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Bob Clearmountain talks about the Pod! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 5th September 2007
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amost View Post
Okay, I shouldn't but WTF I'll play along....I'm not comparing my mixes to BC obviously & this is just 2 tracks but I actually do not hate the lead tone on this & if I didn't say it was a POD I'm thinkin' you wouldn't know although you might say you do.
asbestos undies on.
Sounds fokin gre..... errr.... ahem.... I mean (puts Gearhead hat on)

Clearly that is a POD I can hear it plain as day,you can hear the lack of tone , depth (insert descriptive adjective here). It's awful terrible, unusable and embarassing.......


ANYONE else care to comment on how clearly terrible that sounded.















psssst............hey you... amost... over here. I think it sounds great, the player sounds reeeeallly sweet (is that you?). You could probably plug that guy into a tin can and he would sound awesome.

I don't know about anyone else but that guitar sound, regardless of whether it was recorded on a POD or not, sounds great IMO.

Than again YMMV, cheers and thanks to Amost for having the balls to post
Old 5th September 2007
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Remember in the Bruce Swedien interview/thread where he categorically stated that compressors suck and no one should ever use them?

Y'know, unless you are working with a vocalist with poor control and doesn't know how to work the mic, or drummer who is a little soft in the foot, or bass player who is a bit uneven. He's working with musicians who need little or no compression to control their performance and he's a master engineer, so he can get away with less compression - but it's a pretty good thing for the rest of us. I figure a lot of the time using no compression is like painting without the masking tape - takes a steady hand....

But it was a stupid categorical statement without context. Clearmountain's comment is bordering on the same. I bet if he was honest, he'd actually admit, "well, it's *possible* to get a decent sound out of a POD, but..."

If I were Clearmountain, there's lots of stuff I wouldn't put up with either, so if he doesn't want to work with modeled amp sounds, fair enough.

I didn't take Bruce's comments that way. I took it like this, Bruce automates better then we ever will. He learns the song and then rides that **** on the faders..that is why he does not like compression, he never needed it because he controls the sound a different way.
Old 5th September 2007
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by amost View Post
Okay, I shouldn't but WTF I'll play along....I'm not comparing my mixes to BC obviously & this is just 2 tracks but I actually do not hate the lead tone on this & if I didn't say it was a POD I'm thinkin' you wouldn't know although you might say you do.
asbestos undies on.
1. Nice playing
2. Getting things to where I "do not hate" them is rarely the end goal.
3. It sounds like a Pod
4. Pods are not as damaging on single note stuff. Single note stuff does not screw up all the other tracks the same way chords with a pod will.
Old 5th September 2007
  #64
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Yes, it takes a lot of work to get a good tone out of a PODXT. It can be done and it can be a versatile machine. It's easy to get lacklustre sound out of it. I hear lots of lacklustre sound come out of real amps and it's hard to save them sometimes.
Then why is it that even when one of the digital modeler companies put out a promo DVD to showcase the product, that the guitars sound really bad on the promo material?

I am not a technophobe. Every time there is a new generation of this stuff I check it out with open ears. I have just never heard one that I though achieve the level of "good" not to mention "great".

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
So I am confused here, it is Ronan m ainly against the POD or against all digital guitar amp modelers..including Software/?

Is also againt guitar line recording?
I have a strong personal preference for the sound of acoustic and electric guitars captured by microphones, but I am only "against" digital modelers because they screw up the sound of everything else on the record. If I was working with a guitarist who felt his "sound" was his guitar straight into a DI, it my not be my favorite, but I could make it work in a mix with out much fuss. Same would be true if he used a sansamp or even an old rockman. Its the digital modeling part that start to fight all the other elements in the mix. (This is really only true with any amount of gain. Clean tones do not really create these problems.)
Old 5th September 2007
  #65
We just use pods or vamps when tracking drums so we don't have to have cranked amps bleeding in the room. Once we finish the drums we use our real amps. Night and day
Old 5th September 2007
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
I didn't take Bruce's comments that way. I took it like this, Bruce automates better then we ever will. He learns the song and then rides that **** on the faders..that is why he does not like compression, he never needed it because he controls the sound a different way.
Yeah, I remember that - which is why I noted his engineering mastery, coupled with good performers. But I got the sense that Bruce derided compressors - a tool of the weak. There is a difference between not needing something and not liking it.

Sometimes you just need a compressor - it's faster, more convenient, and picks up slack on the performance and engineering end. I try and use compression as little as possible, especially on voices, unless I'm making a sonic choice for compressed sound. Sometimes there is neither the time nor budget (nor skill) to manually repair or compensate for every bad hit.

