The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Focal Twins vs. PMC vs. Klein&Hummel vs. Bowers&Wilkins? Help me decide Studio Monitors
Old 30th August 2007
  #1
Lives for gear
Focal Twins vs. PMC vs. Klein&Hummel vs. Bowers&Wilkins? Help me decide

PMC TBS2A $3000/pair
Klein & Hummel 0300D $4300/pair
Bowers & Wilkins 805s $2500/pair
Focal twins $2900/pair

I am currently using Genelec 1031A's and just find it difficult mixing and not the most enjoyable experience listening on them and would like to try something else in a similar price range (around and under $4k). Can anybody with experience help me decide.
Old 30th August 2007
  #2
The Focal Twin 6's are the best bet for the most accurate representation of what is actually going on. The Twins (and the solo's) are incredibly smooth. They are certainly accurate all the way down to 40hz and DO force you to really work on the mix, more so than some other well known "pretty" sounding speakers.

When working with the Twins, I have noticed that I can listen extremely loud when mixing for long periods of time and at the end of my session, I don't have any ear fatigue and still have some perspective about what I did to the elements of the mix.

I have found that the Twins reference amazingly well on the street (crappy car stereo or the radio rahiem ghetto blaster). To my ears, the Focals don't have a "sound". If they do have a sound, that sound can only be categorized as "smooth" and "real". The Focals are simply a catalyst between you and your music.

For those of you how get upset when you see words you don't understand
"Catalyst" means;

"One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences"

Sorry, I am in an unusually pissy mood today!

Monitors that have a “sound” are not professional tools in my opinion. If there is a false representation between your recording deck and your ears, how the hell are you ever going to know what is happening?

that’s my 2 cents

peace
mixwell
Old 30th August 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 
miqer's Avatar
 

I've heard the K&H and the Focals in different rooms, different times... I have not worked on them... so here are my 2 cents:

To me (very personal) it's:

- The K&H if you are into electronic dance music... cause they've got a lot of pumping low end.

- The Focals if you are ALSO into other kind of music, like rock and folk, classical and so...

I'm sure the Hummels could take on different styles, it's just a feeling I got from listening to some Cd's...

Both are great...
m.
Old 30th August 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Sui_City's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miqer View Post
- The K&H if you are into electronic dance music... cause they've got a lot of pumping low end.

- The Focals if you are ALSO into other kind of music, like rock and folk, classical and so...
Funnily enough, a friend bought a pair of Twins because the K&Hs couldn't put out the low-end. He said they were very tight down there, but just could not handle high spl.
Old 30th August 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
miqer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sui_City View Post
Funnily enough, a friend bought a pair of Twins because the K&Hs couldn't put out the low-end. He said they were very tight down there, but just could not handle high spl.
Perhaps it was the fact that the studio where I heard the focals was nice and warm, and the owner gave me a latte... while the studio I heard the K&H was run by a German speed junky. I asked him for a drink and he didn't give me anything...

PMC, Adam, Focal, K&H, all killer monitors...

m.
Old 31st August 2007
  #6
Reg
Gear Maniac
 
Reg's Avatar
You know what, I have the same opinion as Mixwell. I just bought the Focal Twins a week ago and I'm still running all types of music to help with the breakin period. To me, the Focals will do the job. What I hear is the music and how it was mixed in the purest form. That is good enought for my ears. The relationship between them and me took an hour or so to ajust and then I understood what they were telling me. I am sure that the $6000 and up pairs will do even more of what I'm talking about. I also bought the Sub6 for when I need better bottom end reference, and these work extremely well for that purpose. I did not want to spend more then what I paid for the Twins in order to get great results, but with these my quest is over, well, until I win a lottery. Bare in mind that I'm moving up from the Mackies that took lot's of time to work around all of it's false monitoring. Price wise for what your getting, it's a no brainer as some would say. My opinion,good or bad, but I'm happy. Best of luck and all the best.
Old 31st August 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Stick's Avatar
 

Just went from 1031s to the the Twins. I'm still just getting used to them, but I don't feel like I'm fighting the speaker as I did with the Genes.

I haven't tried the others you asked about, so, I'm probably not that much help. But, that said, I'm not sorry I bought what I did.

