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Over produced, well produced, and under produced Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 4th August 2018
  #121
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

My friendship with Stevie Wonder was sealed when we realized we both listened to the Hossman on WLAC in Nashville. Wolfman Jack lifted most of his routine from WLAC's evening R&B shows including selling baby chicks.
Old 4th August 2018
  #122
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Ricky Nelson in his song "Garden Party" shared with the world the impossibility of wearing a collar of expectation when it no longer fit: "you can't please everyone so you may as well please yourself".
I had my first opportunity to manage a major musical change over for a well established Bluegrass Band in 1974. The band had an established instrumental star performer as leader and several very young extremely talented singer/musicians that were expertly covering first generation Bluegrass performers. The music they bought and listened to was not the Standard fare of Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs and Jimmy Martin but the first generation stuff was what they were performing at gigs all over the country.
My first reorganization mtg. was to ascertain any common preference in particular songs band members held that could be arranged to fit the acoustic Bluegrass format we were in. Once the creative spigot was turned on my job to listen & evaluate the experimental arrangements these talented men were producing was a wonderful creative experience.
The weekly woodshed work took 3 months and when we went into the studio all tracks were finished in two 6 hour sessions. This was the first opportunity J.D. Crowe, Tony Rice, Ricky Skaggs & Jerry Douglas had to find their own collective musical collar.

Rounder 044 "The Old Home Place" was tracked in early Jan. 1975 and Rounder records finally got it released in late August 1975. At that point, after a fabulous, infamous 1975 festival performance season, the band had decided to pursue individual opportunities. The record reviews were mixed at best because the sound was not the expected traditional fare; but radio broadcasters loved it , played it and when JD brought an all new band to the festival scene the following spring The parking lot bands were all playing various cuts from the project.
Ricky Nelson was right: "You may as well please your self"!
Hugh
Nice record! I hadn't heard it in a while so I made sure it's now a part of my subscription library. Listening now.


It was actually a similar style-pivot album that helped get me back into rock in the second half of the 60s. I'd been listening to folk and bluegrass (and jazz and bossa in other moods) while everyone else was focused on the Brit Invasion. But the psychedelic/hippie thing really caught my attention (I was in my mid-teens) and it was old/young pals, the Dillards, and their "Wheatstraw Suite" that finally gave me an entre to that hippie music... it wasn't too long before I was buying the first (eponymous) Grateful Dead album. But... that's another story.

Old 4th August 2018
  #123
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Amish Dance Music.
this was as close as I could find:

Old 4th August 2018
  #124
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=joeq;13454152]this was as close as I could find...

That guy should cover "Shaker Booty."
Old 4th August 2018
  #125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
this was as close as I could find...
That guy should cover "Shaker Booty."
Old 4th August 2018
  #126
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
this was as close as I could find:
There's a farmstand near our place here in Vermont . . . those pious, decent folk grow some pret-ty fine produce.
Old 4th August 2018
  #127
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
this was as close as I could find...
That guy should cover "Shaker Booty."
this was as close as I could find: Sheik Yerbouti
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Over produced, well produced, and under produced-sheiky.jpg  
Old 4th August 2018
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I was really excited by music going into the 1970s, there were a lot of cool ideas still in play, but as the labels became better at predicting hits and creating formulas, I found the bland music they tended to produce quite boring. And I was distressed by what happened to the hippie ethos that guided the late 60s as the mainstream culture absorbed some of the most annoying and superficial trappings of that explosion of creativity and celebration of cultural freedom. Flowered polyester hippie shirts, anyone? Horrible 'designer' bell bottoms? By 1975, I was horrified by what was happening with mainstream rock/pop. The early disco scene was dying out -- but would soon be replaced by the 'K-Martization of disco' as I called it at the time, the substitution of washed out, string-laden, sexless beat 'dance' music for the funk and R&B I'd been dancing to in the early 70s scene. Bu after the mainstreaming of disco in '76 it became so bland, so by the numbers, so uninviting to anyone but someone looking for the cultural equivalent of quaaludes...

I found I had to reach farther and farther from the cultural norm to find interesting music, whereas only a half decade or so before, innovative, creative pop of all sorts was flowering throughout the popular culture. Not all of it was equally brilliant, of course, but there was such variety, a spirit of adventure.

But, of course, it's cyclic. More periods of change and creative growth rolled through, in waves, though none quite as pan-cultural -- or interdisciplinary -- or stylistically recombinant. (I have to say, I've often found it odd how many of my now aged contemporaries have failed to see the parallels to and and echoes of the 1960s as musical upheavals have come and gone. I, myself, haven't always liked them, but at least I recognize the process.)

