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Josephson c42 ..... too good to be true?? Condenser Microphones
Old 29th August 2007
  #1
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Igotsoul4u's Avatar
Josephson c42 ..... too good to be true??

I am a huge km84 fan and would buy a pair, but they are expensive and semi rare. This is the description of the Josephson c42 from mercenary audio .

"While the "vintage" KM-84 has a thickness to it the KM-184 didn't. The C-42 does. It also has a bit of extra sparkle on the top end which makes it perfect for High Hats, Drum Overheads, Acoustic Guitar, Cello, and even Piano. If you're just thinking of using for say High Hat then get the single unit... if you're thinking of using it for Piano, Drum Overheads, etc... then the C-42 MP [matched pair] is for you."

Seems like a dream come true mic as the km84 is one of my top 5 favorite mics. Is this comparison accurate as far as any Josephson owners are concerned. I get skeptical when newer cheaper mics get likened to a vintage classic. I am also considering the peluso cemc6 as a brighter option but normally I like darker mics.
Old 29th August 2007
  #2
The Josephson c42 is a GREAT microphone, as is the KM84. I own three excellent KM84s so I have fun comparing pretty often. Although they are on the same quality level IMO, they aren't alike. The KM84 is very mid emphasized, where the c42 has much more sparkle in the top [but still very smooth, like taking an expensive eq and boosting a rise in the top frequencies]. I also hear the KM84 as a bit 'slower' sounding, and slightly noisier. Enough to make it a different sounding microphone and only comparable in the fact that they both are SDCs. Are they interchangeable in many situations, yes. I often find myself pulling low mids out of the Neumanns, which essentially and relatively boosts highs. But don't expect a one to one exact recreation of the KM84, because it's not, and I don't think it's supposed to be [again similar quality level, different character].

The only new small diaphragm mic that I've encountered with a flat top [no rise] is the Schoeps CMC6 MK4. Also an incredible mic, at the top of the mountain for quality. The Gefell 295 and M300 are also excellent mics, but again, don't expect 'flat'...they have a significant rise in the top frequencies [not harsh though]. The Josephson e22s is a good choice also if you are looking for a fat sounding small diaphragm. No small emphasis on fat, because the proximity is similar to some ribbons I've heard, or like a U47. Big lows, even at a foot away. At least double the emphasis in the lows as that of the KM84. There is a small high mid bump on the e22s also which gives it a little bit of presence, and the extreme top sounds relatively flat. It has about as much coloration as an original KM84, where the Gefells and c42 are definitely less colored.
Old 29th August 2007
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Tom VDH's Avatar
 

I've always found mine (pair of C42s) very bright, and very very detailed. Lots of 'air'...
They sound very 'modern', if that makes sense...
I like them for 'clean' accoustic work, but I'd go for something else for a more vintage vibe (ribbons probably). But then again, ymmv, and if you know what you're doing, there's no reason to not get a nice result out of these mics.

Cheers,
Old 29th August 2007
  #4
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Kris's Avatar
If you're looking for something to use in similar applications, that will sound nice, then for sure, consider the c42. It is a cool mic. If you are looking for something that sounds as close to and as sweet as a km84, you might want to look elsewhere.
Old 29th August 2007
  #5
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

i had a chance to A/B a pair of C 42's with a pair of km 184's when i was in the market of a pair of SDC's. in the shootout we tried both on OH's and Ac GTR(martin D 35).

there were 4 people(2 engineers, 2 musicians) there and everyone chose the km 184's hands down on both sources. the C42's sounded a little "cheaper" for lack of a better term. just not as smooth and silky to any of our ears.

i would agree with the earlier statement that the C42's sound "modern" in a way that i didnt particularly care for, but some people might find useful.

the difference was significant enough for me to spend the extra money and buy the km 184's and i must say i dont regret it.
so far, they have been very useful and sound quite nice to me in many applications.

that said, i bet you can get really good results with the C42's as well.

i havent heard km 84's next to the 184's but im curious......................
Old 29th August 2007
  #6
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Kris's Avatar
I did a comparison a while back and came to a similar conclusion. Now take your km184, add a generous spoonful of body, depth and sweetness... = km84. I don't care how much in value they go up over the years. These are mics that I will NEVER sell!
Old 29th August 2007
  #7
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I have to disagree as I've used all these mics in question pretty extensively. Your closest bet is a Beyer MC930. The HF bump is centered around 10k as opposed to 5k like the c42 or 184.
Old 29th August 2007
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

