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Bob Clearmountain talks about the Pod! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 6th September 2007
  #91
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
so you're telling me that a good chef can take awful tasting, lousy quality chocolate that is bitter and chalky and waxy and really, really bad.....and make a world class chocolate mousse out of it?

No, you have it backwards. If a chef turns out a world class chocolate mousse, then it doesn't really matter if he made it out of bitter, chalky, waxy chocolate or the finest Belgian chocolate. He knew what he could do with the ingredients he had, and either used them, or tossed them and got better ingredients.

A poor workman blames his tools. (i.e. he uses the tools - good or not - and then blames them for the result) However, a good workman won't even bother with tools he feels are unsuitable. (i.e. he knows what he can get out of his tools and proceeds accordingly) Part of being good is to know what tools work for you. If the result is good, then the tools didn't really matter, right?
Old 6th September 2007
  #92
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Sure. That would be mine. And to recap I'll summarize in the following manner:

1.) If you're good it doesn't matter what you use
2.) If you're not good it also doesn't matter what you use - but for a different reason than if you were good.
3.) Some people who are very good have really strong opinions about how to do things, which sometimes differ from what other very good people think
3a.) It's sometimes useful to listen to people who are good and picky
3b.) Part of being good is to know when to listen to people, and when to disregard them
4.) Some people who are not good also have strong opinions about how to do things. However, their opinion is irrelevant, no matter how loudly they try to voice it.
5.) Bob Clearmountain makes a lot more money than I do.
Ha! Great post!!

I think this pretty much sums up gearslutz !! Jules, time to start a new forum...
Old 6th September 2007
  #93
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
so you're telling me that a good chef can take awful tasting, lousy quality chocolate that is bitter and chalky and waxy and really, really bad.....and make a world class chocolate mousse out of it?

I think you need to re-read Kafka's post -- especially number 4...
Old 6th September 2007
  #94
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
No, you have it backwards. If a chef turns out a world class chocolate mousse, then it doesn't really matter if he made it out of bitter, chalky, waxy chocolate or the finest Belgian chocolate. He knew what he could do with the ingredients he had, and either used them, or tossed them and got better ingredients.

A poor workman blames his tools. (i.e. he uses the tools - good or not - and then blames them for the result) However, a good workman won't even bother with tools he feels are unsuitable. (i.e. he knows what he can get out of his tools and proceeds accordingly) Part of being good is to know what tools work for you. If the result is good, then the tools didn't really matter, right?
I'd make a guess that you've never been to France, and don't know much about world class chocolate mousse.



heh

oh yeah - P.S.......

- i'm talking about INGREDIENTS, not TOOLS.

or did you not READ my post and understand my ANALOGY



Last edited by mixerguy; 6th September 2007 at 07:30 AM.. Reason: added the P.S.
Old 6th September 2007
  #95
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno View Post
I think you need to re-read Kafka's post -- especially number 4...
fuuck
Old 6th September 2007
  #96
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
fuuck
I'll take the 3b approach on this one.

JP
Old 6th September 2007
  #97
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno View Post
I'll take the 3b approach on this one.

JP
fair enough

Old 6th September 2007
  #98
Deleted 86c3d96
Guest
Scared

You people scare me more than George Bush and Al Qaeda, but not as much as Dick Cheney.

I am going to go play with my PodXt, and have some hot cocoa.
Old 6th September 2007
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_seldon View Post
You people scare me more than George Bush and Al Qaeda, but not as much as Dick Cheney.

I am going to go play with my PodXt, and have some hot cocoa.
Old 6th September 2007
  #100
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
I'd make a guess that you've never been to France, and don't know much about world class chocolate mousse.



heh

oh yeah - P.S.......

- i'm talking about INGREDIENTS, not TOOLS.

or did you not READ my post and understand my ANALOGY


You're speaking impirically about "taste". One man's "bitter" is another man's "yum". Plus, (to continue the analogy) many of the world's most prized foods were once throwaway scraps. I live in France - there's just as much **** chocolate in the grocery store here as anywhere else. And, I've heard some great records made with a POD. I've seen amp farm on some album's tracks that would probably surprise the guitar world (but I'll never tell...).
Old 6th September 2007
  #101
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Amp sim or mic'ed up guitar ?

Here is something i produced a while back , sorry for not being able to post more of the track ....... but for the purpose of guitar tones i think it's enough ....

The mp3 is a decent resolution as well ....

So is it a Pod (Amp Sim) or mic'ed up guitar ?

