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Is it ever a good idea to add reverb to the overheads? Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 29th August 2007
  #1
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ryst's Avatar
 

Is it ever a good idea to add reverb to the overheads?

I have been mixing a lot of rock and I just realized that when I add reverb to the drum kit, it's usually just to the snare, kick, and toms. I have, in the past, tried to add some verb to the OH mics but always found that:

A: they don't need them
B: they make the cymbals sound like poop (even with just a little and tried with different verbs)
C: Adding verb to the snare can make the whole kit sound more ambient.

So, do you guys add verb to the OH's at all?
Old 29th August 2007
  #2
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst View Post
I have been mixing a lot of rock and I just realized that when I add reverb to the drum kit, it's usually just to the snare, kick, and toms. I have, in the past, tried to add some verb to the OH mics but always found that:

A: they don't need them
B: they make the cymbals sound like poop (even with just a little and tried with different verbs)
C: Adding verb to the snare can make the whole kit sound more ambient.

So, do you guys add verb to the OH's at all?
I know peeps say never say never but.... I tried and tried to make that work and it never did.
Just a verb on the snare usually works a treat for me. Might be because my drum room is so **** and dead at the mo.
Will be interested to see what other peeps say.
Old 29th August 2007
  #3
I usually add a subtle amount of short plate...it adds a little glue to the entire kit IME.
Old 29th August 2007
  #4
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

I add it to the entire sub-group, usually not much though.

War
Old 29th August 2007
  #5
I use it. It sorta depends on the style though. One thing I copped from Andy Wallace's work on the Jeff Buckley "Grace" record was using a hall-type verb with a low pass filter BEFORE it, set waaaay high (like, at least 500 Hz, preferably closer to 1k or even higher). So only the upper mids and top stuff is hitting the verb. Then set a pre delay of an eight or sixteenth, and push the send the verb up till you get a nice rhythmic "air".

I also prefer to use reverb on OHs when there's no room mic in the mix, particularly for toms, because I think reverb on toms generally sounds funny.

The other trick I use is a "room" or "ambience" setting on the OHs for space on the snare, and a plate on the snare itself.

I dunno. There's a buncha **** you can do.

I'd say go for it, and don't be afraid to EQ your verb aux (pre or post reverb).

Old 29th August 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
My new favorite is to leave all the close mics and overheads dry, and add reverb ONLY to the room mics....placed about 10 or 15 feet away from the kit.
It is a perfect way to maintain the punchy sound of the drums, and the ambience seems much more real.
Old 29th August 2007
  #7
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Sigma's Avatar
possibly in an open ballad
Old 30th August 2007
  #8
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BradM's Avatar
I have zero luck putting any kind of reverb on drums whatsoever. Maybe I'm just a ****** and I have no clue how to use reverb. I can never get it to sound right. I have much better luck mixing in a room mic that has the sustain boosted from a Transient Designer and then is compressed with short attack and release. What has also worked really well and I want to do more of is record drum samples of the snare with that same room mic and use Drumagog to trigger in the mix. So in other words I use Drumagog on a send or a duplicate snare track as my snare verb. The cool part is the verb is actually the drum being played in the actual room.

Brad
Old 30th August 2007
  #9
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octatonic's Avatar
I have three drum reverbs set up at all times.

A short fat plate, a medium room and a long hall.
Overheads get sent to the plate and the room but not to the hall.

Same with the toms but they might go to the halls a tad.
A tiny amount of kick goes to the plate.
The snare goes to all three.
Hihat mic (if I use it) might get a tiny amount of plate and room.

We are talking very small amounts of very to anything other than the snare.
I like my snares to have a bit of verb behind them... but I grew up in the 80s. :-)
Old 30th August 2007
  #10
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johnwayne's Avatar
 

I rarely use reverb on drums at all but when I do it's usually on the drum bus. I don't like it on the snare. I'd much rather add in the room mic which is compressed to hell. I do like a short delay now and again. It seems to add a fullness to the snare when set right. Parallel compression and delay seem to work better for me on drums than verb. It really depends on what you like.
Old 30th August 2007
  #11
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BLueROom's Avatar
 

short plate (UAD Plate 140), fatten up the low mids a bit on the 140, place small amount on OHs, small amount on snare, none on toms ...sometimes the kick will get a little, sometimes nothing. a little predelay will go a long way.
Old 30th August 2007
  #12
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLueROom View Post
short plate (UAD Plate 140), fatten up the low mids a bit on the 140, place small amount on OHs, small amount on snare, none on toms ...sometimes the kick will get a little, sometimes nothing. a little predelay will go a long way.
OK concerning individual drums I LOVE that 140 plate also, set very short! It can add a whole new wham-bam level to kick, snare and toms.

War
Old 30th August 2007
  #13
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soupking's Avatar
 

I don't know about verbs, but the TD4 does some magical stuff.
Old 30th August 2007
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

This works for me:

I have a drum verb,
a vocal verb
a guitar verb
an piano verb etc,

whatever thats in the mix.

I'll feed a large amount of the dedicated instrument to that verb,
then a little bit of the other instruments aswell to the reverb it may concern.


This somehow makes a lot of depth, makes up for the lack of bleed, and is great glue for the whole thing.

Of the kit, usually only the overheads, or DRUM MICS as i call them, because they are placed properly, gets reverberated. Sometimes other individual drums as needed for fx.

I also automate the reverb returns a whole lot, actually the reverb returns and master fader is stuff i automate the most in a mix.

Go figure.

