The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Bob Clearmountain talks about the Pod! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 12th September 2007
  #211
Harmless Wacko
 

In the fabric of my experience.... Pod's are dreadful in mix for distorted guitar sounds.

Dreadful.

Tiny. Silly. 2-D. Lousy to Eq. Totally compressed sounding.

Basically. ALL WRONG.

Dreadful.

Did I mention dreadful?

Because I wanted to say dreadful.

The clean stuff can be usable. Not stellar. But workable, especially in a dense mix.

SM.
Old 12th September 2007
  #212
Gear Addict
 
InstituteOfNoise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SK1 View Post
Oh ****..... Andy Z is on gearslutz.

This is a prime example of what I've been saying about using the pod through an amp. It also helps that Andy's wooping some ass on the tracks. I've gotten similar tones putting the pod through the effects return of a carvin all tube mts 3200.

Great job dude.

Welcome to gearslutz Andy !

HAHAHA SK! Nice welcome! heh Hey your out in the valley, right? Have we ever actually met in person?

I figured after I split with my partner at our place in NoHo last year, I needed to really get a handle and learn something, anything really useful about engineering, now that I'm starting to get setup again solo. This place has really helped me get up to speed. Hopefully I can contribute more than just POD related stuff in the near future.

That said, I have a bunch of new tracks for my new band Chime, all layered with real amps, Atomic/PODxt and Toneport/Gearbox stuff. I just am not ready to post it, but I'm pretty happy with a good 95% of the guitar stuff so far. The temp bass tracks are Toneport, but I'd really like to get a happening DI/pre for the final tracks. I'd love to get some opnions on how the PODs sound mixed in here.

I agree here also the new Toneport Gearbox plugin does sound even better. I have some new hope for the new POD X3.
Old 12th September 2007
  #213
SK1
Lives for gear
 
SK1's Avatar
 

Andy Z .... pm me bro .... no we've not met in person yet, but I've seen you on myspace.

You can come over to my place and check out some cool direct bass in Northridge.

I'm a real bass whoore.

reddi/neve 1272 or api 312 / api 550b // 1176, dbx160vu or api 525

eden/ re20, akg 112, or 421

jazz bass and modulus 5 string

it works.

Old 12th September 2007
  #214
SK1
Lives for gear
 
SK1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
In the fabric of my experience.... Pod's are dreadful in mix for distorted guitar sounds.

Dreadful.

Tiny. Silly. 2-D. Lousy to Eq. Totally compressed sounding.

Basically. ALL WRONG.

Dreadful.

Did I mention dreadful?

Because I wanted to say dreadful.

The clean stuff can be usable. Not stellar. But workable, especially in a dense mix.

SM.
This from a real heavy distorted guitar sounds junkie.

Old 12th September 2007
  #215
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixShmix View Post
You are correct, sir. I also feel that abomination sounds like crap, and am totally embarrased about it. I really sucked back then, didn't I? What's worse than the 'verb is the outrageous use of drum samples! This is not a valid excuse, but at the time I was doing what I thought the record company wanted (they liked it) and sampling was a new, fun thing. I was hired to make it sound somehow different, and that's what I came up with. Being a Free fan myself (believe it or not) I would have done anything just to get my hands on those tapes and hear how they were recorded—to be able to solo each individual track—wouldn't you? That was really fun! Sorry it had such **** results.

I can't listen to it now. I would advise others not to as well. The original mixes are perfect!

And how would you know what I do or don't understand?
Wow, that's huge - nice apology. The master is more humble than the servant. If even BC can suck once in a while, it makes me feel like the world is still spinning on it's axis. If only the rest of us could be great as many times as he's sucked...
Old 12th September 2007
  #216
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by js1 View Post
I can think of a number of possible reasons that the Pod doesn't sound like Amp Farm - bit depth of the processing, sample rate, bandwidth limiting filters used, etc. For me, the Pod reminds me of one of those optical illusions that, once you can see it, you always see it (but not in a good way). Once you pick up on the artifacts, you can never ignore them. And in my case, they drive me nuts.

But what's interesting is that they now have the Gearbox VST plug in, so you can hear the models outside the Pod. They sound better.

And, more interesting is that you can run them at 88.2 or 96K. I only did a quick test at 88.2 the other night when I should have known better and headed to bed (kind of like now), so it would be premature of me to make bold statements. But I forgot about the modeling and simply enjoyed playing guitar.

js
Isthat you Satch?
Old 12th September 2007
  #217
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
In the fabric of my experience.... Pod's are dreadful in mix for distorted guitar sounds.

