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Bob Clearmountain talks about the Pod! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 8th September 2007
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK1 View Post
What about a pod through a power amp into a cab and mic ?

It certainly sounds different from the pod direct sound.

heh
there is a company called "atomic amps" that does exactly this. it is a tube power section plus speaker enclosure that has a little "nest" to put the pod ontop:

http://www.stevesmusiccenter.com/Ato...ctor112Big.jpg

ick.

i love the disney world analogy. hilarious.
Old 8th September 2007
  #152
mwd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I still do not get where people find this thread to be about blaming the tools.
Post#1

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I have always said that I think the Line 6 Pod is the single biggest set back in recording quality in my life time...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
...trying to overcome how bad the Pod had screwed up the record.
Old 8th September 2007
  #153
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I've been thinking about getting the iPod myself.
Old 8th September 2007
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller View Post
I've been thinking about getting the iPod myself.
64kbps mp3s sound way better through a nice vintage amp and a 57.
Old 8th September 2007
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit View Post
i thought that MAYBE the feedback could have been from using a pod WITH an amp....or tracking in the control room with the monitors cranked.

either way....i was a bit confused because the guitars sounded good....and was impressed if that HAD been a pod.
I'm not a big fan of the Pod , or most amp sims even though i own a Vox Tonelab which i don't mind , still nothing like mic'ing an amp ! I also own Amplitube 2, and once again it's decent but you realize soon as you mic a couple of boxes that it just aint cutting the mustered IMHO ...

The feedback you get through an amp sim is not a resonant tone but more a sqeal that is unnerving ...

BTW thanks for the compliment thumbsup
Old 8th September 2007
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8tron View Post
he had it right the first time, there are no rules in recording.

We don't sit at our speakers thinking, "does bob clearmountain like the way this sounds" do we?
No, what we really should be saying is 'Do I really like the way this sounds, i mean really like the way this sounds ' heh
Old 8th September 2007
  #157
Deleted 86c3d96
Guest
A composer's viewpoint

I write music, and I got tired of dealing with guitar players. Surprisingly, i have become a nearly competent guitarist. I have been using the POD xt for a couple of years based on the recommendation of "everybody," I always thought it was me not being able to get the Pod Guitar processed parts to sit well in my mixes. I love some of the sounds that come out of the Pod, it is kind of like aural heroin, but it just doesn't sit right. I recently switched to recording from a 15 watt Roland with a stomp box, and it just works better for me. BTW, any recommndation on a small recording amp?

However, I still like playing with the POD. They just sound neat when what you want to hear is the guitar dominate uber alles.

I feel just a little bit less stupid today, thanks!
Old 8th September 2007
  #158
SK1
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OK, so who has run a pod through the fx return of a tube amp and micd it ?

Any thoughts on this ?

Old 8th September 2007
  #159
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy-taxi View Post
Porcupine Tree uses the pod on virtually every album they release and I think they are one of the few bands with a real sound which sounds absolute very good. Their mixes just kick @ss.
Really, nothing wrong with the pod. I think its more their ability to mix

In current issue of EQ: Wilson mentions that he uses a pod for all his demos and that he actually likes the pod sounds, but......

"Although Wilson tends to include many of the guitar tones from the demo stage on the albums final mixes, he also mics actual amps while doing overdubs to create punch, clarity and sonic diversity. "

When you listen to the record you can hear there's an incredible range of different textures - particularly from the guitars" he says. "A lot of the more heavily overdriven riffs are all done through real amps"
EQ Magazine September 2007

Perhaps Steve Wilson was not a good enough guitarist or producer to do the whole record with the pod?????
Old 8th September 2007
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_seldon View Post
BTW, any recommndation on a small recording amp?
Here's what I use:

Gibson GA5 Les Paul Junior amp

Little. Light. Toneful. One knob. And loud, if I want it to be.
Old 8th September 2007
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_seldon View Post
BTW, any recommndation on a small recording amp?
Tiny Terror
Old 8th September 2007
  #162
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rockrev's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Perhaps Steve Wilson was not a good enough guitarist or producer to do the whole record with the pod?????
I don't think that's the point. If we go back to BC's original quote, it's suggesting we NOT use the POD for guitars AT ALL. Steven Wilson has proved they work just fine in a GREAT mix. It may be a blend, but the POD is there. There is footage on You Tube of SW actually tracking with it - beautiful tones coming from the POD and it ends up on the final product.

