd of teenage kids going through the vinyl. It would be funny if vinyl is what saves the cd stores. Maybe I should press my new album only on vinyl and do a digital itunes/etc. release instead of cd.

Or the artists should start doing the Prince trick and give out a free CD with ticket admission to live shows...
Old 6th September 2007
  #33
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sahiaman's Avatar
 

A friend of mine and I made his whole album on analog, and I told him to print it on a cassette. Guess what, he sold out of his intial pressings of 500 cassettes at 7 bucks a pop. People at his shows were intrigued with the cassette instead of the cd that every other band was selling. He doesn't have myspace, he doesn't even have a website. If you want his music, its cassette, live show, or nothing.

I seriously don't think quality recording are what people are looking for. They are looking for different.

So with that said, perhaps its benifical to not feed into the "instant gradification" of information that people are use to. Music of hundreds of bands at a moments notice might leave a person overwhelmed as to what to buy, and then they end up just trading a bunch of music and not get emotionally attached to a piece of music. Or they wait to get home and add you as a myspace friend if they dug your music, and then they move on to something else, leaving just a myspace comment at some point.

I believe we should get way from cds, and the internet, and start to concentrate on very small markets and exploit them to the point of saturation in the form of things that can't be duplicated easily. Less pressence the better. Embrace the mystery, have as little information about yourself on the web, and let the music be the only thing that is heard. Then those that relate to you music will seek it out and wait for what else you have to say in the form of your second album.

Imagine wanting to tell your friend of a band or artist you saw. But you can't give them any website information for them to check out, so they are forced to see you at a show, or buy one of your recordings because the want to know the mystery.
Old 6th September 2007
  #34
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abell1234's Avatar
 

I would say youre a dreamer
but youre not the only one
Old 6th September 2007
  #35
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellotron View Post
Having grown up with analog reproduction I can say with the most absolute conviction that in no way does an mp3 offer closer to analog sound than an uncompressed digital audio file. To my ear it only imparts artifacts and gives absolutely nothing "back."

Best regards,
Steve Berson
I AGREE THAT IT IS A LOT OF ARTIFACTS

For the record i do not buy CDs as well, if so its a used one for a buck at a jockey lot.
Old 6th September 2007
  #36
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Cellotron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilio View Post
when the peeps around here DO rip(?) from vinyl, what are the parameters,most importantly, which software are you guys using?
Wrong question. Much more important is the hardware reproduction end of it:
turntable
tone arm
head shell
cartridge
stylus
pre-amp
ADC

... all of these have much more impact on the sound than what recording software you use.

My own chain is:
Sansui SR-717 turntable
Shure V15-VMR cartridge
Simaudio Moon LP5.3 balanced phono preamp
Mytek Stereo96 ADC

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 6th September 2007
  #37
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kingofswing's Avatar
What about all the DJ's in this world (not talking about the bedroom ones) - what are they going to use?

All the good clubs around the world have Pioneer CDJ 1000's installed, not to mention how many DJ's own CDJ units or other types of CD decks, etc. Even my brother moved onto CD from Vinyl since '96 and still uses his CDJ and DVJ decks regularly at gigs.

I don't think any top DJ is going to compromise with MP3's - so what do you say? I feel that CD Albums are still needed (no?)
Old 6th September 2007
  #38
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sahiaman View Post

I believe we should get way from cds, and the internet, and start to concentrate on very small markets and exploit them to the point of saturation in the form of things that can't be duplicated easily. Less pressence the better. Embrace the mystery, have as little information about yourself on the web, and let the music be the only thing that is heard. Then those that relate to you music will seek it out and wait for what else you have to say in the form of your second album.

Imagine wanting to tell your friend of a band or artist you saw. But you can't give them any website information for them to check out, so they are forced to see you at a show, or buy one of your recordings because the want to know the mystery.
I remember feeling much more enthusiastic about finding a rare underground record before the internet. The whole thing was just surounded with a mystical aura, that is missing mostly today.