Anyways, this was about Pod Clearmountain. Didn't meant to divert the discussion.
Old 5th September 2007
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by tclash View Post
Yeah, but sad to say that a real amp would work a lot better even for that purpose.
I dont know, I think the only one that might would be the pod amp
Old 5th September 2007
  #68
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When the Pod first came out I asked a session guitarist who was using one what he thought of it. He replied "I feel like I'm playing a part that someone already recorded. I feel disconnected from the guitar by one generation."

I gotta say Pods are good for demos and other quick fixes but they will never replace my Blackface Princeton Reverb.
Old 5th September 2007
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True North View Post
It's awful terrible, unusable and embarassing.......
hah...thanks. glad ya liked it.
Old 5th September 2007
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
1. Nice playing
2. Getting things to where I "do not hate" them is rarely the end goal.
3. It sounds like a Pod
4. Pods are not as damaging on single note stuff. Single note stuff does not screw up all the other tracks the same way chords with a pod will.
1.thanks.
2.I did lie a little. I actually like the sound and have been asked more than once what amp is that....not that that means ****.
3. I figured most everybody would say yeah I knew it's a POD. I could also say it's not a POD & most people would say yeah I knew it's not a POD.
4. I'm an original POD hater but I think it can be used in a track here & there. A Tele playing chords with what they call an AC15 has worked decent at times but yeah PODs in general suck but I think they can work in spots.
Old 5th September 2007
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Its the digital modeling part that start to fight all the other elements in the mix. (This is really only true with any amount of gain. Clean tones do not really create these problems.)
Spot on.
Pod tones always need to be filtered.
They often sound fine by themselves but eat up too much bandwidth.
Old 5th September 2007
  #72
mwd
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POD creates a total environment. POD WORLD. It has it's own ambiance and stereo spectrum. So when it's by itself it can sound decent. But throw it into a busy mix and it's a crap shoot.

Try tweaking it after it has been recorded and it can collapse on you.

I easily see how the OP and Mr. Clearmountain feel the way they do but put the blame where it should be. It's not the POD ...it's the improper use of it.

But make no mistake to imply that "unless it's a tube amp it ain't real" ... is just dumber than dirt.
Old 6th September 2007
  #73
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I really really hate PODs... But I also build gtr gear... And play gtr..

But with all that said..If people treated the POD for what it is it would be different..

Like use a POD when you want that POD sound.. Like using a electronic kit to sound like a Electronic kit... If you try and do real drum tones it doesn't work..

So if guys would look at the POD as it's own sound..Like a Wurli then maybe it could have a place... But trying to use it as true amp sound it ain't gonna cut it in my book..
Old 6th September 2007
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amost View Post
3. I figured most everybody would say yeah I knew it's a POD. I could also say it's not a POD & most people would say yeah I knew it's not a POD.
Agreed 100% - it's a bit of a no win situation really. But hey if nothing else I enjoyed listening to that peice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amost View Post
4. I'm an original POD hater but I think it can be used in a track here & there. A Tele playing chords with what they call an AC15 has worked decent at times but yeah PODs in general suck but I think they can work in spots.
Given the right player, I absolutely beleive that they can be sucessfully used. Most of the bad POD sounds I have some across were usually the result of the user being a poor player or not using the tool properly or a combination of both. I will say that there is a very small percentage of players who know how to get proper sounds out of a POD.

By the same token I have heard many players with redicoulously expensive 'real' rigs that sound like complete a$$. Hasn't anyone ever experienced that ?

In my opinion much of a guitar players TONE is generated by the player himself. If you do not start with this essential ingredient it's pretty much downhill from there.
Old 6th September 2007
  #75
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I have worked with people who insisted on using Pods, and I own a Boss GT6.

I could never get a satisfactory tone out of the Pod, but the Boss unit actually is really natural sounding IMO

Modeling has come a long way, and it has some evolving to do, but the premise of this thread is a small quote, possibly taken a little out of context. I know what to listen for when trying to determine if a recording is through a Pod or and amp, which means that there is a "sound" to it, which is not good (regardless of what many say, the Pod should not have a "sound"; it is an emulator, so if it has a "sound" it is a complete failure), but in the right hands it does not matter.