Your point about a whole album is moot. Of course, a whole album of POD would probably sound like sh!t - but that's not the point. The point is . . . banning the POD altogether is f'n ridiculous.

dj
Old 8th September 2007
  #163
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Sid Viscous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SK1 View Post
OK, so who has run a pod through the fx return of a tube amp and micd it ?

Any thoughts on this ?

I do a lot of tracking with my XTLive stage rig miced like I would any other guitar amp. It sounds good an works great in mixes. The thing it is missing from direct is the mic and cab emulations. That may be the difference.
Old 8th September 2007
  #164
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santibanks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockrev View Post
I don't think that's the point. If we go back to BC's original quote, it's suggesting we NOT use the POD for guitars AT ALL. Steven Wilson has proved they work just fine in a GREAT mix. It may be a blend, but the POD is there. There is footage on You Tube of SW actually tracking with it - beautiful tones coming from the POD and it ends up on the final product.

Your point about a whole album is moot. Of course, a whole album of POD would probably sound like sh!t - but that's not the point. The point is . . . banning the POD altogether is f'n ridiculous.

dj
Indeed, that said, back in the more early days (with chris maitland as their drummer), they didn't had that much money and most stuff was done at steves own bedroom type studio so much more pod on those.
I know, In Absentia was done at one of the best places in NYC and everything sounds perfect on that one, but especially the older albums have a lot of POD sounds.

I think the stuff you are referring to btw are the songs Mellotron Scratch (also running trough a real leslie) and Shallow (the heavy part where Gavin suggested some heavy industrial drums). Its on the Deadwing DVD-A and I think also on the Arriving Somewhere stuff.

Line 6

Take a look at that list, and only talking about pod users, these really stand out for me:
Lenny Kravitz, Keane, John Wesley, The Edge, Jamiroquai, Green Day, Steve Wilson, Greg Lake, Radiohead, Matt Belamy (Muse), that guy from Slipknot, Kaiser Chiefs.
And these guys are just guys I know or sound familiar to me, there are plenty of other users in the list that use the Pod. I think its odd and harsh to say they should be banned and are difficult to mix.
The above users all have in comon that they use the pod during writing/tracking and that they are really used in mixes.
Im not a guitarist and never will be one and I dont own any so I really have no clue about its abilities, maybe it is easy to get something bad sounding out of it, but IMHO any piece of gear is capable of that... From expensive Fairlight;s, Synclaviers, Minimoogs to samples, drummachines, outboard stuff etc. Its how you use the tool...
Old 8th September 2007
  #165
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Sid Viscous's Avatar
 

Speaking of Steve, I wonder if he would do a couple of weeks as a guest here?
Old 8th September 2007
  #166
Gear Maniac
Most of the issues I've found with mixing my Pod stuff is that I have to shut off most of the fx's. Being that I'm a song-writing and I write on guitar, during the song-writing stage I'm not thinking of mixing. I like the wet sound getting the idea down.
But I always end up replaying the guitar tracks with just the amp model and cab, dry everything else is off. The problem I find with the Pod mainly is it's so time consuming. Fiddle fiddle all day long. But who am I, just a nobody writing some tunes.
There's no wrong way.
That's my starting point, I like the results, though I do use the output from my Traynor K4 keyboard amp with the tubes on full.
Whatever, I'd like to have 3 or 4 amps and cabs to choose from. I don't so this is my only choice so far.
Later
Brian
Old 9th September 2007
  #167
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK1 View Post
What about a pod through a power amp into a cab and mic ?

It certainly sounds different from the pod direct sound.

heh
Sounds like crap through a guitar amp. Wasn't ever made to do that.

However, I used to play my Line6 XT Live through an original SWR California Blonde acoustic amp, which is basically a PA in a box with a 12" and a tweeter, and it sounded great for live. Seems they sound better through full range systems than amps. I like Pods for live playing, for the convenience, cost, weight, and as I mentioned, one can get a good tone if you work hard at it.