I'm counting on Mixerguy to pick it heh
Attached Files

Guitars.mp3 (403.2 KB, 270 views)

Old 6th September 2007
  #102
Lives for gear
 
superburtm's Avatar
 

all pods should be thrown into the trash. THey are useless crap in my mind. Not even good for a practice amp. heh
Old 6th September 2007
  #103
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True North's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Sure. That would be mine. And to recap I'll summarize in the following manner:

1.) If you're good it doesn't matter what you use
2.) If you're not good it also doesn't matter what you use - but for a different reason than if you were good.
3.) Some people who are very good have really strong opinions about how to do things, which sometimes differ from what other very good people think
3a.) It's sometimes useful to listen to people who are good and picky
3b.) Part of being good is to know when to listen to people, and when to disregard them
4.) Some people who are not good also have strong opinions about how to do things. However, their opinion is irrelevant, no matter how loudly they try to voice it.
5.) Bob Clearmountain makes a lot more money than I do.
I was fine until #5 at which point you almost made my mornng coffee come out of my nose heh - thanks heh
Old 6th September 2007
  #104
Gear Guru
 
Sid Viscous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blast9 View Post
LOL Ty Tabor went through a Pod Pro for a few albums --- horrible, and so unlike Ty Tabor's beloved tone
I thought the guitar sounds were fine, but the mixes seemed small and weird compared to KX standards.
Old 6th September 2007
  #105
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Here is something i produced a while back , sorry for not being able to post more of the track ....... but for the purpose of guitar tones i think it's enough ....

The mp3 is a decent resolution as well ....

So is it a Pod (Amp Sim) or mic'ed up guitar ?

I'm counting on Mixerguy to pick it heh
sounds very nice!!

it has this "trebly thing" and this lack of a certain nice "crud" going on that i associate with sims....but still....good work either way.

the other factor for me as a player is just the visceral fun that i have with a real amp that does not occur with any sim or pod or whatever.

once you take a digital recording and then turn it into an mp3....i'm sure you can get by with some pod tracks without it being terrible....but that does not make it as good as the real deal.

again....nice work on tracking the guitars no matter what your method.
Old 6th September 2007
  #106
Gear Nut
 

This thread is funny. I think Bob Clearmountain is fantastic. However, pods have their purpose. They are tools. I received one for Christmas and have been using it for production music ever since . . . the thing has made me a lot of money. I think it's a convenient little box that is a perfect fit for people recording in their bedrooms or any other locale where micing an amp just isn't practical.

Whether or not some engineer somewhere might listen to tracks I have done using a pod and be disgusted is completely irrelevant. Clients were pleased, checks were written (and subsequently cashed), and a living was made, all without the overhead of a studio and all the other technological wonders that go into getting a workable tone from an amp. Thank you line 6.

All that being said . . . I doubt there were any pods on the Shawn Colvin album Bob Clearmountain mixed (A Few Small Repairs) . . . and that may be one of the best sounding records ever.

Justin
Old 6th September 2007
  #107
Lives for gear
 

My opinion of pods is very similar to solid state amps. While they aren't totally unuseable there are usually much better alternatives. I do think there is a distinct sonic difference between a quality tube amp and just about anything else. In fact I once had a younger band come in and demanded using their Spider 2. I tweaked it as good as I could, really really tried making it sound like a tube amp and even adjusted my techniques to make it sound more genuine to me. An assistant of mine came in the next day and hit play on the song and within 3 seconds looked at me with an awful face and asked, "is that solid state?". Later I had the band retrack using the xtc module on the Randall and guess which one they ended up choosing for the final mix. I will say though that I'm somewhat impressed with the clean tones on most of the higher end modelers, software included. I do prefer genuine Fender clean but I actually prefer the POD's clean over just about anything Marshall I've recorded.
Old 6th September 2007
  #108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Viscous View Post
I thought the guitar sounds were fine, but the mixes seemed small and weird compared to KX standards.
This is the magic of the Pod. To get the guitar to sound half decent, everything else on the record will sound worse.
Old 6th September 2007
  #109
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
BTW the quote you referenced in your post was from Bob Clearmountain, and not me. I do not use Amp Farm, and when i need to crunch up a non guitar part I prefer to use a sansamp.
I too prefer the Sansamp, whether real or plugin.

I've recorded world class guitar players who insist on using pods for convenience sake, and it always ends up sounding like a ship in a bottle.

-R
Old 6th September 2007
  #110
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RKrizman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Here is something i produced a while back , sorry for not being able to post more of the track ....... but for the purpose of guitar tones i think it's enough ....

The mp3 is a decent resolution as well ....

So is it a Pod (Amp Sim) or mic'ed up guitar ?

I'm counting on Mixerguy to pick it heh
Pod.

-R
Old 7th September 2007
  #111
Lives for gear
 
malaclypse's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faderjockey View Post
But with all that said..If people treated the POD for what it is it would be different..

Like use a POD when you want that POD sound.. Like using a electronic kit to sound like a Electronic kit... If you try and do real drum tones it doesn't work..

So if guys would look at the POD as it's own sound..Like a Wurli then maybe it could have a place... But trying to use it as true amp sound it ain't gonna cut it in my book..
word up! use it for the sound it has, not to replace the real thing. i really like my Pod XT to practice with. it's like fun caricatures of all these amps.
but when it comes time to record, i mic out my Soldano!
Old 7th September 2007
  #112
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Pod.