In response to the quote taken out of context, I say "grow up"; take the track you are given (and the check that comes with it) and do your job. Given the benefit of the double that Mr. Clearmountain knows what he is doing and what he is talking about, I agree: learn to use it right, or ditch it and focus on the real world, not useless emulations. If a Bob Clearmountain customer can afford to pay to have Bob Clearmountain mix his track, he should be pro enough to be able to tell a good tone from a bad one, Pod or not. He is probably just sick of hacks wasting his time, as most of us probably are.
Old 6th September 2007
  #76
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Can someone please save me the trouble of reading every post and just tell me who's opinion is the right one?
Old 6th September 2007
  #77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisc_o View Post
In response to the quote taken out of context, I say "grow up"; take the track you are given (and the check that comes with it) and do your job.
Perhaps you missed this part of the original postt:

"Quote from Bob Clearmountain's web site <http://www.mixthis.com/bobframeset.html>"
Old 6th September 2007
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Perhaps you missed this part of the original postt:
I didn't miss it, but I may not get the format of his page. Is his comment a response to the three questions quoted before the statement? Looks like it to me, and I interpret it as a guide to beginners.

Regardless, enough people think differently, and this is not a contest, so there is no right answer. Can good sounds be had with ****e gear, and can ****e sounds be tracked using the best gear? We all know the answer.

All I can say is that there is a serious lack of physical evidence for three pages of posting! Where's the beef?
Old 6th September 2007
  #79
Gear Nut
It's all in your head...literally

I agree that the Pod is difficult.

I've only heard one person ever who made it sound good - Adam J Fox - largely IMO because he's a professional luthier and all of his guitars sound insanely good to begin with. His guitars would sound good through anything. He also programs all his own sounds from scratch.

There's some nice stuff under his "indie" category, 3 or 4 tunes down. It is all Pod.

ajfox music
Old 6th September 2007
  #80
JES
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That Adam J Fox stuff sounds great. If we were serious, we'd be doing some A/B tests and or at least throwing up tracks and asking people on the thread if they liked the sounds BEFORE revealing whether or not it's a Pod.

I actually think a lot of the objections from guitarists have to do with the feel of playing through the thing, and it's something I notice as well. There's something different about an amp moving sound in the room in terms of the experience of playing.

And I still stand behind the XTC and Jesu records as having good guitar tone for their respective genres desite the use of Pod.

Best,
--JES
Old 6th September 2007
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark714 View Post
I've owned quite a bit of Line 6 gear over the years. Amps, POD's, pedals, etc... most of it collects dust but it all has its place. I will never use the Line 6 amp models live because they can't touch a decent tube amp for any kind of dynamic playing. It feels absent under my fingers in a way that I can't describe, and I'm sure most of you already understand.

That said, I demo a lot of tracks in my studio. Sometimes I use PODS and pump them through Neves and a HEDD. There are times where I am quite happy with the result, and there are other times and other tracks that call for a different (purist) approach.

In the hands of a capable player and on the right material the PODs can deliver. If U2 sends you a mix and The Edge happens to use a POD or his rackmount Line 6 amp modeler he had custom made for him you're going to turn the job down?

I mean no disrespect to the original poster or the many talented folks on this forum, but it seems pretty hypocritical for any pro's here that bitch about POD's and turn around to use any DAW. Isn't there a sonic trade-off between the traditional discrete analog console and tape? Where then is your integrity about your sound if you use a DAW instead of a purely analog signal path? What level of compromise is acceptable to you? Do you think you can get similar results in less time with more reliability using the digital world? News flash.... there are guitarists all over the world that can do the same thing with their modeling based rigs. Get over it. You're probably just angry that the music that comes into your studio is underperformed or just plain bad. A legitimate gripe for sure, but not the fault of Line 6.

I think it would be much more productive to request capable playing from all of the ****ty guitarists in the world rather than criticizing their gear selection. Better yet, be realistic. Since this is part of your workflow, just get the HEDD to wake up some ****ty tracks and make the best of it.

There are lots of really bad songsters and musicians in the world. A lot of them are on pop radio. All of them want to record. On some level, be happy they thought enough of you to ask you to help them bring their dreams to life... no matter how terrible they are.

I apologize for the sour mood, this just hit a nerve.

Sorry to anyone this might piss off but a serious +1 here. Lots of legit artists, producers and engineers have used PODs and produced good sounding tracks on them. And lots of sh*t artists, producers and engineers have produced sh*t tracks on real live amps and guitars...

Come on people, it's another tool, and like most of our tools, if it's used properly, it works, if not, it sucks.

I abso-f**king-lutely hate people who imply or say outright that someone must be a crappy engineer if they use X piece of equipment... In a WHOLLY creative and subjective insudtry like ours that's the most ignorant statement anyone can make. Seriously, it's like NOTHING can be good or valid unless it meets some kind of snob criteria...

I'd put a round of drinks on my belief that in the mix, no one here could tell the difference between a well played POD track and an equally well played AMP track better then half the time.

(I might be taking this thread straight to the moan zone...)
Old 6th September 2007
  #82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity View Post
I abso-f**king-lutely hate people who imply or say outright that someone must be a crappy engineer if they use X piece of equipment... In a WHOLLY creative and subjective insudtry like ours that's the most ignorant statement anyone can make.
What does that have to do with this discussion?