I sold the Cali Blonde for some reason and have regretted it ever since. Not just because it made the POD sound better

One thing no one seems to have mentioned is reamping with the POD. Clearmountain and others say they like AmpFarm so could they disparage me for this? I reamp using my XT Live and the USB connection. It's one pretty cool hardware dongle.
Old 9th September 2007
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Clean pod sounds do not f++k up all other instruments on the record in the same way that a distorted pod sound does (and by distorted I mean bluesy gain or the amount of gain you might find on an old REM record on upwards).

I am rarely a fan of clean Pod sounds, I have never heard one that I would find on par with a SM57 stuck in front of a Fender Twin or Roland JC120, but they do not really screw up records that much.
I agree with this - it is much more difficult to get a good distortion sound out of a POD than a clean sound. But I think distortion lends itself to trouble anyways. Less distortion to tape sounds better in a mix than live in any case, with any amp. I treat distortion like bass - I get it to where i like it, then back it off a bit.

I'll get a sound I like out of the amp or through a box when the guitar channel is solo'd and find that I wish I'd backed it off a bit when it comes to mix.

I think this is what Bob C. is complaining about - he gets sucky tracks to mix with. It's just easier to f*ck it up with a POD 'cause it's harder to get the right sound, especially if you don't have a mix in mind, and there's less recourse.

Betcha Bob could get a good sound out of a POD during tracking if he had to.
Old 9th September 2007
  #169
500 series nutjob
 
pan60's Avatar
 

not to derail this thread, so i just started one i hope will enable the discussion of the pod ( or other digital processors ) verse a amp, as opposed to mixing with the pod.


pod or other / amp


heh
Old 10th September 2007
  #170
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eligit View Post
hold on....isn't the entire point of this website to discuss the merits of how various pieces of gear sound? many think pods, for all their convenience, sound......how do i put this....bad.

so how is this not a valid discussion?

Point taken.

My problem with this sort of thread is that someone says

"(so-and-so) can't get a good sound with a (such-and-such)"

and the thread immediately becomes a gang of other so-and-so's either agreeing that they too can't get a good sound out of a such-and-such, or else disagreeing that the OP is wrong and that you *can* get a good sound out of a such-and-such.

Personally, I think these sort of threads say more about the so-and-so than they do about the such-and-such. Even if the so-and-so is Bob Clearmountain.

I think they'd be a more valuable addition to GearSlutz if, instead of turning into a litany of "me neither" posts, they were framed as an admission of success not-yet-achieved; a plea: "How can I get a good sound with a (such-and-such)?"

I realize that's essentially an admission of weakness, something folks are rarely willing to do in public, but I think that would at least steer the thread content in a more useful direction...which, as you suggest, is what the point of this website ought to be.

(BTW, anyone who's done a search on POD use @ GS has probably come across my suggestion for how to make one sound better, but I'll summarize again here:

Turn It Up.

Have the guitarist monitor that sucker at the same volume as the guitar amp you're attempting to emulate. Eg, if you're trying to get the sound of a dimed Marshall 1959, turn up the control room monitors (or studio speakers) to >100dB SPL so that the guitar physically interacts with it's own sound the way it would if you were standing 3 feet away from a real Marshall stack. It makes a huge difference in terms of pulling off the illusion of a real amp.)
Old 10th September 2007
  #171
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I still do not get where people find this thread to be a about blaming the tools. If anything its just the opposite. All us anti-pod people are saying that we do not know how to make records with distorted pod guitar sound great. This seems a lot more about admitting our own weakness.

Okay, I stand corrected.

And I salute you, Chris, for bravely clarifying your position.
Old 10th September 2007
  #172
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^^
i see what you mean...and i agree...but only to an extent.

first....that's probably not the best thing for your monitors (depending on how much spl they can comfortably handle). if i turned up my bm6s to be as loud as a marshall 50 or 100watter into a 4X12....they would be destroyed in a matter of minutes (or less). some have mains that are more substantial....but many do not, especially in all the smaller studios that are owned by many or even most of the posters here.

second...i thought the whole idea with gear is to have a good sound in mind and THEN get the gear....not buy a piece of gear just for the heck of it FIRST...and then go on the internet to beg for answers as to how to make it not sound bad because it is intrinsically not that amazing of a tool.