(And, of course, lots of flowers poked up through the concrete in the 1970s, too. But I look at the Hot Hundreds of those years and I just shake my damn head. I just wasn't a Three Dog Night/Billy Joel/Journey kind of guy. Lots of folks were. God love 'em.)
Disco was definitely a genre where one could say the same as now..."if you want a hit, do it like that"....

but aside from that, there still seemed to be a lot more variety in the 70s of how one could produce a song (or write a song) and still be in the running for a possible hit...even a disco hit.

I looked up 1979, which seems like when music was possibly "all disco", and the number 1 song for the year was My Sharona...
Old 5th August 2018
  #129
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
We were very aware of our sonic shortcomings.
By 1968 Love Child--I simply can't conceive of a better sounding version of that song. The energy level of the song is through the roof before the first word of lyric us delivered and keeps it going the entire song. To my ears, one of the best pop songs ever recorded.

I imagine the equipment was upgraded since the early recordings, 8-9 years earlier.
Old 5th August 2018
  #130
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
We were very aware of our sonic shortcomings.
As were we in the late 90's. But we still made music that got on the radio and in dance clubs anyway, even without a separate person as the "Producer".
Old 5th August 2018
  #131
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
By 1968 Love Child--I simply can't conceive of a better sounding version of that song. The energy level of the song is through the roof before the first word of lyric us delivered and keeps it going the entire song. To my ears, one of the best pop songs ever recorded.

I imagine the equipment was upgraded since the early recordings, 8-9 years earlier.
The single version is brilliant! It's a dynamite song, great arrangement, urgent, seemingly heartfelt performances.

(The EQ balance of the single version I just listened to [from a release called Forever Diana: Musical Memories] seems a bit scooped but at least it's actually mono. The version labeled Single Version Mono that showed up from a fly-by-nite collection called 60's Gold was neither. Why go out of your way to label something as 'mono' if it's clearly stereo? Maybe these rerelease labels don't even know what mono means. I normally will go out of my way to listen to the original label releases if at all possible, but sometimes you have to go to the rerelease collections to get the original mono mixes -- when you even can.)


EDIT: To be fair, right after that I stumbled on a not-mono* version of "Baby Love" labeled as 'mono' on the stream version of the Motown Anthology collection. So, it's not just the tin-eared bottom feeders at the re-release labels...

* Not-mono, but maybe not the standard stereo mix, either, it's sort of a vague stereo cloud in the middle of the stereo field -- but instantly differentiable from the true mono versions out there.

Last edited by theblue1; 5th August 2018 at 03:08 AM..
Old 5th August 2018
  #132
Lives for gear
I'd give up dancing for Kelly McGillis in Witness.
Old 5th August 2018
  #133
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
I'd give up dancing for Kelly McGillis in Witness.
You mean her? She prefers women.
Old 5th August 2018
  #134
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
You mean her? She prefers women.
Uh...no. DAMN! Another fantasy destroyed.
Old 5th August 2018
  #135
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Prior to around 1968 when stores began refusing to stock mono versions, you really want the mono version of practically every pop record. Stereo was treated as an afterthought to please the suits exactly as surround is today. Virtually all of the production decisions were made in mono prior to the '70s.
Old 5th August 2018
  #136
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Virtually all of the production decisions were made in mono prior to the '70s.
Had to sound killer coming out of a 3" transistor radio speaker.
Old 5th August 2018
  #137
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Had to sound killer coming out of a 3" transistor radio speaker.
The guys in Muscle Shoals used to run a mix out to a Chevy in the parking lot - at least they say that's what they did, who really knows?
Old 5th August 2018
  #138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
The guys in Muscle Shoals used to run a mix out to a Chevy in the parking lot - at least they say that's what they did, who really knows?
I absolutely had clients run a prelim mix out to their car in the parking lot. In the later decades of the last century, I heard many folks say that the 'best' sound they had available was from their car stereo. Of course, that's really saying more about the miserable availability of quality sound to consumers than anything else, at least in some ways. Some things don't change, though for many folks, today, the 'best' may now be earbuds -- often over sound-degrading Bluetooth. =(
Old 5th August 2018
  #139
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Had to sound killer coming out of a 3" transistor radio speaker.
"Love Child" sounded really pretty good over the 3" x 5" dashboard speaker attached to my first car's AM radio. And not much did.
Old 5th August 2018
  #140
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
"Love Child" sounded really pretty good over the 3" x 5" dashboard speaker attached to my first car's AM radio. And not much did.
. . . going 60mph with the "wind wings" open, radio cranked fully clockwise, and it still sounded killer!
Old 5th August 2018
  #141
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
We were very aware of our sonic shortcomings.
Not too many of those. The bottom on some of the 45 rpm singles sounded splatty on a hi-fi system, but amazing on a jukebox. Levi Stubbs got a little toasty sometimes. Never a lack of tambourine.