I think guys/gals that can make crunchy guitar driven records with Pods recorded direct, that sound great have to be amazing engineers. I would love to know their tricks.
Old 6th September 2007
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity View Post
I abso-f**king-lutely hate people who imply or say outright that someone must be a crappy engineer if they use X piece of equipment...
i do not recall being a part of that topic?
i happen to be very picky about projects i choose to take on, i can do that.
and to be fair, i guess, their happens to be more then a few things other then the pod that i just will not do.
to many pod players getting offended and i just do not see that as the intent of this topic.


heh
Old 6th September 2007
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan60 View Post
i do not recall being a part of that topic?
i happen to be very picky about projects i choose to take on, i can do that.
and to be fair, i guess, their happens to be more then a few things other then the pod that i just will not do.
to many pod players getting offended and i just do not see that as the intent of this topic.


heh
Ok, so I'll admit I was reaching into my bitter stage for that comment, since I've seen topics on this board with that sentiment, and seeing comments like "PODs are disgusting" sort of implies by proxy that if you think so little of the POD you can't think much of the people who use it.

That being said, I use a POD, and I own (and have owned) some great amps, both vintage and modern. Each of them has found a place in my recordings at some point in time. I think it's the broad generalizations that bug the hell out of me.

Old 6th September 2007
  #85
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fizzy fizzy fizzz
Old 6th September 2007
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I think guys/gals that can make crunchy guitar driven records with Pods recorded direct, that sound great have to be amazing engineers. I would love to know their tricks.
RCM,

Not sure if this is good enough but I thought I'd do a bit of an experiment today.
Take a listen to the following:

http://www.jamesrichmond.com/ifobinaryargument_mix.mp3

I mocked it up pretty quickly- it isn't mixed or edited and some of the samples were a bit high in the mix and clipped.
But... all the guitars are POD Pro Xt via AES/EBU into Protools.

The drum loop is one of the John Bonham mp3's chopped to bits.

All the rhythm guitars are the Pod's Powerball model.
Guitars at the end are Mesa model with Metal Zone pedal and Muff and Matchless DC30 model for the solo (at the end).

Again, this was done quickly as an experiment to see if I could do a while track with the POD.
Old 6th September 2007
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
RCM,

Not sure if this is good enough but I thought I'd do a bit of an experiment today.
Take a listen to the following:

http://www.jamesrichmond.com/ifobinaryargument_mix.mp3

I mocked it up pretty quickly- it isn't mixed or edited and some of the samples were a bit high in the mix and clipped.
But... all the guitars are POD Pro Xt via AES/EBU into Protools.

The drum loop is one of the John Bonham mp3's chopped to bits.

All the rhythm guitars are the Pod's Powerball model.
Guitars at the end are Mesa model with Metal Zone pedal and Muff and Matchless DC30 model for the solo (at the end).

Again, this was done quickly as an experiment to see if I could do a while track with the POD.
well...... to me it sounds like a Pod. If I didnt know it was a Pod, i'd say it was really, really terribly recorded amps ... or perhaps some sort of terrible digital modeller used....

honestly - this does NOT sound pro, good, or real to me.

I'm sorry - many people may disagree, but to me it sounds like a really bad demo.

Old 6th September 2007
  #88
Here for the gear
 

So Mr. Clearmountain has changed his mind, Huh?
When the Pod first came out I saw him at a seminar for Apogee (at a Cleveland GC-his wife is from the area) where he briefly descibed how a Pod had saved a mix he was doing.
As he said, at the last moment he decided to go to a music store and purchase the Pod. He then had the artist track a second guitar part through it thus saving the mix.
Old 6th September 2007
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller View Post
Can someone please save me the trouble of reading every post and just tell me who's opinion is the right one?
Sure. That would be mine. And to recap I'll summarize in the following manner:

1.) If you're good it doesn't matter what you use
2.) If you're not good it also doesn't matter what you use - but for a different reason than if you were good.
3.) Some people who are very good have really strong opinions about how to do things, which sometimes differ from what other very good people think
3a.) It's sometimes useful to listen to people who are good and picky
3b.) Part of being good is to know when to listen to people, and when to disregard them
4.) Some people who are not good also have strong opinions about how to do things. However, their opinion is irrelevant, no matter how loudly they try to voice it.
5.) Bob Clearmountain makes a lot more money than I do.
Old 6th September 2007
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post

1.) If you're good it doesn't matter what you use
so you're telling me that a good chef can take awful tasting, lousy quality chocolate that is bitter and chalky and waxy and really, really bad.....and make a world class chocolate mousse out of it?

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