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Best Drum Overheads Small Diaphragm Condensor mic??? Condenser Microphones
Old 24th August 2007
  #1
Lives for gear
Best Drum Overheads Small Diaphragm Condensor mic???

I am looking for a pair of the best of the best in the sdc world to get that super detailed, crystal clear, focused, hi-fi, full bodied, open yet controlled golden cymbal sound. I'm not looking for which one sounds the most like real life because who said things sound best in real life. Would you rather hear an unmiked bass drum in a studio or listen to it in a live club miked up through big PA speakers. Plus most of us are working in less than perfect rooms to begin with (even after I put in $1000 into acoustic treatment). I'd like 1 recommendation for the ultimate regardless of price and 1 in the around $500 or less each category. After doing lots and lots of research and listening to mp3 comparisons I have found these to be the best of the best.

Schoeps CMC6 MK4 $1,400
Neumann km84 $1000 (difficult to find so may not be an option)
Beyer mc 930 $500
Shure ksm 141/137 $400/$300
Shure KSM32/27 $550 (not SDC but I feel like they belong in the running)
Audio technica atm450 $225
Josephson C42 $400
Peluso CEMC6 $350
Oktava MK-012 $220

Welcome to Mantra Band Site for samples of the music I play (I play keyboards). Those recordings were done in my parents basement with noisy lights and noise from the boiler with crappy cabling, digimax lt preamps and motu converters and before I invested an additional $30,000 in pro gear and moved into my own house and had years of real recording and mixing experience and studying books on the subject. But anyway, enjoy! And let the shootout begin!
Old 24th August 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
Please guys I could really use your help with this one. I've been using shure sm81's and I'm dying to try something new. Thanks.
Old 24th August 2007
  #3
big budget B&K 4011

>500 the Josephson's are a good call
Old 24th August 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I am looking for a pair of the best of the best in the sdc world to get that super detailed, crystal clear, focused, hi-fi, full bodied, open yet controlled golden cymbal sound. I'm not looking for which one sounds the most like real life because who said things sound best in real life. Would you rather hear an unmiked bass drum in a studio or listen to it in a live club miked up through big PA speakers. Plus most of us are working in less than perfect rooms to begin with (even after I put in $1000 into acoustic treatment). I'd like 1 recommendation for the ultimate regardless of price and 1 in the around $500 or less each category. After doing lots and lots of research and listening to mp3 comparisons I have found these to be the best of the best.

Schoeps CMC6 MK4 $1,400
Neumann km84 $1000 (difficult to find so may not be an option)
Beyer mc 930 $500
Shure ksm 141/137 $400/$300
Shure KSM32/27 $550 (not SDC but I feel like they belong in the running)
Audio technica atm450 $225
Josephson C42 $400
Peluso CEMC6 $350
Oktava MK-012 $220

Welcome to Mantra Band Site for samples of the music I play (I play keyboards). Those recordings were done in my parents basement with noisy lights and noise from the boiler with crappy cabling, digimax lt preamps and motu converters and before I invested an additional $30,000 in pro gear and moved into my own house and had years of real recording and mixing experience and studying books on the subject. But anyway, enjoy! And let the shootout begin!

I have a pair of KM84s if you are interested.I think they are great for overheads I also had some Schoeps I thought were nice also. Steve 330-699-1976
Old 24th August 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
From your experience having used both neumann km84 and schoeps which would you take if you could only have one pair?
Old 24th August 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
pootkao's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuLio View Post
big budget B&K 4011

>500 the Josephson's are a good call

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

Just did a piano session with 4011's through the Grace Lunatec pre. Unbelievably realistic and spacious. Best piano sound I've gotten thus far.
Old 24th August 2007
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
From your experience having used both neumann km84 and schoeps which would you take if you could only have one pair?
That's a difficult choice. I own 3 x KM84's, 2 x KM86's and 4 x Schoeps CMC6. The Neumanns definitely have their own sound, in comparison to the Schoeps they are a bit noisier and a bit more bandwidth filtered (maybe not on paper but that's how they sound, i.e. more mid emphasized). The Schoeps have less color and more extension in the top and bottom and are more 'real' sounding than the Neumanns. I couldn't live without both.
Old 24th August 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
Is there a difference between the older B+K and the newer DPA 4011? How do they sound as drum overheads compared to the schoeps and the neumanns?
Old 24th August 2007
  #9
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pootkao's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Is there a difference between the older B+K and the newer DPA 4011? How do they sound as drum overheads compared to the schoeps and the neumanns?
I've only heard this one pair of B+K's, so I can't vouch for the DPA's -- though the grapevine has nice things to say about 'em.

They're probably the most 'detailed' of the 3 -- understandable given their classical recording heritage. If you're doing lots of rock, than they may be too clean for you and you'd probably favour the KM84's. If you're doing cleaner stuff -- pop, hip-hop, etc -- the Schoeps vs B+K thing would amount to personal taste. Both great mics. Schoeps on upright bass is a wonderful thing.
Old 24th August 2007
  #10
Lives for gear
By the way did you check out warren's site: Warren Dent - N o W h e r e R a d i o . c o m

