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Best Drum Overheads Small Diaphragm Condensor mic??? Condenser Microphones
Old 25th August 2007
  #31
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I should also mention if I haven't already that I really like the sound of all these new drum instructional videos ie. john blackwell, thomas lang, tommy igoe, etc... And I believe they were all recorded with small condensors. They all have that like "studio perfect" sound that I am looking for so that is why I am leaning towards small condensors.
Old 25th August 2007
  #32
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Well it looks like the winners boil down to Schoeps vs. B+K 4011 in the high price range and Josephsons (for Rock) and Pelusos (for Jazz) in the under $500 category. Thank you everyone.
Old 25th August 2007
  #33
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keiffer's Avatar
 

I have used Josephson e22S SDCs as overheads for sometime with pleasing results.
Old 25th August 2007
  #34
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prismtheory's Avatar
 

Did anyone mention AKG 460s? If so I second them. I love those....followed by Nuemann KM84s...I love darker sounding OH mics.

Old 25th August 2007
  #35
DPA 4006 not 4006TLthumbsup
Old 25th August 2007
  #36
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666666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
...I've been using shure sm81's and I'm dying to try something new...
You might want to keep your SM81s.

I did an A/B test not too long ago on overheads with SM81s, KM-184s, Schoeps MK4 and some others. They ALL sounded and worked very well... I'd say you could not go wrong with any of theses.

I know a lot of folks here do not like the newer KM-184s, but they sounded just fine... I also know of an ultra-pro commercial studio that has recorded Dave Weckl, Dennis Chambers etc that uses KM-184s on overheads and they get incredible results.

The room itself and drums themselves are a way more important factor than the difference between an SM81, KM-184, Schoeps, etc. Yes, these mics sound a bit different from each other, but they all sound great and get the job done.

The SM81s... being less expensive mics, I did not have high hopes for them, I was actually quite surprised at the results they yielded. They actually imparted a very nice favorable "color" to the overheads... not excessive, but just enough... they seemed to add a tiny bit of "grain" to the sound, in a good way... very natural and dynamic... I almost prefered the SM81s above all just due to this factor. The KM-184s and Schoeps however probably yielded a hair more detail and extreme high frequencies... but again, I'm splitting hairs here to some degree... they'll all work just fine.

My recommendation would be to spend your time working on drum tuning, mic placement etc as opposed to trying to figure out what to replace SM81s with. Now if you had AKG C1000Ss, that would be a different story!!! hehhehheh
Old 25th August 2007
  #37
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I already found the winner and it is the Peluso's and I can get a new pair for $600. Can't beat the quality or the value. I listened to many side by side comparisons and to me the Peluso's are the clear winners over everything including original neumann km84's and other great mics. I think I will also want to get a pair of Avenson's (only $550 for a pair and we have people picking them over 4011's) for a more open sound as opposed to the focused sound of the Peluso's that get great cymbal separation. So to me the two winner are the Peluso's and the Avenson's. And yes we all know how important the room and tuning is but I have already done as much room treatment as I can and drum tuning so the next thing in the chain I wanted to work on is finding the right mic in my "as good as it can get" room.
Old 25th August 2007
  #38
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I think you're right. They're my favorites. You might also want to check out the Peluso P28 tube pencil mics. Just a bit tighter lower end than the CEMC-6. But noth are wonderful overhead choices!
Old 25th August 2007
  #39
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ssaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
that super detailed, crystal clear, focused, hi-fi, full bodied, open yet controlled golden cymbal sound
MKH40 work for me
Old 25th August 2007
  #40
Let us know how they sound in your situation.
Old 25th August 2007
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
You might want to keep your SM81s.

I did an A/B test not too long ago on overheads with SM81s, KM-184s, Schoeps MK4 and some others. They ALL sounded and worked very well... I'd say you could not go wrong with any of theses.

I know a lot of folks here do not like the newer KM-184s, but they sounded just fine... I also know of an ultra-pro commercial studio that has recorded Dave Weckl, Dennis Chambers etc that uses KM-184s on overheads and they get incredible results.

The room itself and drums themselves are a way more important factor than the difference between an SM81, KM-184, Schoeps, etc. Yes, these mics sound a bit different from each other, but they all sound great and get the job done.

