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"Mixing with your mind" - YOUR thoughts? Condenser Microphones
Old 28th August 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
I often think about buying that book. Bottom line for me is ....for those of you who bought it...do you feel like you got $100 worth of SOMETHING from it that has been useful in conjunction with the skills you already have?
I guess it really depends on what your level is and how you like to learn things. There was one thing that he said, I think in reference to EQ or compression, that kind of summed up for me what I plan on getting out of this book: "confusion is replaced by clarity of thought." It's probably just my ADD, but when confronted with a brand new mixing project with 20 or 30 tracks, I want to be methodical and organized from the get-go, and get rid of as much confusion as possible. Then, when you actually start getting into the fun part of mixing you can just go for it, because all the tedious stuff has already been taken care of. If that's something you can benefit from then you should probably get it. There's some really great tips in there, too.

It's not for the camp that don't like to read, though, I suppose.
Old 28th August 2007
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

I bought it last year & re-read it regularly. In my opinion it was very well worth the purchase price.
Old 28th August 2007
  #33
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soft mic = when recording dudes



hard mic = when recording hot chicks





that's what he meant right?
Old 28th August 2007
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hle144 View Post
Wanna read a book, go to the library, here at the studio we read music not liteature.
Pretty few people are reading liteature I guess.

BTW, Mike Stavrou has some pretty extensive credits: The Pretenders (He mixed 'Brass in Pocket'), Cat Stevens, classical guitarist John Williams among them.

The most important lesson in 'Mixing in your mind' is that in making recordings we're dealing with illusions. That's where the 'mind' part comes from I guess.
Old 29th August 2007
  #35
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Very cool book, I enjoyed it. So what about at the very end when he's talking about the hit song formula? I don't remember the exact specifics, but apparently he says something along the lines that he cracked the code to what every single hit song has in common? I'll have to go back and look at that again, it struck me as odd.
Old 29th August 2007
  #36
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This book is one of those things you wish other people wouldn't buy so that you would be the only one to own it. So, yeah, I agree with the guy earlier in the thread, DON'T BUY THIS BOOK, DON'T READ, STICK YOUR HEAD UP YOUR ASS, AND KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
Old 30th August 2007
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
standard BBC training, no more, no less


utter bollocks - have you actually heard his work? If you honestly think his 'experience' translates into listening pleasure you have cloth ears

however, he is the comic's only saving grace, but that doesn't change the fact that PW is a clueless hack

ha! cloth ears? Maybe. heh. Have no opinion of PW - but BBC training (and in fact it was Hugh who DID the training, he was no trainee!) at the time Hugh was there was the best in the world. Light years ahead of ANYTHING. Not so much now - the BBC is pretty much living on past glories. Im no Hugh kiss as, but i'm also no slagging off SOB. No point. Positive attitude is everything! Martin Walker and Hugh are both well respected - as is Yestin (cant spell that name for the life of me).

Anyway - i digress. Hugh's classical work does indeed sound very good. Im just glad my cloth ears have allowed me to work on the projects I have .....
Old 30th August 2007
  #38
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BBC training is not anything to get excited about.
Old 30th August 2007
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilE View Post
BBC training is not anything to get excited about.
experience or conjecture?

My opinion comes from experience and a lot of product.

The Maida Vale crew - unarguably the BEST live act recording team in the world. The same bunch thats been there for 30 years. Enough awards of excellence from all over the world to fill the Bolean library. The live broadcast crew, excellent standards - witness the broadcast of the UK Proms. Immense task. All BBC - all old school, sure - but BBC none the less. Heck, i'm no BBC lover. They're a beaurocratic P.I.A who I have to deal with all the time. But the level of technical excellence available is top rate - even today, although as rightly stated - some of the training budgest have slipped well down........
Old 30th August 2007
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Have no opinion of PW
so why jump in with your size 20's? It was him that was getting referred to originaly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
and in fact it was Hugh who DID the training
Yes, I know that - teachers teach....and all that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Light years ahead of ANYTHING
That would depend on what you mean by 'ANYTHING' - the top freelance guys I've worked alongside in the classical world have never been near dear old auntie in their lives. I can count the number of ex-beeb of top rate standard who are now freelance on two fingers

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Im no Hugh kiss as
err???

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Martin Walker and Hugh are both well respected
where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Hugh's classical work does indeed sound very good
that would depend on your metric

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
The Maida Vale crew - unarguably the BEST live act recording team in the world
Oh please, spare us the hyperbole. Yes they are good, no-one would dispute that, but they are not that good, no-one is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Heck, i'm no BBC lover
Old 30th August 2007
  #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
I often think about buying that book. Bottom line for me is ....for those of you who bought it...do you feel like you got $100 worth of SOMETHING from it that has been useful in conjunction with the skills you already have?
Yes, definitely.

Last edited by rwhitney; 30th August 2007 at 09:12 PM.. Reason: can't spell
Old 30th August 2007
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowStorm View Post
Soon I have read the book. What are your thoughts about this book?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowStorm View Post
I would choose the SOS issues any day, because I have more content for the money in those magazines.

