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Over produced, well produced, and under produced Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 10th August 2018
  #181
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcecil View Post
I consider SD songs to be over-produced in the context of using studio production techniques as opposed to just recording a great band.
Really? I honestly can't think of a single "studio trick" on anything of theirs.If you don't count doubled lead vocals and WENDEL.
Old 10th August 2018
  #182
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jmcecil's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Really? I honestly can't think of a single "studio trick" on anything of theirs.If you don't count doubled lead vocals and WENDEL.
No, they didn't do "tricks" in that sense. But every recorded track was individually eqed and compressed. At least that's my recollection. And then as the results were refolded into new multis, they were re-eqed as a whole to get that SD sheen & glue. I'm pretty sure they were one of the first real adopters of the track by track approach to recording. Not the earliest or only to do so. But fully embraced as the process. Again, I'm going off of memory here.

NOTE: I am a big SD fan. My opinion that studio technique is an inherent and integral part of their sound is not meant to be taken in a derogatory way.
Old 10th August 2018
  #183
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
You're confusing "hi fi" with the explosion of FM in the late 60's...
I'm ONLY talking about SELLING ALBUMS to a general public which had begun including a much higher percentage of men by the '70s. When people started buying albums, they needed something to play them on which was what brought stereo hi-fi into the mainstream.
Old 10th August 2018
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcecil View Post
No, they didn't do "tricks" in that sense. But every recorded track was individually eqed and compressed.
That makes them different?
Old 10th August 2018
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That makes them different?
for the time yes. They took it to a level that the vast majority of other bands were not. I said earlier that they weren't the only ones starting to really use the studio as part of the pallet. But, they fully embraced it and were very, very, very good at it in a way that others were not. Even before Aja, their albums had an EQ and pan focus that was unusual compared to other albums of the time. The EQ range and pan on everything was almost mathematically correct.
Other albums would do "tricks" with a track or two for effect. SD seemed to to do it to every track all the time as a matter of course. Basically not using it as an effect, but as an extension of the tracking process. That individual tracks were planned. I've seen some of the desk maps and notes from Royal Scam. It's nuts.
Old 10th August 2018
  #186
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Same year as the release of Aja, Rumors was (finally) released, one of the most worked-over/track by track albums of its time.

They could have used a firmer hand from a producer.
Old 11th August 2018
  #187
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well it's all just semantics, but in my definition a record can only be called "over-produced if it actually sounds Overproduced. And conversely if it sounds overproduced it is overproduced no matter how "natural" or "hands off" or laissez-faire the techniques used in the recording process were.

To me well vs over is more about knowing when to stop than it is about how "fancy" you got with your 'techniques'.

Or do people think something can be TOO "just right"?

Steely Dan is famous for their attention to minute detail, nearly OCD. Now if someone thinks they sound that way, OK that's one thing. But what if there were no interviews, no magazine articles, no videos of the sessions? How many people are being influenced by their behind-the-scenes knowledge?? I don't think its fair to count that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcecil
... every recorded track was individually eqed and compressed.
that could be said about nearly every rock/pop record in the last 40 years. They can't all be overproduced just because of that.
Old 11th August 2018
  #188
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Overproduced is a term people use when they don't like something because they think it's too slick or perfect or over orchestrated/arranged or over-effected or too "commercial".

Under produced is a term people use when they don't like something and think it sounds lo-fi/crappy/demoish/unfinished.

Well produced is a term people use when they think something sounds good.
Old 11th August 2018
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post

Or do people think something can be TOO "just right"?
That is quite possible. By the time the late 70's arrived cutting well crafted, well produced records had become commonplace. Everyone from REO Speedwagon to Jefferson Starship to the Doobie Bros were putting out records with precious little, if any, rough edges. Most rock and pop had gotten as glossy as the old lounge act smooth pop artists of old. And it all became a big snooze fest.
Old 11th August 2018
  #190
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Lawson View Post
That is quite possible. By the time the late 70's arrived cutting well crafted, well produced records had become commonplace. Everyone from REO Speedwagon to Jefferson Starship to the Doobie Bros were putting out records with precious little, if any, rough edges. Most rock and pop had gotten as glossy as the old lounge act smooth pop artists of old. And it all became a big snooze fest.
Yacht Rock
Old 11th August 2018
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance Lawson View Post
That is quite possible. By the time the late 70's arrived cutting well crafted, well produced records had become commonplace. Everyone from REO Speedwagon to Jefferson Starship to the Doobie Bros were putting out records with precious little, if any, rough edges. Most rock and pop had gotten as glossy as the old lounge act smooth pop artists of old. And it all became a big snooze fest.
what happens when a producer says it needs more "rough edges", works to put those rough edges back, or not take them away in the first place, and NOW the song is "just right". At least to someone. So NOW is it "too just right" because you know that the rough edges was a conscious decision? What part of our perception of "overproduction" is influenced by our knowledge of the process.

my point it that these artists are all part of celebrity culture and everyone is an 'insider' these days. Everyone knows how the record was made and in fact that is part of the PR. For example, today the PR slant is 'home' recording - to the point where publicists will exaggerate the amount of self-recording that went into a record because that excites a segment of the fan base.

sometimes an actress has to spend 4 hours in hair and makeup to look like she just go back from plowing their fields.

As the saying goes: "the key to great art is authenticity. Once you can fake that, you got it made."
Old 11th August 2018
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
What part of our perception of "overproduction" is influenced by our knowledge of the process.
I think it's just whether one likes it or not regardless of the process. The Sex Pistols were mentioned as raw, but it was very "produced". How it was done barely matters, it's how it comes off to the listener.

I Am The Walrus has a string/horn arrangement and a choir...someone could think it's over produced...someone else could think it's still edgy, someone else could think it's just right, someone else could think it's a lousy recording by today's standards.

Pop music currently has zero "rough edges"...it's all tuned and perfected...whether people think it's over produced/too slick probably has to do with how "edgy" other aspects are...the lyric and attitude, even if that may be contrived.
Old 11th August 2018
  #193
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
As the saying goes: "the key to great art is authenticity. Once you can fake that, you got it made."
In 2018, we don't fake… we emulate.
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