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How much do you charge? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 3rd September 2007
  #91
Lives for gear
 

Why... what did your wife tell you..
Old 3rd September 2007
  #92
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allencollins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FossilTooth View Post
Oh really? How long have you been working there?



Ok, Ok, I take it back. You're a total f*ing dork.




Great! Then I'm sure that at least 50% of the recordings "I have probably heard" will be on your allmusic page.

Wait.... what's 50% of zero?

Well then, I guess I probably haven't heard them.

----

Listen, I'm just a working stiff freelance engineer who generally makes around $30/hr, room rate not included. I don't have a lot of big credits. You probably haven't heard most of the stuff I've worked on, and I'll happily admit it. Compared to many older professionals I'm pretty small potatoes. So what the hell does that make you?

Now get back to roasting beef and let the grownups talk about commerce.

easy killer, no need to call me names. seriously. get a life
Old 3rd September 2007
  #93
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slaves666's Avatar
WTF is going on here......sheesh

BACK ON TOPIC.

I charge 300 for unproduced, 400 produced per track. Mix @ 100$ per tune, no re-amping, drum editing, comping or tuning vox, 150 with. I track drums in an SSL room for 400 per day, most projects we use 1 day.
Old 4th September 2007
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k
i can mix a tune in 3-4 hours these days. for that rate, there were no clients present and you get one, count 'em one, revision, and no recall ever. this is the glory of mixing analog: when we're done, we move on.
.


All due respect -- with this kind of approach how would you have expected to keep any clients, regardless of the rate?
I hate it when clients seem to expect that there is going to be a revision when they've received the mix and listened to it on their Ipod's.

Clients have gotten so used to recalling mixes in PT that they don't care to get it right the first time. This bugs me as I am converting from itb to otb, and i hate to do a revision of a mix to change a reverb and make that phrase at 2:16 a little louder, not to mention retrack a couple of words in the second verse it's ok for me that the show up at mix time, but when they arrive at the beginning they seem to fall asleep on the coach and be too tired to make any reasonable suggestions when I tell them it's almost finished(perhaps I'm working too slow) ...But accordingly it shouldn't be "free" to recall everything and modify to their wishes when they couldn't find out how they wanted it(or NOT wanted it) earliertutt
Old 4th September 2007
  #95
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
One of the reasons I charge what I charge is so clients can have the freedom to make changes.
As long as the changes are within reason, I prefer the clients make it the way the want it. That way when they walk away, they feel like it was just the way the wanted it.

I recently finished a mix for a client and the client decided they wanted 3 beats taken out of the intro, how do you all deal with that if your automation is on an analog console?
Old 4th September 2007
  #96
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paterno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelin View Post
I hate it when clients seem to expect that there is going to be a revision when they've received the mix and listened to it on their Ipod's.

Clients have gotten so used to recalling mixes in PT that they don't care to get it right the first time. This bugs me as I am converting from itb to otb, and i hate to do a revision of a mix to change a reverb and make that phrase at 2:16 a little louder, not to mention retrack a couple of words in the second verse it's ok for me that the show up at mix time, but when they arrive at the beginning they seem to fall asleep on the coach and be too tired to make any reasonable suggestions when I tell them it's almost finished(perhaps I'm working too slow) ...But accordingly it shouldn't be "free" to recall everything and modify to their wishes when they couldn't find out how they wanted it(or NOT wanted it) earliertutt
If I were a mix client, i would absolutely expect to be able to make a revision. I expect it of mastering as well. There are a lot of mitigating factors for making good mix decisions, and people who don't do it day in and day out may need more time. And if your speakers are not making sense to the artist, then the artist is going to have you make some pretty bad moves, which is a waste of everyone's time.

I think it is important that you should not have them at the mix until there is something for them to do. This way they will be there fresh when they do get an opportunity to listen. Most young bands or artists have no idea what to expect, so the more you prepare them for the scenario you want to work in, the better. Send them home with the mix and make any changes at an appointed time. If necessary, the next morning if you are mixing on a console, or if you are in Protools then set aside a day when you can get to a group of songs and make the necessary changes in one session.