It works in my world
Old 30th August 2007
  #15
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst View Post
So, do you guys add verb to the OH's at all?
on about 9 out of every 10 records I mix.
Old 30th August 2007
  #16
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ryst's Avatar
 

Ok. I have Altiverb. Any recommendations for a good IR in Altiverb for OH's? I have tried quite a few of them but I am still not happy with the results.
Old 30th August 2007
  #17
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Legacy Audio's Avatar
Love a bit of RMX16 in Non-Lin mode on overheads.
Fattens things up nicely.
Old 30th August 2007
  #18
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Try the Allaire rooms.

J
Old 30th August 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

I always add reverb to the OHs on any track. My room is small, and most drummers i record are cymbal bashers, so the reverbs tame the cymbals a little bit while giving the rest of the drums a sense of depth. For the type of reverb, i pick whatever i feel that will give the drums more size and to glue it on the mix.

Otherwise, when i have room mics, i leave the verbs alone and use the room mics to that purpose.
Old 30th August 2007
  #20
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I dunno. There's a buncha **** you can do.
That's like my new favorite quote.
Old 30th August 2007
  #21
If it's a session with no tom mics, I always add ambiance to the overheads. I hate the sound of cymbals through digital reverbs so I low pass the sends at 2~4k hz. This works very well with jazz sessions, it sort of glues the kit together and removes some of that dry close mic sound.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 30th August 2007
  #22
Gear Guru
 
Glenn Kuras's Avatar
Anyone want to post some OH samples with and without verb?

Glenn
Old 30th August 2007
  #23
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
I use it. It sorta depends on the style though. One thing I copped from Andy Wallace's work on the Jeff Buckley "Grace" record was using a hall-type verb with a low pass filter BEFORE it, set waaaay high (like, at least 500 Hz, preferably closer to 1k or even higher). So only the upper mids and top stuff is hitting the verb. Then set a pre delay of an eight or sixteenth, and push the send the verb up till you get a nice rhythmic "air".

This doesn't make sense. Surely you meant "high pass", not "low pass". High pass let's only the upper frequencies go through or "pass".

Just getting clarification... sounds like it might be a neat trick. I do like that record, and I will have to back and listen for that.
Old 30th August 2007
  #24
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mr. knuckles's Avatar
 

I've never gotten the drum verb thing right myself. What does work for me is parallel compression with select drum mics sent the the group prefader. Sometimes OH's will be sent, sometimes the rooms (along with kick in, sn up and down, toms). I also enjoy extremely compressing the bottom snare mic for an illusion of ambience.
I would be interested in a real in depth conversation on multiple reverbs on a mix, or drums alone. Seems like I've only read breif opinions, nothing really deep on it.
Old 30th August 2007
  #25
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willerichey's Avatar
 

My 2 cents........

I have found that if you can hear the reverb and say "wow thats reverb" then you are probably blending it in too much. IMHO all revebs should be used to perceive a natural acoustic space, unless of course you are using it for creative effect.

I use a tad bit on the snare and overheads occasionally. Both are on separate busses and blended in listening to the mix loudly and quietly and making the appropriate adjustments. Sometimes a snare will fight for the front and center space (with vocals, non panned guitars, and sometimes even the upper mid frequencies in a bass) so i use the reverb to set it back. Reverb is used to add depth and dimension to a mix.

The biggest misconception in recording I think is that there is some mythical set of rules everyone must follow at all times. Although, like everything else there are basic fundamentals that must be learned before you can bend or break the rules.
Old 30th August 2007
  #26
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Beardhead's Avatar
 

Also to the drum bus here. Played around with the free SSL LMC1 compressor after the verb, was cool. Found this on the SLS homepage about the LMC: "Its fixed attack and release curves were eminently suitable for use on ambient drums mics." Well.
Just add a bit of that and then put everything together into the SMC 2B.

Claus
Old 30th August 2007
  #27
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
I don't mean this to start an argument, but how many of you guys that can not get verb to work on overheads have only plug in verb at your disposal. Any time I try it with a Lex PCM 90 or the Bricasti is takes about 10 seconds to get it sounding good. Again, not trying to start a fight. Its just that the depth thing that I usually go for when putting verb on OHs seems to be one area where I can not really get plug in verbs to do the trick.
Old 30th August 2007
  #28
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Sorry to repeat what others have said but for the sake of statistics if I ever put reverb on the drums, which is rarely, it is always on the OHs first, unless I have a room mic. I'll use a medium ambient room or a short plate and bring it up just until I can hear the tails on the snare hits. Much more natural than 'verb on individual drums.

I will use reverb on individual drum mics on occasion, but only to cover-up unavoidable tracking errors or for special effects.
Old 30th August 2007
  #29
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ryst's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I don't mean this to start an argument, but how many of you guys that can not get verb to work on overheads have only plug in verb at your disposal. Any time I try it with a Lex PCM 90 or the Bricasti is takes about 10 seconds to get it sounding good. Again, not trying to start a fight. Its just that the depth thing that I usually go for when putting verb on OHs seems to be one area where I can not really get plug in verbs to do the trick.
rcm,

Were you a bully in high school? Kidding!

I think you might be right. I love Altiverb a TON of IR's but finding one that works for OH's has been a challenge. I think I would be better off "re-amping" my OH's in a big room to get some ambience happening if I need it.
Old 30th August 2007
  #30
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BradM's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I don't mean this to start an argument, but how many of you guys that can not get verb to work on overheads have only plug in verb at your disposal. Any time I try it with a Lex PCM 90 or the Bricasti is takes about 10 seconds to get it sounding good. Again, not trying to start a fight. Its just that the depth thing that I usually go for when putting verb on OHs seems to be one area where I can not really get plug in verbs to do the trick.
This is a really good point. Perhaps I just don't have access to a decent reverb box. Even still. It's so much more fun to actually record drums in a room with ambience.

If someone could post a clip of dry and processed drums using a box like the PCM90 or the Bricasti I'd love to hear what I'm missing.

Brad
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