The SM81s... being less expensive mics, I did not have high hopes for them, I was actually quite surprised at the results they yielded. They actually imparted a very nice favorable "color" to the overheads... not excessive, but just enough... they seemed to add a tiny bit of "grain" to the sound, in a good way... very natural and dynamic... I almost prefered the SM81s above all just due to this factor. The KM-184s and Schoeps however probably yielded a hair more detail and extreme high frequencies... but again, I'm splitting hairs here to some degree... they'll all work just fine.

My recommendation would be to spend your time working on drum tuning, mic placement etc as opposed to trying to figure out what to replace SM81s with. Now if you had AKG C1000Ss, that would be a different story!!! hehhehheh
Dave Weckl and Dennis Chambers could be recorded with a cell phone and it will still sound rockin. I've used the sm81's for several years now and they just sound cloudy, unfocused, lack body, and just sound fishy (I like them much better for acoustic guitar however). I'm listening right now to steve smith on his instructional video and he uses sm81's and he sounds great but the cymbals just sound exactly how I described. Also I noticed its not that big a deal when just listening to the drums but when mixed with other instruments I am trying to keep everything in its own space and with the SM81's the cymbals just sound too cloudy and fishy and when lots of cymabls are going on in the music you end up with a lot of cloudy mess. I want a clean cymbal sound floating in it's own space and the mic I heard that does this the best is the pelusos. Oktava's I think do a great job of it too but for an extra $80 the Peluso's are much higher quality. And by the way if you notice modern drummer 2003 Steve Smith uses SM81's while just about everyone else was recorded with ksm32's and Everyone else's kit sounds great while Smith's kit sounds good but covered up and not as clear. Then when he returns to modern drummer in 2006 you'll notice he switched over to ksm32's. I also noticed he switched over to a shure beta 56 on the snare from a 57 and it does sound better so I am definetely gonna pick up one of those soon.
Old 26th August 2007
  #42
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I have pairs of the Schoeps cmc6-mk4 and Josephson c42s and have used both as drum overheads extensively.

For roots/jazz (or anywhere you want a rich/honest tone) the schoeps are great, however....for rock/pop (or anywhere you want a more polished,slightly scooped midrange tone) the I actually prefer the josephsons as they instantly give you that with little or no EQ.

However....there aren't many other applications where I find the josephsons very useful. Too zingy for stringed instruments IMO. The mk4s on the other hand are drop dead stunning on so many sources. I can't believe I worked for so long without them.

So, having said all that...the two are very different and to state the obvious, my experience doesn't necessarily mean **** to you... get your hands on a pair of each and try them yourself...

-Z-
Old 26th August 2007
  #43
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Please guys I could really use your help with this one. I've been using shure sm81's and I'm dying to try something new. Thanks.

I was using those and switched to MXL 991s and love em.
Old 26th August 2007
  #44
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the yeti's Avatar
 

beyers all day long. i know you already eliminated them, but man, give'em a listen.
Old 26th August 2007
  #45
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The Reel Thing's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
As far as the U87 suggestion I already have a neumann TLM-103 which from side by side comparisons sound close enough
listen again.

there is no comparison betwenn a Neumann U87 (especially the older ones with Tuchel connectors) and a TLM 103.
If these two mics sound alike to you, especially on overheads, this whole discussion is redundant.

tom
Old 26th August 2007
  #46
Gear Addict
 
Sergievsky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reel Thing View Post
listen again.

there is no comparison betwenn a Neumann U87 (especially the older ones with Tuchel connectors) and a TLM 103.
If these two mics sound alike to you, especially on overheads, this whole discussion is redundant.

tom
I agree. Maybe you should get new monitors or preamps first. (no offense meant)
Old 26th August 2007
  #47
Lives for gear
My comparison between a tlm103 and a U87 was just from Lynn fuston's mic comparison cd using vocals. I noticed the the U87 was smoother from top to bottom while the tlm103 had like a tiny rise putting a little skip in the smoothness somewhere in the upper range so I haven't actually compared them as overheads. I just ordered a brent averill 312 and plan on getting an a designs pacifica for overheads next week. And I use Genelec 1031A's which I plan on upgrading to Dynaudio air 15's soon unless anyone has better suggestions along that price range.
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