The other important thing is to set terms. Put them in writing [make it professional and not mean-spirited], and give them to the artist before you start working. They can be both cost based and time based. It will then be at your discretion if you want to stray from them. You'll find yourself a lot less frustrated with the clients when you can point to the document and say -- 'well, we discussed this already. Remember this?'. Maybe after the 'changes' session you want to add an hourly fee for anything beyond that. Or give them two rounds of revisions before you start charging more. Or charge them hourly for the mixing. There is something to that saying 'people don't value what they get for free'. Sometimes a reminder that your time is valuable doesn't hurt. And this way, it's done when they run out of money...

You can also print a vocal up and vocal down mix of the song just so you are covered. It could be a lot less of a hassle to edit between versions than open up the entire mix again.

In any event, it is always in your best interested to do the best job you can.

Cheers,
John
Old 4th September 2007
  #97
Lives for gear
 
bongo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
this is the glory of mixing analog: when we're done, we move on.
itb sucks. pro tools is cool but digi is absurd.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno View Post
All due respect -- with this kind of approach how would you have expected to keep any clients, regardless of the rate?
John,
I couldn't agree with you more. There is so much talk of a move back to "the way it used to be" on this board, it makes me sick. And most of it is by people who were never there to begin with. I just mixed a double album on Saturday, almost 2 hours of music, in 8 1/2 hours. OK, it was jazz, but not small group - drums, bass, piano, french horn, trombone, trumpet, tenor, 2 alto's, and bari sax, string quartet and two vocalists. The reason I could do that is that I started mixing when I was recording. That's the way I do everything. That's the way I always did everything because I started engineering way before I had automation. When I start mixing I have a pretty good idea of how I want it to sound. Levels, EQ (if I need it), panning and reverbs. I can go from there. When I mixed the 18th song of the day on Saturday, if I didn't get something right, I can recall it the next day and make it right. That is the glory of non-analog mixing.

You can hear it hear a sample of it here and tell me how much it sucks.

BTW I have no problem getting $90 an hour out here in the mountains of Pennsylvania. But I've been out here doing it for 26 years and I'm obviously tired and cranky tonight!
Old 4th September 2007
  #98
Here for the gear
 

Most freelance guys in nashville are getting at least $60 an hour NOT including a room. Damn, my 2nd engineers get $25 an hour.
Old 4th September 2007
  #99
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Chris's Avatar
I'm small pickings.

I charge $100 a day for tracking (usually ends up being 10-14 hour days) and then $30-40 a song for mixing. I hardly ever do hourly but when I do it's $15-18/hour.
Old 4th September 2007
  #100
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FossilTooth's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpnst View Post
Damn, my 2nd engineers get $25 an hour.
I'm surprised to hear it.

Don't get me wrong. $25/hr is easily a fair rate for an assistant, when you consider how much of the legwork they actually do in a real studio. That's great, but I'm surprised to hear the market will bear it in this day and age, outside of a few of the biggest studios.

I don't think I know any seconds who make that much out here. I didn't make that much when I assisted at an NYC studio with a card rate of $175/hr. I know several very good NYC engineers who make around that rate, and a few great ones who don't even make double that. But, perhaps I just run in different circles. You don't do a lot of independent music production do you?

I don't want to sidetrack the thread (again), but am I alone in thinking that $25/hr seems atypical for a second engineer?
Old 4th September 2007
  #101
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taturana's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy79 View Post
And two steps from a pro tools vs. everything else "discussion".
btw which one is the best preamp?
Old 4th September 2007
  #102
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FossilTooth View Post
You don't do a lot of independent music production do you?
You are right most everything I do has a label or a publishing company behind it. Engineers here tend to be tight knit and don't like to under cut each other.
Old 4th September 2007
  #103
.

i'm thinking of hiring allen collins

for some humanitarian global consciousness love ballad recordings...


i just want to make sure my clients are really comfortable, you know?


what do y'all think? .....good idea??