Besides, the beautiful cabinets match my wood floor in the studio. And as we all know, it doesn't matter what it sounds like as long as it looks good.
Old 31st August 2007
  #8
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
[COLOR=black]Monitors that have a “sound” are not professional tools in my opinion.

where does that leave ns10's then?

of *course* the focals have a sound, i'd call it bright, tight and focused. adams, otoh, sound honky, tight, and focused to me. if something makes a sound it has a sound; the fact that the sound they have translates to other speakers doesn't mean they don't have a sound, it just means the sound doesn't prevent you from doing your job.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 31st August 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
where does that leave ns10's then?

of *course* the focals have a sound, i'd call it bright, tight and focused. adams, otoh, sound honky, tight, and focused to me. if something makes a sound it has a sound; the fact that the sound they have translates to other speakers doesn't mean they don't have a sound, it just means the sound doesn't prevent you from doing your job.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
I hope when you say "bright" that what you really mean is "open". Cuz bright technically means rise in the treble. And I'm looking for monitors that will serve me as a reference.
Old 31st August 2007
  #10
Reg
Gear Maniac
 
Reg's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I hope when you say "bright" that what you really mean is "open". Cuz bright technically means rise in the treble. And I'm looking for monitors that will serve me as a reference.
I would say, bright as in open and clear,or as being able to understand whats going on. Of course, my opinion again.
Old 31st August 2007
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Spec's Avatar
just make sure you listen the PMC before you make the decision. the pmc are v.v. flat and hyper natural sounding. (if such a thing exists). sort of like a mastering type monitoring experience. flat and detailed right across the spectrum with a surprising amount of low end. they also sound good at low volumes and v. non fatiguing. also they have a MASSIVE wide sound stage. the imaging is really amazing.

as you can tell i have been v. impressed with these monitors.

i also bought the focals (the solos because the twins would not fit in my room) the focals a v. tight and detailed sounding monitor and great value for money at under 3K. as others have said the twins would especially suit someone who is particularly mid focused in their mixing. lots of detail in especially in the 100 -250 range.

great selection of monitors to chose from.

just an observation but i see you have not thought about the bigger adam monitors?

spek
Old 31st August 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec View Post
just make sure you listen the PMC before you make the decision. the pmc are v.v. flat and hyper natural sounding. (if such a thing exists). sort of like a mastering type monitoring experience. flat and detailed right across the spectrum with a surprising amount of low end. they also sound good at low volumes and v. non fatiguing. also they have a MASSIVE wide sound stage. the imaging is really amazing.

as you can tell i have been v. impressed with these monitors.

i also bought the focals (the solos because the twins would not fit in my room) the focals a v. tight and detailed sounding monitor and great value for money at under 3K. as others have said the twins would especially suit someone who is particularly mid focused in their mixing. lots of detail in especially in the 100 -250 range.

great selection of monitors to chose from.

just an observation but i see you have not thought about the bigger adam monitors?

spek
I listened to the PMC AML-1's at guitar center the other day. All I can say is Wow. Its like the music becomes a 3d reality. Its almost scary and they just sound so good and the separation between the instruments was incredible that I don't think they will make me work at all to make things sound good. I just can't see anything sounding bad on them. From everything everybody has said and from reading other posts it seems everyone is pointing in the direction of the focal twins and so far that is where I am headed. I have no doubt if I had the money some day I would love to have the PMC's just for pure pleasure but I am sure the focals are plenty pleasurable but I have a feeling they will be a better mixing tool for me which is the monitor's purpose afterall. I am going to call puremix tomorrow and see if I can demo the focals and I'll post my findings soon.
Old 1st September 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I listened to the PMC AML-1's at guitar center the other day.
Hold on a sec! The $7000 AML-1's are in a completely different ballpark from the $3000 TB2's and all the other monitors you said you were originally interested in!
Old 1st September 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
Hold on a sec! The $7000 AML-1's are in a completely different ballpark from the $3000 TB2's and all the other monitors you said you were originally interested in!
I know. They didn't have TB2's but I figure I should take a listen to it.
Old 1st September 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
Well so far I think I have it narrowed down to:

Focal Twin 6 $2900/pair
Bowers & Wilkins 805s $2500/pair

Has anyone had experience with these 2 and can sway me either way?
Old 1st September 2007
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
PMC TBS2A $3000/pair
Klein & Hummel 0300D $4300/pair
Bowers & Wilkins 805s $2500/pair
Focal twins $2900/pair

I am currently using Genelec 1031A's and just find it difficult mixing and not the most enjoyable experience listening on them and would like to try something else in a similar price range (around and under $4k). Can anybody with experience help me decide.
I have the K&Hs, and love them. The analog only model is cheaper than the D model. I have the analog one (O300), and the only reason to get the O300D (digital), would be if you connect direct from a digital desk or computer I guess.

I compared the O300s to the focal twins, and adams, and dynaudio, genelecs... before I bought them. To me, the focals were to heavy on the top frequencies. The ones I would have got if I didn't get the O300s, was the adams, which also sounded great.

Monitors are personal, so listen before you buy.
Old 1st September 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 
paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
The Focal Twin 6's are the best bet for the most accurate representation of what is actually going on. The Twins (and the solo's) are incredibly smooth. They are certainly accurate all the way down to 40hz and DO force you to really work on the mix, more so than some other well known "pretty" sounding speakers.

When working with the Twins, I have noticed that I can listen extremely loud when mixing for long periods of time and at the end of my session, I don't have any ear fatigue and still have some perspective about what I did to the elements of the mix.