I agree that keeping some things hidden makes it more interesting and that triggers peoples imagination.
Old 6th September 2007
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
What about all the DJ's in this world (not talking about the bedroom ones) - what are they going to use?

All the good clubs around the world have Pioneer CDJ 1000's installed, not to mention how many DJ's own CDJ units or other types of CD decks, etc. Even my brother moved onto CD from Vinyl since '96 and still uses his CDJ and DVJ decks regularly at gigs.

I don't think any top DJ is going to compromise with MP3's - so what do you say? I feel that CD Albums are still needed (no?)
Juno is offering uncompressed wav´s on their site. That could work with final scratch or rane serato IMO, especially for old, rare and deleted records that is reissued. BTW many DJ´s still play vinyl atleast partly.
Old 6th September 2007
  #40
6293
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing View Post
What about all the DJ's in this world (not talking about the bedroom ones) - what are they going to use?

All the good clubs around the world have Pioneer CDJ 1000's installed, not to mention how many DJ's own CDJ units or other types of CD decks, etc. Even my brother moved onto CD from Vinyl since '96 and still uses his CDJ and DVJ decks regularly at gigs.

I don't think any top DJ is going to compromise with MP3's - so what do you say? I feel that CD Albums are still needed (no?)
you notice the drop in high freqs in da club at 105dbA? most djs i set up for have a monitor blaring at their faces that doesnt even have the frequency response to cover 20hz-20khz. i guess those that use phones might, but do you really think they'll care about not having to lug anything to a gig but their laptop, a serato, some cans, dub sack and backwoods?
Old 6th September 2007
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfish View Post
you notice the drop in high freqs in da club at 105dbA? most djs i set up for have a monitor blaring at their faces that doesnt even have the frequency response to cover 20hz-20khz. i guess those that use phones might, but do you really think they'll care about not having to lug anything to a gig but their laptop, a serato, some cans, dub sack and backwoods?
For me the biggest difference in this context is that the higher frequencies sounds so much nastier at high spl´s with bad digital formats. There are good DJ´s and there are bad ones, and that goes beyond the music selection IMO.
Old 6th September 2007
  #42
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drockfresh's Avatar
I think the problem is there is no strong demand from the consumer listening market for higher than MP3 quality. I reached this conclusion from talking with the people directly around me. Even some of my musician friends have said they can't hear the difference between itunes mp3 and cd and don't care. My girlfriend doesn't care about it either. The key is to educate the market. I don't think the demand will be there until recording quality is advertised as 'something better' to listeners.
Old 6th September 2007
  #43
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellotron View Post
Wrong question. Much more important is the hardware reproduction end of it:
turntable
tone arm
head shell
cartridge
stylus
pre-amp
ADC

... all of these have much more impact on the sound than what recording software you use.

My own chain is:
Sansui SR-717 turntable
Shure V15-VMR cartridge
Simaudio Moon LP5.3 balanced phono preamp
Mytek Stereo96 ADC

Best regards,
Steve Berson
no the question was right...all that stuff you mentioned i am capable of choosing for myself....

i should clarify...im not shopping around for software based on SONIC ABILITY, rather ease of use for vinyl transfers.


now...what software are you using?

maybe a masterlink would solve my problem?
Old 6th September 2007
  #44
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abell1234's Avatar
 

I don't think education will change anybody's mind. the fact that I can go to work (i have a job at an office not a studio) and bring my whole music collection with me is what I care about. I used to sit on my sofa and listen to music with or without company. Now I can bring my whole collection anywhere so at any point in time if I want to hear a certain song I can. That is what people care about. People don't rely on their stereos anymore they rely on their computers. I bet there are more kids in America with computers than stereos in their rooms. And as far as DJs needing CDs, youre right CDs will always have a place, its just that DJs will and are burning them instead of buying them. CD as a medium will be around forever, albums being pressed on CD might not. You can buy an album online and burn it on disc.
Old 6th September 2007
  #45
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neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfish View Post
you notice the drop in high freqs in da club at 105dbA? most djs i set up for have a monitor blaring at their faces that doesnt even have the frequency response to cover 20hz-20khz. i guess those that use phones might, but do you really think they'll care about not having to lug anything to a gig but their laptop, a serato, some cans, dub sack and backwoods?
i actually dj'd a friends wedding the other day with my reveal actives, my mixer and two ipods...and every one loved what i did with it...