Dreadful.

Tiny. Silly. 2-D. Lousy to Eq. Totally compressed sounding.

Basically. ALL WRONG.

Dreadful.

Did I mention dreadful?

Because I wanted to say dreadful.


SM.
thanks for the chuckle. well put. who needs ambiguity anyway??heh
Old 12th September 2007
  #218
Gear Addict
 
InstituteOfNoise's Avatar
 

SK, pm'd ya. Might be able to play you some new bonus stuff... heh
Old 14th September 2007
  #219
To me, the problem with the Line 6 POD XT (not talking about the old PODs, those didn't sound good) is the user...
I hate when people I respect loose my credibility...
Old 14th September 2007
  #220
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
To me, the problem with the Line 6 POD XT (not talking about the old PODs, those didn't sound good) is the user...
I hate when people I respect loose my credibility...
ok so if you're such a good user... please point us to some examples of distorted guitar sounds that use only a pod, and are in the context of a rock song with full band and vocals... where the mix sounds great..... i mean really great - world class.

heh
Old 14th September 2007
  #221
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
To me, the problem with the Line 6 POD XT (not talking about the old PODs, those didn't sound good) is the user...
Cool. Could you please post, or direct me to some samples. Thanks.
Old 14th September 2007
  #222
Quote:
Originally Posted by InstituteOfNoise View Post
RCM, I guess I don't have anything online at the moment that has vocals in band setting where a POD is layered in. I'm surprised I dont, but I'll dig something up...

Until I can find something I can upload (which I do), I do have a couple of little clips of some Toneport/POD stuff I just did. This is some quick and dirty short temp cues I did for a film my buddy was editing. He wanted some bluesy greasy but still sorta modern sounding. For really quick stuff it worked well. All were done using smaller/older amp models which many folks steer away from for some reason, like the Gretsch/Supro, Tweed Champ/Deluxe, maybe a JTM45 model...
:: Andy Z's Home of the L.A. Line 6 Users Group - TonePort DI Demos ::
Hey Andy, In terms of guitars sounds you go for, how would you rate these sound clips on a scale of 1 to 10. 1 being unusable and 10 being tracks that you absolutely love with out reservations or qualifiers and you think would work fantastic in a mix?
Old 14th September 2007
  #223
Lives for gear
 

^^

ick. pure pod cheese.

i am sure there are better pod guitar sounds out there....c'mon podders....post some sounds.
Old 14th September 2007
  #224
Gear Maniac
 
dbluefield's Avatar
 

Nobody's mentioned the Pete Anderson interview from Tape Op yet?

(he basically says he's getting his sounds from the Line 6 - he's on their website too).
Old 15th September 2007
  #225
SK1
Lives for gear
 
SK1's Avatar
 

Hey RCM !!

You started this thread, so I think it's only fair that you post some examples of your stuff that you consider to be great guitar sounds. That way, we can see where your coming from.

Word.


I'm sure they will be nice ....
Old 15th September 2007
  #226
Lives for gear
 
Gary Ladd's Avatar
There are ways to make a Pod feel & sound more like a real amp, but personally I only use it as a secondary layering tool.

Other than that it's just a nice way to fiddle around without disturbing the neighbors.

It will be at least another decade before modelers as good as a finely tuned tube amp, there's just too many variables in the mix and some of them can't be solved without millions of hours of research in da R&D dept. for Line6 et al.


In the meantime, they've gotta make money to keep the wheelies spinning...

Old 15th September 2007
  #227
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slipperman View Post
In the fabric of my experience.... Pod's are dreadful in mix for distorted guitar sounds.

Dreadful.

Tiny. Silly. 2-D. Lousy to Eq. Totally compressed sounding.

Basically. ALL WRONG.

Dreadful.

Did I mention dreadful?

Because I wanted to say dreadful.

The clean stuff can be usable. Not stellar. But workable, especially in a dense mix.

SM.
Slippy, So you're still finding a better tone through the amp simulator in your Roland VS1680?

Each to his own. You're still the better 'chess' player.
Old 15th September 2007
  #228
Lives for gear
 
Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

I can out-weblink you any day of the week!