.
Old 4th September 2007
  #104
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

whoa, go easy on me friends, that part of my post about the glory of analog/itb sucks was was a little tongue-in-cheek response to this:


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Don't worry, there is still time for us to turn this into and ITB vs OTB debate.
Which is only one step away from a Mac vs. PC "discussion."
And two steps from a pro tools vs. everything else "discussion".

apparently i need to work on my subtle humor skills.


Quote:
Originally Posted by paterno View Post
All due respect -- with this kind of approach how would you have expected to keep any clients, regardless of the rate?

it's a fair question, no disrespect taken. a year ago my (cocky) response would be "results", they got mixes from me they couldn't get elsewhere at anything near my rate; not that my mixes are better, they're just different than what most people do these days, darker, a little left of center, lots of analog saturations and distortions, not striving for radio or clean/clear. but the truth is keeping clients was not a priority for me, i had a slow but continual stream of people come to me for small mixing projects (i don't like albums, prefer songs and EP's) and liked that groove.

if i had been looking to build relationships and a long term, full time career with repeat business, i certainly would have taken a different tack and been more interpersonal. as it was, i preferred to pick and choose what interested me and keep it short and sweet.

in hindsight, i believe the lack of human interaction is part of what burned me out on the process. something happened in the past year, i ditched the eccentric hermit garb and realized i like meeting and working with people.

all part of growing up, i suspect.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 4th September 2007
  #105
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Wow ubk, if what you write is true...

it's one of the most honest, heartfelt post i've ever read on GS.
Old 4th September 2007
  #106
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picksail's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
something happened in the past year, i ditched the eccentric hermit garb and realized i like meeting and working with people.
We're all happy that you did.
Old 4th September 2007
  #107
Lives for gear
 
allencollins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye View Post
.

i'm thinking of hiring allen collins

for some humanitarian global consciousness love ballad recordings...


i just want to make sure my clients are really comfortable, you know?


what do y'all think? .....good idea??


.

he he... I'm actually working on a ballad as we speak. I'll post it later
you won't believe what a softy I really am.........

Not trying to be defensive but I originally replied to this thread
stating that you could never charge $80 in Boston and expect to do well
in the Pro-Fools, oops I mean ProTools era.

Then it turned into well LA has a higher cost of living than Boston. We all know now that Boston and LA have similar cost of living. There is no argument. Sure cheaper areas like Jamaica Plain Roxbury and Dorchester are less expensive as is Compton, Watt's sections. Im talking about Downtown, Backbay/The Fens
Brookline etc... They are very expensive. a 2 bedroom condo is 1 mil. anyhoo

So in good faith I accept your apologies for everyone jumping down my throat!!!

stay tuned for my ballad. It is the first track Ive used my new patented vocal doubling technique............ a vst plugin will be coming soon
Old 4th September 2007
  #108
Like a lot of folks, I started my studio for the sole reason of producing my own projects and doing session work. After putting something like 200 grand into it, not getting much out of it, and folks continually asking to do projects, I decided to “open to the public” a little over 2 years ago.

I’ve been recording for something like 20 years, and although I learn tons of new stuff daily (and would consider myself a neophyte compared to the professional engineers / producers that have been in this business for 30+ years), apparently I get a pretty decent sound. Decent enough to book me far into next year on word-of-mouth alone (I’m actually turning more stuff away then I’m accepting at the moment, but this isn’t my primary gig, so I don’t mind giving other studios the work at all).

I started at around $30 hour, but am now at $50. I’m in Maryland, and folks don’t think it’s an unreasonable figure. I think my clients realize that I am a musician first and an engineer second, and that I’m trying to put as much passion into the “instrument” of recording as I do any other instruments that I play. It’s all about the art of it for me, and I think people appreciate the fact that I’m not just in it for the dough (not that there’s anything wrong with the business of making money).


Heh, well, I think people also know how much I just dig the technology and gear.

Not to hijack, but I’d be interested in knowing how many folks with studios do the recording bit as a an adjunct to getting more session work. I’d say at least 50% of the studio work I get is due to folks needing my playing services, and once they get into the studio and hear the stuff, they transfer their projects over to me.