again in the future if were to do more stuff like that, i would like a manley d.i. or something to give the signal some extra balls....probably; ipod>tube d.i.>mixer>speakers...or something like that.
Old 6th September 2007
  #46
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Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by abell1234 View Post
We decided we would release the next album on usb flash drives
Another GREAT discussion on our future.

Releasing on flashdrives is an interesting concept. I'm just finishing a ten tune project and I was just getting ready to work on the cover stuff.

So....what about the package? I really dig the artwork, liner notes, lyrics, etc.
Now I admit that I'm an old school dude, but I like to look at the pretty pix while I'm groovin' to the tunes.
Old 6th September 2007
  #47
Lives for gear
 

personally, i believe that as internet connections get faster and the storage capabilities of portable media continue to expand, 24-bit audio distribution will become the norm.

i'm sure everyone would love to have all of their favorite music on their ipod as 24-bit .wav file right now...but how much music can you hold? a few hours? give it 3 years, and you'll be able to stick 689248298542 albums on a little stick at 24-bit quality.

in addition, although i do agree that CD is dead, i think that some other physical medium will take its place - a lot of people still go to stores and buy albums, even if it's at wal-mart/target. i think it would be wise for those who set the standards for physical distribution to look into using small, solid-state storage devices to sell media to the masses.

think about it - drop $10 on a little flashdrive-sized card/stick, plug it into your stereo, and it plays 24-bit audio, displays pics/song info - hell, you could throw in some music and "making-of" videos as well, and not have to worry about skipping, or any of the other issues that we face with today's playback technology.

EDIT: LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE ELSE HAD THE FLASHDRIVE IDEA ALSO. LET'S BAND TOGETHER!
Old 6th September 2007
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
So....what about the package? I really dig the artwork, liner notes, lyrics, etc.
Now I admit that I'm an old school dude, but I like to look at the pretty pix while I'm groovin' to the tunes.
you sling the flashdrive in some sort of box, or plastic bubble-packing, with the pics/liners/etc. inserted with the drive
Old 6th September 2007
  #49
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Watersound's Avatar
 

So how do you guys think people will be selling their music merch at live shows in the future? Will they sell download cards or something to that effect? I think they already have something like that out.
Old 7th September 2007
  #50
Gear Maniac
 
NOCCA's Avatar
 

24 bit audio quality become the norm?!

People just don't care!

People would rather fit ten billion MP3s on an ipod than fit 10,000 at 24 bit quality.

It's a quantity vs. quality world and quantity is winning.

Sad but true.
Old 7th September 2007
  #51
Lives for gear
 

i think it'll either be some sort of digital storage device, or maybe an access code/password that allows the customer to go online later and d/l
Old 7th September 2007
  #52
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sahiaman's Avatar
 

The flash drive idea has been comtemplated by many companies, software, vst, sample based vsti's and others.

The only downfall is how much can you charge to make a profit? A 1 GB is about 5 bucks if you buy in bulk, still too much compared to cds or dvds. Factor in the distribution, and cost of sales, then they end up going way past the price of cds.

But cds don't break that easily in transition or by the end user. How many of your iloks have been damaged over the years? What happens if it breaks, does the company have to pay and get you another usb drive? What if its corrupt? Causes a virus? Tech support for dumbasses? Can you see the cost rising? Its not feesable for a company to invest in usb sticks for distribution just yet.
Old 7th September 2007
  #53
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Cellotron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilio View Post
no the question was right...all that stuff you mentioned i am capable of choosing for myself....
So why not choose the software for yourself as well?