Some related thoughts:

1. Andy Partridge, songwriting and guitar genius of XTC, loves the pod and uses it extensively on the last XTC disc.

2. Amp simulators of all stripes "thread in" nicely with real tube amps recorded conventionally. The combination of the real and the virtual can give you tones and dimensionality to play with. Relax and stop hating this technology. It's all in application and context. Try double-tracking a part with a real amp and an amp simulator set to mimic the same tone. Pan them apart from each other in the mix. Fun times. Again, relax.

3. I am no guitar snob. I use three guitars that suit my aesthetic and playing style: a blonde '52 American Telecasterish thing w/ Joe Barden pickups (badass bite and clarity), a Jerry Jones guitar (warm, round, funky, terrific, authoritative take on classic Silvertone/Danelectro tonality), and a borrowed Gibson SG with a bigsby. I own only one amp, which is a thing of wonder. I have a couple of modified pedals. I have access to all kinds of great microphones, including one of the best put-it-16-inches-away-and-aim-it-at-the-cone microphones ever made.

All that being said, one of the coolest sounds on my band's next record was achieved with this embarrassingly cheesy tool. When people hear it, they ask "Wow, how did you get that sound?"

After telling the truth once or twice, I learned that the truth is unromantic and not very rock'n'roll. Nobody wants to know that the guitar sound they love comes from software. Everybody has a Pete Townshend/Jimmy Page/[insert your favorite guitar hero here] fantasy.

So I have learned to lie and say "We just cranked up the amp and went for it, man."


- c
Old 15th September 2007
  #229
Lives for gear
 
paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
To me, the problem with the Line 6 POD XT (not talking about the old PODs, those didn't sound good) is the user...
I hate when people I respect loose my credibility...
who exactly lost your credibility?
Old 15th September 2007
  #230
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
ok so if you're such a good user... please point us to some examples of distorted guitar sounds that use only a pod, and are in the context of a rock song with full band and vocals... where the mix sounds great..... i mean really great - world class.

heh
I think fellow gearslut Indie told me he used a pod on the Wilshire album. He said having TLA mix it was helpful as well. It sounds nice to me.
Old 15th September 2007
  #231
Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno View Post
who exactly lost your credibility?
Bob Clearmountain...


Mixerguy and RCM: I think it's hard for me to post samples of "world class" guitar tone recorded with a POD, since to me, I never got "world class" tones, even using Soldanos, Rectos, JCM 800, etc, etc, etc...
But I'll try to find a mp3 with a POD XT on guitar and bass that had a good sound (for Metal stuff).
And as soon as I get my POD back I'll ask a friend to come by and record some samples for you all.
I'm not saying the POD will substitute the real stuff (that's why I have 3 or 4 different amps in my studio), but I'm saying that you can get good tones from the XT, specially if you're going to blend it with real amps.

What makes me sad is the fact that people just kills a piece of gear, a tool, just because they didn't "like" it.

A loooong time ago I tracked a demo for a band where we used only a POD XT for guitars. A few months later, they signed with a small label and went to a "big" studio to do their album. They used a JCM 800 for distorted guitars and a Jazz Chorus for cleans.
When I heard the results, the distorted guitars from the POD sounded better than the real recorded amps...

So in the end, my point is, 90% of the time, the problem is not the tool, it's the user.
Old 15th September 2007
  #232
Lives for gear
 
Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
my point is, 90% of the time, the problem is not the tool, it's the user.
I agree to a certain extent, but as a mix engineer I have also felt the frustration of receiving source material that sounds (for lack of better words) "extremely fake". Mixing shouldn't be this laborious task in which you completely abandon the original sounds in an effort to create tones that are workable and can coexist. Tracking is when a record is made. That is the time to get it right. That is the time to get the sounds you want! The mixer should be able to focus on balance and creativity rather than trying to turn crud into gold. IMHO there are huge misconceptions and false expectations placed upon the mix engineers today. It seems as though artists are placing more focus upon the mixing of a record than upon the recording of it, which of course is a huge mistake.
Old 15th September 2007
  #233
Lives for gear
 
gainreduction's Avatar
 

Bob Clearmountain,

Very off topic, but since you're here....

Are you familiar with the special guest moderator forums (read: superstar engineer Q & A) that have taken place on gearslutz from time to time ?

I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum who would love to have you featured aswell.

Kindest regards, Marcus.
Old 15th September 2007
  #234
Lives for gear
 
paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
Bob Clearmountain...