I have found that the Twins reference amazingly well on the street (crappy car stereo or the radio rahiem ghetto blaster). To my ears, the Focals don't have a "sound". If they do have a sound, that sound can only be categorized as "smooth" and "real". The Focals are simply a catalyst between you and your music.

For those of you how get upset when you see words you don't understand
"Catalyst" means;

"One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences"

Sorry, I am in an unusually pissy mood today!

Monitors that have a “sound” are not professional tools in my opinion. If there is a false representation between your recording deck and your ears, how the hell are you ever going to know what is happening?

that’s my 2 cents

peace
mixwell
Is it just me, or are these new Mercenary sales ads really funny?? I especially like the vocabulary lesson...
Old 1st September 2007
  #18
Reg
Gear Maniac
 
Reg's Avatar
Again, proof that one monitor against another would get were you need to be or like to be in order to trust your mix. The best would be to have three or four different monitors for the given project since it seems one does better than the other depending on what your mixing. I also find the Focal top heavy on certain mixes, but that may just be the way it was mixed. Not all mixes even fron the top bands out there are to my taste. On other material the top end is perfect and clear, very open, So go figure, winning a lottery would fix that and thats what I would do. Since there are so many different opinions on what sounds good and translate well, there must be a relation how different mics or pre-amps work best on different sources also. Maybe monitors somewhat follow this rule, depending what's pumped into them will give varied results. Just like audiophile speakers sound better on one source than the other. Just my humble opinion folks and I may be full of it, but there is no real answer out there that I can be sure of. So I buy the one I can afford the most and learn to work with them and there short commings. After all I'm an X Mackie 824 user and the Focal Twins leave them far, far behind in a cloud of smoke.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #19
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I hope when you say "bright" that what you really mean is "open". Cuz bright technically means rise in the treble. And I'm looking for monitors that will serve me as a reference.

i confess i don't know what bright technically means, what it means to me is that the high's are more forward than i'm accustomed to. they're also extremely extended, flat to 40k. it's not a brightness i find in the least bit irritating or fatiguing, it's more akin to a high intensity light that a surgeon shines on the brain of his etherized patient so he can see what the hell he's doing. in fact i don't particularly love their sound for music enjoyment, they're too revealing and i like my playback system on the dark and wooly side, hence my penchant for vinyl and it's mojo and also hence my impression of most studio monitors as 'bright'.

one of my favorite monitors in the world is the adam s3a and to me it sounds 'honky', like an ns10 that reaches further out in both directions.

but it doesn't matter how anyone characterizes the sound, what matters is how well it will work for you as a tool to achieve your goals. the twins seem to work extremely well for a lot of people, but then again so do adam's and pmc's (which i find extraordinarily bright) and atc's. you've got it narrowed down to two choices, get them both in your room and mix on them; it'll be pretty clear which you gel with.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
pmc's (which i find extraordinarily bright)
Hmm... 'extraordinarily bright' is a rare critique to find of PMC's but as always YMMV!

Just out of interest, which model are you referring to? And if it's the TB2's that this thread primarily refers to was it the '+' version with the improved, smoother tweeter?
Old 4th September 2007
  #21
I own TB2S-A's and wouldn't say bright either.
balanced and integrated is what i would say about them.
clean without seeming bright. also the bass extension is like nothing i have ever seen in a 2 way. it goes low. I Love them.

I have heard and mixed a small amount on Spec's Focal 'Solo 6's' and I would characterise them as brighter than PMC TB2S-A's, but not un-balanced. There is just a particular sound to those berylium tweeters. you really hear the tweeters working, though i suspect hardly as much as Monitors with ribbons.

With the Focal Twins i'm sure the low frequency extension is better than on the Solo's and with the extra driver no doubt the extra work that the 'solo 6' low frequency driver has to do is relieved. so the lower mid accuracy is bound to be somewhat better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann View Post
Hmm... 'extraordinarily bright' is a rare critique to find of PMC's but as always YMMV!

Just out of interest, which model are you referring to? And if it's the TB2's that this thread primarily refers to was it the '+' version with the improved, smoother tweeter?
Old 4th September 2007
  #22
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

regarding pmc's, every pair i've ever heard, i feel like all i hear is air. there's a constant "hhhhaaahhhhh" on every single sound. not that this is a bad thing, i hear focals as bright and i hear atc's as bright as well; i may just be more sensitive to high's than other people (not that i can hear them better, just that i'm more sensitive).

it probably doesn't help that my playback systems tend to be tubey and mellow bordering on dark, and that i listen to vinyl as much as cd, so my ears and brain consider that the baseline.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 4th September 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
Well I think I have narrowed my options down to either the Focal Twins or Bowers&Wilkins 805s. Does anyone have experience with these two?
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Lectra / High end
41
vls / High end
4
kalle1978 / High end
43
petsematary / So much gear, so little time
6
MASSIVE Master / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
6

Forum Jump
Forum Jump