Quote:
now...what software are you using?
I personally use SAWStudio, and when needed, click/crackle removing plugins by Sony & Acon Digital.

Quote:
maybe a masterlink would solve my problem?
Masterlinks have a number of downsides to me, including mediocre converters, user interfaces and transports. YMMV - but if you want to go the stand-alone recorder route you might want to investigate other options, such as the Tascam DVRA1000HD.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 7th September 2007
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Cellotron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOCCA View Post
24 bit audio quality become the norm?!

People just don't care!

People would rather fit ten billion MP3s on an ipod than fit 10,000 at 24 bit quality.

It's a quantity vs. quality world and quantity is winning.

Sad but true.
Yup - or else DVD-A would have eventually caught on (if the manufacturers still hadn't shot themselves in the foot with poor marketing).

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 7th September 2007
  #55
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
24 bit audio quality become the norm?!

People just don't care!

People would rather fit ten billion MP3s on an ipod than fit 10,000 at 24 bit quality.

It's a quantity vs. quality world and quantity is winning.

Sad but true.
personally, the way i see things shaking out is like this: itunes and other online music retailers start offering higher-grade downloads as an option. as transfer and storage capacities increase, they'll eventually drop the lowest-quality format(128kb mp3), and go on and on about how they have better-sounding downloads than the other guy. next up will be the 192kb mp3, and so on and so forth.

of course some people could still d/l the higher-quality file, then compress it to ****-quality, most people, in their laziness, will accept the larger and higher quality format. a lot of people probably won't even notice/give a ****.
Old 7th September 2007
  #56
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abell1234's Avatar
 

We were thinking about adding a flash player that was themed by album art (in a sense the album art itself would be the player or some sort of file) And as far as cost and what not, for us we are local and spending money on cds is a waste so flash drives or something else would be welcome if nothing else you can use the flash drive as it was meant to be.
Old 7th September 2007
  #57
Lives for gear
 
neilio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellotron View Post
So why not choose the software for yourself as well?



I personally use SAWStudio, and when needed, click/crackle removing plugins by Sony & Acon Digital.



Masterlinks have a number of downsides to me, including mediocre converters, user interfaces and transports. YMMV - but if you want to go the stand-alone recorder route you might want to investigate other options, such as the Tascam DVRA1000HD.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

you pompous....nice guyheh... iwas asking for suggestions,you git.

if you dont have any, than move on....
Old 7th September 2007
  #58
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
The only downfall is how much can you charge to make a profit? A 1 GB is about 5 bucks if you buy in bulk, still too much compared to cds or dvds. Factor in the distribution, and cost of sales, then they end up going way past the price of cds.

But cds don't break that easily in transition or by the end user. How many of your iloks have been damaged over the years? What happens if it breaks, does the company have to pay and get you another usb drive? What if its corrupt? Causes a virus? Tech support for dumbasses? Can you see the cost rising? Its not feesable for a company to invest in usb sticks for distribution just yet.
i totally agree that this format is still too expensive to be used as a method of media distribution, but what about 3-4 years from now? even if it isn't necessarily in the form of a USB flashdrive, i still believe that small, solid, memory-chip type of storage will trump the disc format that the entertainment industry has been clinging to for so long.

and yea, flashdrives can break, but probably not as easily as cd's scratch! and what do they do now when a CD gets scratched all to ****? you a)buy another one, b)download it, or c)hope you already have it on your ipod
Old 7th September 2007
  #59
Gear Maniac
 

I will be seriously disappointed if physical formats go out the window. I look at my damn computer screen enough all day long, the last thing I need to do is stare a monitor to read into my favorite bands' albums.
Old 7th September 2007
  #60
Lives for gear
 
abell1234's Avatar
 

Nick I hear you, but that is why vinyl can save the physical format. Vinyl for audiophiles and mp3s or whatever for the rest. Its hard to listen to a vinyl or a cd while your skating downtown.
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