Mixerguy and RCM: I think it's hard for me to post samples of "world class" guitar tone recorded with a POD, since to me, I never got "world class" tones, even using Soldanos, Rectos, JCM 800, etc, etc, etc...
But I'll try to find a mp3 with a POD XT on guitar and bass that had a good sound (for Metal stuff).
And as soon as I get my POD back I'll ask a friend to come by and record some samples for you all.
I'm not saying the POD will substitute the real stuff (that's why I have 3 or 4 different amps in my studio), but I'm saying that you can get good tones from the XT, specially if you're going to blend it with real amps.

What makes me sad is the fact that people just kills a piece of gear, a tool, just because they didn't "like" it.

A loooong time ago I tracked a demo for a band where we used only a POD XT for guitars. A few months later, they signed with a small label and went to a "big" studio to do their album. They used a JCM 800 for distorted guitars and a Jazz Chorus for cleans.
When I heard the results, the distorted guitars from the POD sounded better than the real recorded amps...

So in the end, my point is, 90% of the time, the problem is not the tool, it's the user.
Well ...

A) I don't think Bob is going to lose any sleep over it
B) It's his opinion, and he's entitled to his and you are to yours.
C) In my experience, I've found that it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to get Pod distorted guitar sounds to work in a satisifying way [to my standards] in a track -- no matter what I try to do to get them to work. They sound like pants most of the time. This is my experience. And it seems that Bob, Slippy, Ronan and a few others here have had the same troubles.

The notion of posting samples is weak because with mixing everything is so context related. In a way, Bob's quote should be read in the context it was written for this very reason. And a notion of what is 'world class' is so subjective that it is not even worth arguing about. File that along with the word 'warm' under nonsense phrases in audio...

I agree, that 90% of the time, it is not the arrow, it's the Indian. But is seems like for a few of us, the Pod falls into the 10% side of the equation...

Cheers,
John
Old 15th September 2007
  #235
Lives for gear
 
colinmiller's Avatar
 

I'm sure Bob will try to work harder to win back Jer's credibility. And with enough hard work, Bob someday will make it to the big time and start mastering the craft. I am also sure that eventually with enough time, Bob will learn not to take mild comments on a web page to be held as written in stone and to be taken to the utmost extreme of seriousness.

Once he gets enough experience working with guitar sounds, that Bob there is gonna go places. Before long he could end up mixing the Rolling Stones movie.
Old 15th September 2007
  #236
Lives for gear
 
travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
I hate when people I respect loose my credibility...
Damn, I hope you find your credibility again. Where do you think it went?

When I lose something, I'll sometimes go to the local pawn shops and thrift stores to see if it turns up.
Old 15th September 2007
  #237
SK1
Lives for gear
 
SK1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno View Post
...........
The notion of posting samples is weak because with mixing everything is so context related. ................
Really ???

It's got to be better than just blah, blah, blahing about it.

I'd rather hear the samples, then decide for myself.

Old 15th September 2007
  #238
Lives for gear
 

online samples DO have their place.....and i would like to hear BOTH solo guitar with pod OR pod guitars as the PRIMARY guitars in a mix. people have talked about pods not cutting it in a mix....personally i dislike them when it is just me and the pod in a room.

functional is one thing.....kick ass is something else.

the other thing that has not been mentioned much in this thread is the issue of dynamics with the pod....

ok, so in a mix you can maybe mix in some pod layers to get something that more or less works....but when i try to get into a piece of guitar gear i do stuff like try all the pick up settings...turn the guitar volume way down, play light, play hard....all this kind of thing....and the pod ALWAYS feels bad when i do this....it does not respond in that nice organic way i like at all....

ok, enough.
Old 15th September 2007
  #239
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
I'm so happy this thread is back, with a vengeance!

who cares about Logic 8 anyway!?



Old 15th September 2007
  #240
colinmiller and paterno: You know, it's kinda funny that you guys (and many others) have missinterpreted what I said. The thing is, I allways respected Bob as an engineer, as most of you do, and this time I didn't like the way he put his opinion. I think it was too ofensive, and most people will just think (because Bob said) the tool is a piece of ****. I think every tool has it's place, maybe not in my room, but someone, somewhere will do something sound amazing with it.

That's the whole thing. But if you think you're so smart to loose your time writing useless stuff over the internet... think again.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Jules / Podcasts and Interviews
24
Silver Sonya / So much gear, so little time
0
JFK Chopper / So much gear, so little time
4
Alexi / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1
sofa / So much gear, so little time
24

Forum Jump
Forum Jump