Last edited by Deadmeat; 4th September 2007 at 06:55 PM.. Reason: added some junk
Old 5th September 2007
  #109
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye View Post
.

i'm thinking of hiring allen collins

for some humanitarian global consciousness love ballad recordings...


i just want to make sure my clients are really comfortable, you know?


what do y'all think? .....good idea??


.
Id like to hear it

you might have to charge them a lower rate though to keep them comfortable hehheh


Old 5th September 2007
  #110
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
One of the reasons I charge what I charge is so clients can have the freedom to make changes.
As long as the changes are within reason, I prefer the clients make it the way the want it. That way when they walk away, they feel like it was just the way the wanted it.

I recently finished a mix for a client and the client decided they wanted 3 beats taken out of the intro, how do you all deal with that if your automation is on an analog console?
Im with ya, When im hired to mix at a Pr song rate i dont really put a time limit on it, after i deliver a reference they can make changes while the mix is still up on the desk, that way i can get it the way they want it and spend as much time as i need to get it right.

After the mix is approved and taken off the desk, a recall is billed as another mix


If the band is mixing it the rate is by the hour and the same rate will apply for recalls


As for taking out 3 beats at the intro thats easy, if its still up on the desk

if not... i might just remix the intro and edit it to the top of the song



.
Old 5th September 2007
  #111
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
he he... I'm actually working on a ballad as we speak. I'll post it later
you won't believe what a softy I really am.........



.
Old 5th September 2007
  #112
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Empire Prod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep View Post



.
LOL!heh
Old 5th September 2007
  #113
Gear Maniac
 

I've been recording out of my computer room for the past number of years, but I'm in the process of getting a mid-level studio going with a friend of mine and another engineer(along with a photographer and a cartoonist/director). Since I'm pretty damn new, I'm shooting for $35/hour or $300/day(10-12 hours). For mixing, I want an additional $100 flat rate per song with 2 revisions for free and then an hourly rate for any revisions beyond that(undecided on that). For anything I didn't record, I'm shooting for $150 a song. Not much, but I'm a young kid, new to the scene, and would be content with the prices like that. I'll raise them when they need to be raised.

Is that unreasonable at all? I don't have the best of gear, but I'm working towards it. If I get enough business, I'll probably shoot for a loan and get some key pieces.

Just moved into the building 2-3 months ago, so it's all still very new to me. We'll be building up our studio over the next month or so. Hopefully I can get some mix projects to hold me over. I might have an EP and a full-length coming in.
Old 5th September 2007
  #114
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by i51423 View Post
I've been recording out of my computer room for the past number of years, but I'm in the process of getting a mid-level studio going with a friend of mine and another engineer(along with a photographer and a cartoonist/director). Since I'm pretty damn new, I'm shooting for $35/hour or $300/day(10-12 hours). For mixing, I want an additional $100 flat rate per song with 2 revisions for free and then an hourly rate for any revisions beyond that(undecided on that). For anything I didn't record, I'm shooting for $150 a song. Not much, but I'm a young kid, new to the scene, and would be content with the prices like that. I'll raise them when they need to be raised.

Is that unreasonable at all? I don't have the best of gear, but I'm working towards it. If I get enough business, I'll probably shoot for a loan and get some key pieces.
Best advice I could give you. Do not take on debt if at all possible. Save up some money and grow your equipment list when you have earned the money to pay for it. The music business is way too up and down to have debt payments hanging over your head. I know way to many young guys that have been clobbered because they had a dry spell and could not keep up with their overhead.
Old 8th September 2007
  #115
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Do not take on debt if at all possible.

OP, if you listen to nothing else, listen to that.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 8th September 2007
  #116
Lives for gear
 
poncival's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by allencollins View Post
" That's not me in the photo
it's Max from Soulfly.
Max is easily my favorite musician I have ever worked with

$100/hr
Old 8th September 2007
  #117
Lives for gear
 
stagefright13's Avatar
 

I charge 45 bucks per hour. But I frequently charge by the job. And encourage people to do it that way. It leaves the pressure off the people and they perform better. No sense in forcing people into A time limit.
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