Perhaps it would be an idea to consider 'Mixing with your mind' as a NON entry level book. I have browsed the content and instantly recognised that it would be a more useful book to read with a healthy level of technique and experience.

You seem to value amount of content or should I say 'quantity' over 'quality' which leads me to think you are somewhat missing the point of the book.

After mixing for a while, people can get into habits and can come to rely on standard techniques, thereby becoming stale and stagnant. Taking a different approach can be a healthy and refreshing move forward and that direction may be more of a psychological one.

Mixing with your mind shows the engineer an alternative perspective that can in some cases liberate the mixer from rigid and repetitive practice. It is in the world of the the unfettered imagination that real magic can occur.

It is not an 'only' solution book it is one of many that offers a way to approach mixing that is not the traditional well worn one that many start out from.
Old 30th August 2007
  #43
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doorknocker's Avatar
It's a great book but the best $ 100 I've ever spent was for 'Recording The Beatles', an incredibly well researched and beautifully realized book.
Old 30th August 2007
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
so, you'd pic a comic that is edited by a complete amateur over a book written by a first rate pro?

Sensible choice indeed

anyway, as already stated, search first
Are you might be missing the point of the magazine?

It seems to be of use to quite a lot of people at entry level and intermediate also.

Obviously it is a 'comic' to you because you must be at the Zenith or up there in the dizzying heights of the rareified 'Pro' audio mountain. Oh that others could acclimatize to breath the oxygen you do!

Your disdain betrays the arrogance that so phukks me off about the attitude you express.

You've got 'Pro Audio review' 'Pro Sound News' 'Pro's are us' and Pro's Only - No Amateurs allowed' and other authentic bona fide Pro titles to read and enjoy up there on you mountain.

I must get on to th editorial of SOS and ask them to get some 'First rate' pro's on board to properly staff the magazine to cater more to the Edmund Hillary's of the audio world.

Pity there no emoticon for Pro W*nker....
Old 31st August 2007
  #45
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PhilE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
experience or conjecture?

My opinion comes from experience and a lot of product.

The Maida Vale crew - unarguably the BEST live act recording team in the world. The same bunch thats been there for 30 years. Enough awards of excellence from all over the world to fill the Bolean library. The live broadcast crew, excellent standards - witness the broadcast of the UK Proms. Immense task. All BBC - all old school, sure - but BBC none the less. Heck, i'm no BBC lover. They're a beaurocratic P.I.A who I have to deal with all the time. But the level of technical excellence available is top rate - even today, although as rightly stated - some of the training budgest have slipped well down........
Experience tells me that BBC training is nothing to get excited about.
It is true that there are great guys at the beeb but there are some jokes out there with the 'BBC training' too.... sticklers for method but cloth ears.heh

So hard to say what I mean without seeming like a pri*k... I mean just being BBC trained is no guarantee of anything- like any training... not singling BBC out other than because it was mentioned. Yes the top guys there are very good- they are the top guys though, not everyone who did the BBC training.


No offense to anyone BBC trained- mixed with good natural senses it can be a good thing just like any training.
Old 31st August 2007
  #46
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PhilE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Perhaps it would be an idea to consider 'Mixing with your mind' as a NON entry level book. I have browsed the content and instantly recognised that it would be a more useful book to read with a healthy level of technique and experience.

You seem to value amount of content or should I say 'quantity' over 'quality' which leads me to think you are somewhat missing the point of the book.

After mixing for a while, people can get into habits and can come to rely on standard techniques, therby becoming stale and stagnant. Taking a different approach can be a healthy and refreshing move forward and that direction may be more of a psychological one.

Mixing with your mind shows the engineer an alternative perspective that can in some cases liberate the mixer from rigid and repetitive practice. It is in the world of the the unfettered imagination that real magic can occur.

It is not an 'only' solution book it is one of many that offers a way to approach mixing that is not the traditional well worn one that many start out from.
Too true- I found little use for the actual examples he gave but it is good for shaking you out of laziness and relying on formulaic working (my pet hate... and so easy to slip into at times!)
Old 31st August 2007
  #47
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ssaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Are you might be missing the point of the magazine?
Now, I realise from your appalling grammar and your erratic, childlike prose that you are as thick as **** in the neck of a bottle, but that won't deter me from answering your question.

No, I understand exactly the 'point' of the magazine

and

you assume too much

but that's to be expected...
Old 31st August 2007
  #48
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chrispick's Avatar
 

Have you guys tried mixing out your asses? I could write that book.

Email me for pre-sales.
Old 31st August 2007
  #49
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ssaudio's Avatar
 

yes

I'll be sure to call
Old 31st August 2007
  #50
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
Now, I realise from your appalling grammar and your erratic, childlike prose that you are as thick as **** in the neck of a bottle, but that won't deter me from answering your question.

No, I understand exactly the 'point' of the magazine

and

you assume too much

but that's to be expected...
Great post!

