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Is there any Reverb software that can replace a Lexicon??? Multi-Effects Processors (HW)
Old 29th August 2007
  #1
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Is there any Reverb software that can replace a Lexicon???

I am considering spending $3400 to get an apogee rosetta (so I can have multiple outputs to be able to use external effects with my DAW) and a used Lexicon pcm-70. I am wondering if there is any reverb software/plugins out there that I can use that can save me $3400. I will eventually spend $10,000 or whatever to get protools (which will give me multiple outputs to be able to use external effects) but I want to know if there is something I can use in the mean time that can replace getting a Lexicon pcm-70.
Old 29th August 2007
  #2
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Watersound's Avatar
 

First off, 3400 for a rosetta is a rip. Who quoted you that price? I prefer hardware reverb over plugs but some plugs are pretty good. What converters are you using now that you want to upgrade to a Rosetta from?
Old 29th August 2007
  #3
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Tibbon's Avatar
You could always use the Nubus Lexicon card. Just need an extra 9600 or whatever to run it in, then just run thought digital i/o.

Also keep in mind that several lexicons have digital i/o that you can use. You don't get the 'sound' of the convertors, but that's not what you're going for. Lexicon isn't a conversion/clocking company, they are an effects company (well and now that Harmon has them, they aren't much of anything).

There's also that new Bricasti thing. Seems to do the lexicon thing you're wanting better than real lexicon stuff.
Old 29th August 2007
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watersound View Post
First off, 3400 for a rosetta is a rip. Who quoted you that price? I prefer hardware reverb over plugs but some plugs are pretty good. What converters are you using now that you want to upgrade to a Rosetta from?
$3400 is for rosetta plus used lexicon PCM-70 ($2700 + $700). I am currently using an apogee mini-dac.
Old 29th August 2007
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
You could always use the Nubus Lexicon card. Just need an extra 9600 or whatever to run it in, then just run thought digital i/o.

Also keep in mind that several lexicons have digital i/o that you can use. You don't get the 'sound' of the convertors, but that's not what you're going for. Lexicon isn't a conversion/clocking company, they are an effects company (well and now that Harmon has them, they aren't much of anything).

There's also that new Bricasti thing. Seems to do the lexicon thing you're wanting better than real lexicon stuff.
What is this Nubus Lexicon Card you speak of. I never heard of it. What is a 9600? I have a PC running Sonar is it compatible?
Old 29th August 2007
  #6
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Tibbon's Avatar
Someone else might be able to fill us in better, but the Nubus was a computer slot pre-PCI.

Lexicon took and put their reverb DSP on a chip on a card called NuVerb. It ran on old macs. According to their website you can't run it past OS 7.6. Someone's gotten it running with 8.6.

Lexicon®

A 9600 is a Mac. Old, but good. I think that might actually be too new to run it.

Anyway, it's supposed to sound smashing (close to a Lexicon 300), and fairly cheap if you can find it. You can run multiple of them in a system.

It's only 20-bits (you can run 24 to it and the LSBs get chopped), but it still sounds great and hell... no system has 144dB of actually headroom anyway!

It's not at all PC compatable, but as long as you have room in your iso cabinet/machine room... then it's a great way to go.
Old 29th August 2007
  #7
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Watersound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
$3400 is for rosetta plus used lexicon PCM-70 ($2700 + $700). I am currently using an apogee mini-dac.
Ahhh ok, just looking outheh Well if it were me I'd get the Rosetta and Lex but I'm irresponsible.
Old 29th August 2007
  #8
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Casey's Avatar
 

To your original question...

Doesn't Sonar come with Lexicons Pantheon reverb. Have you tried it? AFAIK it's as close as a plugin gets to the basic Lex sound. If thats not working for you, then you are likely on the right track looking at hardware.

But I would think you could get a 300 (with dig I/O) for your $3400, which you might like a bit better than the 70. If you do go for the 70, make sure you find one with version 2 software.