-R
No, three mic's, two cabs , one for each cab and a room mic just in case it gives the sound something special ......

I thought the intro feedback would've given it away if the tone didn't .... i find trying to get that type of interaction between guitar and amp virtually impossible with an amp sim ..

I find amp sims a nessesary evil when writing , or even passable if you do not stack it to much for a song that needs a guitar sound in it without being the focus , but would always mic an amp given the opportunity , both for the sound which for me is much better than any amp sim and purely for the performance and how an amp reacts when you play through it , my take is if you don't have to settle for something that will do, don't .
Old 7th September 2007
  #113
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PMoshay's Avatar
 

posting an opinion on the internet is the equivilent to standing on an ant hill covered in honey..............

I like Mutt Langes approach....... never say anything.........Just do your thing and never explain yourself.

But Bob is badass....... my ears will feast on whatever he is serving!
Old 7th September 2007
  #114
Gear Maniac
 
Master Tang's Avatar
 

Just a few lines under BC's Pod rant is a list of five things to abide by.

This is number 5, by BC himself.




"5. Don't do anything I say because I'm generally full of crap."








Old 7th September 2007
  #115
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chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Tang View Post
5. Don't do anything I say because I'm generally full of crap."
And by that token I'll not abide by his rule no. 5.

Wait a minute...





My brain hurt.






Ow.
Old 7th September 2007
  #116
Lives for gear
 

Sold all my amps and pedals. Got tired of maintaning tube circuits
and dealing with inconsistancy.

The Pod works just fine for me. I use a Pod v2, and a Sansamp Tri AC
modeler, for any and all guitars.
I dont work on national releases. I do mostly independant film stuff,
and alot of work with some major TV networks like Fox and ESPN2.
I also work with local singer/songwriters in my area.
For the level i work on, the Pod does the job. My clients are all
very happy.

Generally, its a matter of understanding it, and knowing how
to get what you want from it. If you can not get what you want from
it, then sell it. Its that easy.

There are at least 500 items in a studio, wich one person will say
"That unit sucks, to which the other person answers, "really? i love it"

Who really cares? It doesnt really matter at the end of the day,
as long as your mix sounds like you want it to.
Oh, and yeah, Bob's great and all, whoopee..

T
Old 7th September 2007
  #117
Lives for gear
 
santibanks's Avatar
Porcupine Tree uses the pod on virtually every album they release and I think they are one of the few bands with a real sound which sounds absolute very good. Their mixes just kick @ss.
Really, nothing wrong with the pod. I think its more their ability to mix
Old 7th September 2007
  #118
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy-taxi View Post
Really, nothing wrong with the pod. I think its more their ability to mix
Uh, pardon me while I take cover...
Old 7th September 2007
  #119
Moderator
 
Blast9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy-taxi View Post
Porcupine Tree uses the pod on virtually every album they release and I think they are one of the few bands with a real sound which sounds absolute very good. Their mixes just kick @ss.
Really, nothing wrong with the pod. I think its more their ability to mix
Aee you positive about this? I thought Steve used Bad Cats on this album, and Mesas before at least for the main guitar tones

[EDIT -- I stand corrected :-)] Roland U.S. - Insider

Also from FAQ section of their forum: Porcupine Tree - Community

Quote:
What equipment does Steven use?

RECORDING STUDIO:

Apple G4 running Logic 6.4 Digidesign Mix TDM system EXS24 virtual sampler Apogee Trak2 Mic Pre Amp / A-D convertor Neumann U87 microphone Mackie 32-8-2 mixing desk

ON STAGE:

Paul Reed Smith Custom 22 guitars, Gibson Les Paul, wah-wah pedal, volume pedal, Plosive Electronics May Treble Booster Pedal, Bad Cat Two Tone Distortion, Boss distortion, Karl Martin compressor, TC G Major effects processor, Line 6 Echo Pro. All run from a Custom Audio Electronics switching system. Amplifier : BAD CAT Hot Cat combo.
Old 7th September 2007
  #120
Gear Addict
 
rockrev's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy-taxi View Post
Porcupine Tree uses the pod on virtually every album they release and I think they are one of the few bands with a real sound which sounds absolute very good. Their mixes just kick @ss.
Really, nothing wrong with the pod. I think its more their ability to mix
Exactly. I've even posted footage of Steven Wilson recording Deadwing with a PODxt (table version) - just do a thread search for it.

Here's the thing. The POD (and other modelers) have their place. I've heard sh!t through them, but I've heard some nice tones as well. The key is blending and using other units to shape the sound. It also depends on the song itself, the other production elements, the player, etc. So many variables. But to rule them out completely - or ban them - is really quite silly. Plenty of people wanted to ban synths in the 80's. Look at how much those jokers will cost you now. Want a real Prophet? Wait those suck, right?

dj
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