But man, what an arrranging education to just sit in front of some those records and see how you can mash together an "orchestra" out of three DI guitars and some mallets and a piano. It'd be easy to see how greater recording clarity might've hurt as much as it helped.
Old 5th August 2018
  #142
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toledo3's Avatar
 

Now, it’s not necessarily my favorite music, but if you want to hear an older record that sounds absolutely amazing for the year it was done, on small speaker or hi fi, put on Soul Bossa Nova, Quincy Jones. Listen to some album tracks, not just the title track. Then put on just about any other record from that year.

It’s pretty interesting to compare various artists year for year, as far as pure recording / mix outcome goes.

Thinking broadly...Roy Orbison comes to mind as someone who was just kicking ass with his recordings, as far as pure fidelity and the fullness of the outcome. You put on Running Scared from 61, and then some other hits from that year, and he (and his producer/engineer/studio) was just way ahead...
Old 5th August 2018
  #143
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
. . . going 60mph with the "wind wings" open, radio cranked fully clockwise, and it still sounded killer!
Dither, baby, dither!
Old 5th August 2018
  #144
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
In the later decades of the last century, I heard many folks say that the 'best' sound they had available was from their car stereo.
That would be me. Quite an investment but with the introduction of the CD there was finally a portable format that made it worth it.
Old 5th August 2018
  #145
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Lance Lawson's Avatar
 

There is no clearly defined role for producer. We have producer, arranger, director all of whom should be doing different things. So the person who decided to put horns in the beginning of Can't Always Get What You Want is what? IMO that person was the arranger not the producer. The producer might have decided how the horns would be mixed into the song. The age of the producer began in the early 70's when recording techniques had allowed for a lot more gloss and layering. In the 60's we'd say wow great record or great song. In the 70's you heard "oh that's a great production." Gee maybe everybody had become a producer by then. Come to think of it the guy that rang up my groceries yesterday said he had a session to producer after work. I think producer and I think Phil Specter and I think of how he was a fruitcake just waiting to happen. And happen he did....................
Old 5th August 2018
  #146
Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
That would be me. Quite an investment but with the introduction of the CD there was finally a portable format that made it worth it.
If I spent as much time in a car as I did in my young adult years, I probably wouldn't have been content sticking with my early Android phone 'plugged' via (cassette-form) magnetic transducer into the factory cassette player in my 24 year old Corolla (bought new!)... especially since there's always been something wrong in the wiring of the back speakers. But I've been putting on about 2800 miles a year on average (whereas the first couple of years I put on an average of 40K miles a year... gas was 15-18 cents a gallon then). But I really don't like contributing to the dragging down of the planet. Of course, 24 years ago, things looked a LOT more hopeful. Hell, three years ago... =/
Old 9th August 2018
  #147
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
The guys in Muscle Shoals used to run a mix out to a Chevy in the parking lot - at least they say that's what they did, who really knows?
That's a dang lie! It was a Ford! (I grew up with kids who had a non-stop ford/chevy rivalry)

As a teenager in the late 70s, our cars were our only personal and private space--our castle and mighty steed rolled into one--the centerplace of courtship--the ticket of admission to social groups--our freedom.

So, what was on the radio was a big part of the whole scene. We also had a local AM station which took and played phone in song requests and give the name of the requestor. For my own taste, the music itself was going downhill in a big hurry, but that's another story (long way downhill from Whole Lotta Love to 'Magnet and steel')

So, car listening was a big driver of vinyl sales.

Don't know culturally how it is nowadays.
Old 9th August 2018
  #148
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post

Don't know culturally how it is nowadays.
Well, I can tell you, medically, since the introduction of car subwoofers, otolaryngologists are getting richer.
Old 9th August 2018
  #149
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

We had a 6x9 speaker on the console and a little radio transmitter that could barely reach a car parked in the driveway of one studio. That said, it's important to understand that most records were sold to women prior to the '70s albums.
Old 9th August 2018
  #150
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
We had a 6x9 speaker on the console and a little radio transmitter that could barely reach a car parked in the driveway of one studio. That said, it's important to understand that most records were sold to women prior to the '70s albums.
That's a fascinating stat! What were women listening on? I'm thinking the little 45 rpm players.
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