-Casey
Old 29th August 2007
  #9
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Clayphish's Avatar
 

Have you looked into convolution? There are lots of lexicon impulses floating around. Check out noisevault.com
Old 29th August 2007
  #10
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayphish View Post
Have you looked into convolution? There are lots of lexicon impulses floating around. Check out noisevault.com
In my experience... convolution does not sound exactly the same as hardware - most expecially as the 'chorus' aspect of Lexicon hardware reverbs are not reproduced well with convolution.

Old 29th August 2007
  #11
Old 29th August 2007
  #12
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Coyoteous's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwhitney View Post
No.
Yes - uh, I mean I agree. heh

Even Lexicon's old TDM plug (Lexiverb?), didn't sound much like a Lexicon to me. I have 2 Nuverbs, a 70, LXP1&5, MPX 100 and access to a 224. One of my partners has an 80 and a 91, and I've used almost all of the others. They're all different - but share some "sameness." I really don't care much for most of the Lexchip II boxes. I like the 224 family the best of all. And yes, convo's can't do it. I had high hopes for CSR - but, it's not there for me. BreverB says it can, though no one's really heard it, yet... haven't heard the Bricasti, but it's way out of my current budget.
Old 29th August 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Doesn't Sonar come with Lexicons Pantheon reverb. Have you tried it? AFAIK it's as close as a plugin gets to the basic Lex sound. If thats not working for you, then you are likely on the right track looking at hardware.

But I would think you could get a 300 (with dig I/O) for your $3400, which you might like a bit better than the 70. If you do go for the 70, make sure you find one with version 2 software.

-Casey
Unfortunately I have no digital inputs/outputs as I use an apogee ad16x with firewirex card and an apogee minidac. And anyway I would rather have a rosetta (and pcm 70) so I can have 8 outputs and be able to use 6 as busses to hardware effects like lexicon, compressor (dbx and/or distressor are my future purchases), etc...
Old 29th August 2007
  #14
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studjo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
You don't get the 'sound' of the convertors, but that's not what you're going for. Lexicon isn't a conversion/clocking company, they are an effects company (well and now that Harmon has them, they aren't much of anything).
I dunno - I think the magic of the PCM70 and most of all the 480 lies in it's converters. I think the guys designed the thing with the converters in mind. The whole AES/EBU thing is an afterthought (and sounds like one?). Those machines were built with converters in mind and so were the algos programmed - set me straight when I'm wrong


Jo
Old 29th August 2007
  #15
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88fingerz's Avatar
 

IK Multimedia's CSR package is surprisingly good as far as software solutions go. I use it where I used to use a PCM 70 and often mutter to myself, "wow...OK, this'll work".

Often!
Old 29th August 2007
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

I agree about the conversion question, all the good unlinear stuff which makes those reverbs extra special is all about the convertors being sub par.

An 480 or 70 ran with digital connections is nothing special.
Old 29th August 2007
  #17
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Firefox's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjimjim View Post
I agree about the conversion question, all the good unlinear stuff which makes those reverbs extra special is all about the convertors being sub par.
+1 heh
Old 29th August 2007
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88fingerz View Post
IK Multimedia's CSR package is surprisingly good as far as software solutions go. I use it where I used to use a PCM 70 and often mutter to myself, "wow...OK, this'll work".

Often!
Awesome! That's exactly the answer I was looking for (I hope). I will definetely check out that IK stuff, Thanks!
Old 29th August 2007
  #19
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Tibbon's Avatar
If it's all about crappy sounding 20 year old convertors, then this is crap right?
Bricasti Design
Old 29th August 2007
  #20
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ISedlacek's Avatar
Depends what Lexicon you are talking about. If you mean the MPX series - for sure you can find better sounding plugins. But from PCM above, it is almost impossible. It sounds always better, more deep and lush than ANY reverb plugin I tried ...
Old 29th August 2007
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
If it's all about crappy sounding 20 year old convertors, then this is crap right?
Bricasti Design
No I did not talk about Bricasti, I haven't heard it.

But I have Heard numerous 70's and 480's going both digital and analog, and also directly comparing that in my own studio.
Much of the unlinear magic that makes the 480 reverb seem deep and somewhat "content adding" is lost when running them digitally.
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