Is it just me or does anyone else also prefer the sound of the Peluso CEMC6 to the neumann km84? The Peluso sounds cleaner and more in focus and has more of the good and less of the unwanted stuff. The neumann's may be more accurate to real life but I think this is a good example of what I am looking for from a mic.
Old 24th August 2007
  #11
Trp
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
From your experience having used both neumann km84 and schoeps which would you take if you could only have one pair?
I own a pair of KM84s but I prefer the Schoeps for OHs. Great detailed cymbal sound.
Old 24th August 2007
  #12
Gear Addict
 

akg 451 or earthworks
Old 24th August 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
It seems like it's leaning toward a battle between Schoeps CMC6 MK4 and the B+K 4011. So I'll ask the question like this. What would God choose? Also don't forget to post your pick for best under around $500 range. You input is greatly appreciated.
Old 24th August 2007
  #14
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Beardhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
From your experience having used both neumann km84 and schoeps which would you take if you could only have one pair?
I have both (the MK4 with the CMC5, however) and somehow I prefer the KM84 (have the ones with the Tuchel connector, do they all have Tuchel? Don't know). However, the MK4 are kind of surgical. Very linear and with exact pattern. Overall, I'd say they surpass the KM84 technically imho.
Claus
Old 24th August 2007
  #15
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Protools Guy's Avatar
 

+1 for the AKG 451's!
Old 24th August 2007
  #16
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Beardhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
It seems like it's leaning toward a battle between Schoeps CMC6 MK4 and the B+K 4011. So I'll ask the question like this. What would God choose? Also don't forget to post your pick for best under around $500 range. You input is greatly appreciated.
Another thing: The Schoeps are modular, another capsule's around 500,- Euros new, I think. The KM84 aren't modular. Go for the Schoeps, I'd say.

Claus
Old 24th August 2007
  #17
Gear Nut
 

microtech gefell m295's
Old 24th August 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
Beardhead did you check out warren's link:

Warren Dent - N o W h e r e R a d i o . c o m

What do you like better the peluso CEMC6's or neumann km84 on overhead's? I personally prefer the peluso's cleanliness and focus.
Old 24th August 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
dcrann are you just saying gefell 295's because you use them and like them or have you compared them side by side as overheads to the other mics in the discussion like the schoeps, B+K 4011, and neumann km84?
Old 24th August 2007
  #20
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
I really, really dig the Pelusos for overheads.
Old 24th August 2007
  #21
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Diegel, the Peluso are a good choice based on the tunes I just heard on your site and your stated needs.

War
Old 24th August 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
Why buy only an OH MIC

Buy a mic that you will love on lots of sources. For that, I think it is hard to beat in a livable price range KM84 Neumanns. Not so hard to find.

To me, it is a great classic mic that you can use on, drum oh, ac gtr, percussion, violin or cello, etc etc etc.
Old 24th August 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie View Post
Buy a mic that you will love on lots of sources. For that, I think it is hard to beat in a livable price range KM84 Neumanns. Not so hard to find.

To me, it is a great classic mic that you can use on, drum oh, ac gtr, percussion, violin or cello, etc etc etc.
I am not nearly concerned with versatility as I am specialization. Right now I am very happy with my signal chain for guitar, bass, keyboards, and vocals. Just mainly working on drums right now. I don't record many other instruments nowadays but when I get to it I will still look for specialty mics for those particular instruments.
Old 24th August 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Diegel, the Peluso are a good choice based on the tunes I just heard on your site and your stated needs.

War
Hey Warren thanks a lot for your input. Are you recommending the Pelusos because I mentioned that I prefer them to the neumann's in the clips on your site. Or are the Peluso's really your #1 pick?
Old 24th August 2007
  #25
Gear Addict
 
The Reel Thing's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I am looking for a pair of the best of the best in the sdc world to get that super detailed, crystal clear, focused, hi-fi, full bodied, open yet controlled golden cymbal sound.
If the above describes what you're looking for, I think you'd better start looking among large diaphragm condensers. Older Neumann U87s for example, with a couple of good cymbals you get the above in an instant, no EQ, no nothing, just these mics...


tom
Old 24th August 2007
  #26
Gear Addict
 
LaLaFaV's Avatar
 

Are you dead set on small diaphragm overheads?
Personally and as a drummer, I love large diaphragm mics as overheads. I don't care if they are "more colored" or "slower" to some people. My favorite that I've owned were AKG 414 TLII's. You can find them used in great condition for less than $600 each and they have 4 polar patterns. You can go hyper-cardioid if you want to tighten up the room bleed or go omni if you want an overall drum/room pickup. I've also LOVED the sound of a pair of Soundelux 251's or Tele ELAM251's that I've had over my kit before. I wish I could own those.

It's just personal taste so I understand if you like the small diaphragm sound. I've owned and I can understand why people would also like the fast transient response of something like an Earthworks TC30K on overheads, too. I'd suggest experimenting with the different types.
Old 24th August 2007
  #27
Gear Addict
 
LaLaFaV's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Thing View Post
If the above describes what you're looking for, I think you'd better start looking among large diaphragm condensers. Older Neumann U87s for example, with a couple of good cymbals you get the above in an instant, no EQ, no nothing, just these mics...


tom
EXACTLY!
We almost posted at the same time.... haha.
Old 25th August 2007
  #28
Lives for gear
well what I can say at this point is I can safely eliminate a few options like the Oktava MC012's, Audio Technica Atm450's, Beyer M930's, and even the neumann km84's (yea I know what you are thinking) because I prefer the sound of the peluso's to them all. Prefer them to the gefell's too. So in the SDC world I am left with:

Schoeps CMC 6 MK 4
B+K/DPA 4011
Peluso CEMC6
Josephson C42
Shure KSM141/137

As far as the U87 suggestion I already have a neumann TLM-103 which from side by side comparisons sound close enough so should I just get another TLM103? 414 in hypercardioid sounds interesting but from samples they sound too dark to me.
Old 25th August 2007
  #29
Gear Addict
 
LaLaFaV's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
414 in hypercardioid sounds interesting but from samples they sound too dark to me.
Even the C414B-TLII (transformerless) version with the gold grill? I know what you mean if you're talking about the 414 with the transformer and silver grill (C414B-ULS) because it sounds darker.
Old 25th August 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
No excuse me I have only heard the ULS. I have not heard the TL-II. Any samples anywhere I could hear?
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