HOWEVER if you HAVE to record guitar direct (always a compromise IMHO) and amps are simply NOT an option (for any number of reasons)...well then the whole discussion of how to improve POD performance is TOTALLY valid.

but to discuss the pod as being equal or superior to an amp when you have the option of both...seems a little unlikely.

personally i even prefer listening to (and playing) a somewhat flawed amp/mic situation to a pristine but annoying pod sound. it just feels more like playing the guitar and what it lacks in slickness and control it gains in personality and texture.
Old 10th September 2007
  #173
Gear Maniac
 

Hey guys, here is a clip I made with a POD PRO XT. The clip is the slow part of Master of Puppets right after the second verse and chorus. The playing is mediocre, but the sounds sound decent to me.

P.S. Go easy on me I'm new here!


Its the mustard of puppies 2 clip...
SoundClick MP3: Frostfield - Band page with free MP3 music downloads on SoundClick
Also the merciful fate medley was the XT as well. I like the tone I got there..
Old 10th September 2007
  #174
SK1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Sounds like crap through a guitar amp. Wasn't ever made to do that.

However, I used to play my Line6 XT Live through an original SWR California Blonde acoustic amp, which is basically a PA in a box with a 12" and a tweeter, and it sounded great for live. Seems they sound better through full range systems than amps. I like Pods for live playing, for the convenience, cost, weight, and as I mentioned, one can get a good tone if you work hard at it.

I sold the Cali Blonde for some reason and have regretted it ever since. Not just because it made the POD sound better

.................
I disagree. I've got a few pod lovers coming through the studio, and I've had good luck plugging the pod through the effect return on an amp, this bypasses the pre of the amp so your only using the power section of the guitar/bass/or keyboard amp. It works better for me than listening to the pod direct. I've also heard people do this live and audience members were commenting that they liked the guitar sound .... even some killer engineers with credits. To be fair, it was a very good player though.

Whatever works.

Sounds good, is good.
Old 10th September 2007
  #175
SK1
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This thread basically reaffirms what I've been feeling and hearing for a while. That the pod has usable clean sounds but pales when comparing the distorted sounds to an amp with a 57 in front of it.

Are there any GREAT alternatives for getting distorted guitar direct ???

Didn't boogie have some sort of direct solution ??

What's the highest end unit out there ??
Old 10th September 2007
  #176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK1 View Post
Didn't boogie have some sort of direct solution ??

What's the highest end unit out there ??
Boogie made the studio pre amp back in the 80s (and has a newer version) The 80s one goes for about 300 bucks on ebay. Its not as great as a good miced amp, but it works in mixes soooooo much better than a digital emulator like the pod.
Old 10th September 2007
  #177
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My hat goes off to all of you who can take a guitar track that sounds like Pod and make it work in a mix!

Since I do much more mixing than tracking, the Pod and other amp sims have caused me a lot of headaches.
Old 10th September 2007
  #178
SK1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Boogie made the studio pre amp back in the 80s (and has a newer version) The 80s one goes for about 300 bucks on ebay. Its not as great as a good miced amp, but it works in mixes soooooo much better than a digital emulator like the pod.
Cool. Any others come to mind ?

I say a great distorted direct sound would be incredibly useful in the studio. I'm getting some GREAT bass sounds direct. If only it was so easy to a great direct distorted guitar sound.

Not that I don't love micing amps.
Old 10th September 2007
  #179
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK1 View Post
I say a great distorted direct sound would be incredibly useful in the studio. I'm getting some GREAT bass sounds direct. If only it was so easy to a great direct distorted guitar sound.
The mythical great direct guitar sound may exist somewhere in the world, but I have never heard it.

I have gotten amazing bass sounds direct. I am not smart enough to know why bass can work so well, but guitars do not.
Old 11th September 2007
  #180
SK1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
The mythical great direct guitar sound may exist somewhere in the world, but I have never heard it.

I have gotten amazing bass sounds direct. I am not smart enough to know why bass can work so well, but guitars do not.
HA !!

So is the boogie the "studio preamp" ????

Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp - (eBay item 110160530214 end time Sep-15-07 15:38:23 PDT)
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