+1 on the 930
Old 29th August 2007
  #9
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jonboyrock's Avatar
 

I loved my c 42's... I love the studio's km84s. together, unbeatable! Wish I had some more... of either!!!thumbsup
Old 19th October 2007
  #10
I've been using the Josephson C42 on acoustic guitars and overheads for quite some time now, recently I tried it on the hihat and I was SURPRISED by the fantastic directionality and off-axis rejection - it just beat the crap out of my regular hi hat mics - Shure SM81 and AKG 451 - the hihat is dark with a detailed top end that is not harsh or brittle at all (smooth?). Ill be using this C42 mic on hats more often.
Old 19th October 2007
  #11
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keiffer's Avatar
 

can anyone make 10,000 ft comparisons between the C42 and e22S
Old 19th October 2007
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonixx View Post
can anyone make 10,000 ft comparisons between the C42 and e22S
They are pretty much opposites.

In a nutshell:

e22s: very fat in the lows (even @ 18 inches away from the source it sounds like it's up a few db's around 150 Hz). Not airy or bright, just a small subtle bump in the high mids. Quite a bit of coloration & character. Low output (intended for up close tom and snare micing).

c42: Cleaner and brighter than the e22s. A slightly faster overall sound too as compared to e22s. Sounds like a roll off in the lows and a gentle even rise in the top frequencies.
Old 19th October 2007
  #13
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keiffer's Avatar
 

thanks...

I've had a pair of e22S for several years and have had an interest in the differences. I've used the e22S some as overheads with pleasant results.
Old 5th December 2007
  #14
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joninc's Avatar
 

how would the C42 compare to the akg 451s? i have a pair of 451 and i would like to get a pair that are a little smoother and less zippy - more tone and less "ZING". are they equally as bright?
Old 5th December 2007
  #15
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robmix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybluerental View Post
i had a chance to A/B a pair of C 42's with a pair of km 184's when i was in the market of a pair of SDC's. in the shootout we tried both on OH's and Ac GTR(martin D 35).

there were 4 people(2 engineers, 2 musicians) there and everyone chose the km 184's hands down on both sources. the C42's sounded a little "cheaper" for lack of a better term. just not as smooth and silky to any of our ears.

i would agree with the earlier statement that the C42's sound "modern" in a way that i didnt particularly care for, but some people might find useful.

the difference was significant enough for me to spend the extra money and buy the km 184's and i must say i dont regret it.
so far, they have been very useful and sound quite nice to me in many applications.

that said, i bet you can get really good results with the C42's as well.

i havent heard km 84's next to the 184's but im curious......................

really, I've had the exact opposite happen. Just goes to show you, everyone hears things differently, and there is no right or wrong.
Old 6th December 2007
  #16
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lectric's Avatar
 

+1 for the Beyerdynamic MC930... A very nice mic and a great price¡¡¡¡
Old 6th December 2007
  #17
Gear Head
 

I have a matched pair of C42's, and they constantly win over at my studio compared to the KM184's. It could also be that I was tired using the same mics for acoustic guitar, drum overheads, etc, but every time I throw up the C42's on acoustic combined with a nice room mic, I'm always impressed with the results.

If there's any interest, I can post up some clips of recordings I've done with the C42. I recorded a classical pianist just recently with the pair of C42's and a U87 as a close room mic. Also, acoustic guitar with the C42 close up and a pair of U87's as room mics.
Old 6th December 2007
  #18
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumnbimmer View Post

If there's any interest, I can post up some clips of recordings I've done with the C42.
I think I speak for everyone when I say, "Oh yes, there is interest, my friend."
Old 9th December 2007
  #19
Gear Head
 

^ Will post later tonight, heading to GC to get a new power conditioner because mine just blew and caused my BLA modded 002 to fry. I'm not have a great week....
Old 9th December 2007
  #20
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jahtao's Avatar
Last time i compared C42's and KM184's they were instantly recognizable as very different. The 184's had a smooth, silky, top end and the C42's had a bit more to them. Never heard KM84's.
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