Very lucid and direct,

Thanks for the first rate professional response Mr Hillary, or should I say Mr Hilarious?

Is my spelling and grammer professional enough for you now?
Old 31st August 2007
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
I haven't read it, just skimmed through it. But I've spent some time debunking the skyskraper analogy that some friends caught on to. That is where he tries to explain that the upper bits are more important than the lower ones, which is plain wrong. A correct analogy would be a crystal clear picture of the scyscraper down to the dithering noise at the least significant bits.
Exactly right. I was reading the book (Xmas present from my wife at my request) and was quite enjoying his 'wacky' perspective on things. But as soon as the skyscraper analogy kicked in, a voice in my head got riled up and was like, "That's totally incorrect!" (24 bit) Digital is actually far more robust and usable than it was given credit for.

Don't let that put people off though - the rest of the book is very good. It's a little overpriced for the size and quantity but it stands up in the market uniquely because of the way it makes you think about things. It's much more forest than trees.
Old 31st August 2007
  #52
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I think that when you buy that book for $99 you get more than you expect for your money. Stav actually encourages readers to email him and ask questions as they read the book.

I think that you can say that this book is not technical, but that isn't really correct. Ok, there aren't loads of figures and equations all over the place, but if you compare it to the technical conversations that you have with your fellow engineers, then it seems that the book reads far more like a one on one chat than a lecture. I've been engineering music for 10 years and found that book really helpful.

There are loads of books that give you lots of theoretical detail but I find Stav's book really unique in that he is someone who obviously loves the process of capturing sound and the extremely fine control you can have over it if you put in a lot of practise. The first time I read the chapter about how he used to sit with a fellow engineer in the control room after hours taking it in turns to guess which band of the eq was reduced and by how much, it made realise what a long road there is ahead!

Tim.
Old 31st August 2007
  #53
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
yes

I'll be sure to call

yes. It's definitely something you should consider. Seeing as you're just very self righteous. Ah well - karma has a funny way of cathing up........
Old 31st August 2007
  #54
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilE View Post
Experience tells me that BBC training is nothing to get excited about.
It is true that there are great guys at the beeb but there are some jokes out there with the 'BBC training' too.... sticklers for method but cloth ears.heh

So hard to say what I mean without seeming like a pri*k... I mean just being BBC trained is no guarantee of anything- like any training... not singling BBC out other than because it was mentioned. Yes the top guys there are very good- they are the top guys though, not everyone who did the BBC training.


No offense to anyone BBC trained- mixed with good natural senses it can be a good thing just like any training.
Of course. Agreed. I'm actually just defending from a neutral standpoint against opinions from SSAudio actually - he/she/it really seems to have a bugbear about anything other than a dogmatic coverall.... ah well! More specifically I was just sticking up for Hugh R a little, I dont know him very well but he's a decent sort and pretty good at what he does. Very knowledgable and good at classical recording. SSA seems to think otherwise, fair enough. Im gonna leave this one - not worth it !!


Back on topic, I agree - its a really nice read and worth owning. Quite inspiring in many ways - even just looking at how someone else works.
Old 31st August 2007
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Is my spelling and grammer professional enough for you now?
obviously not (it's grammar BTW)

I'm much funnier than you....
Old 31st August 2007
  #56
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ssaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
yes. It's definitely something you should consider. Seeing as you're just very self righteous
That doesn't parse too well

I assume it's meant to be a cutting remark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
really seems to have a bugbear about anything other than a dogmatic coverall
other than the childish ad hominem bit, I'm at a loss to understand what that actually means. Were you so keen to spit bile that you just got a bit exited?
Old 31st August 2007
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
obviously not (it's grammar BTW)

I'm much funnier than you....
I had already accorded you the title of 'Mr Hilarious', and oh how I laugh.... at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssaudio View Post
other than the childish ad hominem bit, I'm at a loss to understand what that actually means. Were you so keen to spit bile that you just got a bit exited?

By the way it is excited NOT exited...Doh! - LOL.

But I do think it is about time you exited this thread and told some jokes elsewhere.

Still enjoying the air up there on your mountain?
Old 31st August 2007
  #58
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as long as the fans are happy...
Old 17th June 2009
  #59
Here for the gear
 

I loved his advice about miking a solo singer/guitar player doing a live performance with two figure 8 mics. I have 18 years of experience and I have never thought of that one. Also his caution about standing waves is good to think about. Alot of people think for instance that if you are close miking a guitar amp the influence of the room is not that important. It is very very important.
The hero's posting on here saying "they don't need no book learnin" are laughable fools. Of course you won't learn how to be a good mixer out of books exclusively, but if you really are just going from your gut with no understanding of the behaviour of sound or technology you might as well just randomly through up a bunch of faders and twist a bunch of knobs with ear plugs in because your results will be equally consistent.
Old 17th June 2009
  #60
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Ha ha,

Was reading through this thread as I am too interested in the book, just about to wade in following my disgust at ssaudio's comments. Then I noticed the date of the posts lol.... Still I feel the others guys pain though Some people....
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