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Little Labs PCP or Creative Labs MW-1???
Old 24th August 2007
  #1
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darkwater's Avatar
 

Little Labs PCP or Creative Labs MW-1???

I can't decide. I would love users to make arguements for each, if you're so inclined. The PCP looks perfect, but the MW-1 has .... new found mojo?? Don't know.

Old 24th August 2007
  #2
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crypticglobe's Avatar
MW-1!!

I have an IBP-1, and I love it. Little Labs makes great stuff. But, what the MW-1 does is almost unlimited and just AMAZING for guitar. It's an amazing DI for bass as well.

It gives you many outputs, but also tone shaping, cable length issue elimination, clean gain boost (you won't believe it when you hear it!), and more. It works amazingly for re-amping. It also will allow you to use guitar level gear (like guitar pedals) at professional line level!!

TRULY an amazing box. Again... not dissing LL... they rock... the MW-1 is just THAT good.
Old 24th August 2007
  #3
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darkwater's Avatar
 

A lot of your plus points are things that the PCP offer, as well. In fact, aside from the transformerless design, I'm not sure that it's different AT ALL. Set me straight. I'm not talking about an IBP. This is the PCP.

Thanks!
Old 25th August 2007
  #4
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
It seems that they both can do the same thing, but just have slightly different ways of getting there.

the MW-1 has a great rep, and I know first hand that the PCP is awesome (been using one for about 10 years). So I have a feeling you will be doing great either way you go. One variable might be whether or not you like something like this rack mounted or in a box sort of design. As much as my PCP gets moved around the studio, it would never cross my mind to rack mount it.
Old 25th August 2007
  #5
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Interesting. I did imagine racking it up and having the patch points on the back show up on my bay. Ronin, in what applications do you move it around? My place will be more of a one room tracking/mixing scenario, not much of a band tracking room. Still, maybe it's better to keep it free and easy to grab.
Old 25th August 2007
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
It seems that they both can do the same thing, but just have slightly different ways of getting there.

the MW-1 has a great rep, and I know first hand that the PCP is awesome (been using one for about 10 years). So I have a feeling you will be doing great either way you go. One variable might be whether or not you like something like this rack mounted or in a box sort of design. As much as my PCP gets moved around the studio, it would never cross my mind to rack mount it.
They do some of the same things yes. And I know you are talking about the PCP and not the IBP-1. I mentioned it because i own one. I have seen the PCP put through it's paces... and it's quite cool. However the MW-1 is really special.

1. It has the "redeemer" circuit built in. Go read about this on their website. You have never heard your guitar sound so good. Utterly amazing... this actually improves your tone!

2. The variable output impedence is also a tone shaper, and can do subtle but very cool things to the front end.

3. The "clean boost" is another very cool seperate device that creation labs has, that has been incorporated into the MW-1. It simply sounds fantastic as a front end boost

4. The ability to use guitar level devices (like guitar pedals) as line level effects is unique to the MW-1, and very, very useful. Have ever tried your favorite distortion pedal on snare or vocal? Or how about a guitar compressor, or chorus, or phaser for a special effect?? VERY cool.

The MW-1 is new, and it does so much, and so in many ways they are having a hard time writing the manual. So... I know at the basic glance, and descriptions that are available now it's hard to get a grasp on just how cool a piece it is... but trust me.... I am guitar snob and this is an amazing unit and what it can do for guitar tone is amazing. And that is before you take everything else it does into consideration

Oh yeah... and I forgot to mention... it's won several blind shootouts as the best sounding DI ever... and with it's clean boost... you can even go direct into the recorder with no pre if you choose. Brilliant.

Again... not dissing little labs... love their stuff... but to me... the MW-1 is really, really special.

JMTC of course.
Old 25th August 2007
  #7
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The Alamo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwater View Post
I can't decide. I would love users to make arguments for each, if you're so inclined. The PCP looks perfect, but the MW-1 has .... new found mojo?? Don't know.

'New found mojo'...you probably already know to watch out for that...?

Basically they're both DI/splitter/reamp devices. Care for the clean boost feature? Can do it with the built in one from the MW or with an external pedal...There's tons of them... X-otic, Zvex, Durham, Keeley, Hao, Cesar Diaz, ...(grasping for air) ...Dallas Rangemaster, Pavo, Roger Mayer,BSM....
They're not all the same...I know...some are cleaner, some are 'treblier', some have more gain and more bass...Make your pick...Press record...Mix...Done!

RR.
Old 25th August 2007
  #8
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alamo View Post
'New found mojo'...you probably already know to watch out for that...?

Basically they're both DI/splitter/reamp devices. Care for the clean boost feature? Can do it with the built in one from the MW or with an external pedal...There's tons of them... X-otic, Zvex, Durham, Keeley, Hao, Cesar Diaz, ...(grasping for air) ...Dallas Rangemaster, Pavo, Roger Mayer,BSM....
They're not all the same...I know...some are cleaner, some are 'treblier', some have more gain and more bass...Make your pick...Press record...Mix...Done!

RR.
I love how people that don't have experience with either unit chime in like they have good advice to give. Anyone can look at it on a website and start spouting out opinions, but in truth, these people don't know any more than the person asking the question.

Not trying to bash you Alamo... just wondering what experience you have with either unit? I think if you really knew what you were talking about you would know the the redeemer (part of the MW-1) is a very new product that does something for guitar that nothing else does. It actually improves the TONE of your guitar by allow you to adjust the impedence (or eliminate it) between your guitar and the amp! You would also know that the clean boost circuit in the MW-1 has specifications that blow the DOORs of any other similar product. I have found nothing that goes in front of a guitar amp that allows you to change the "gain" and responsiveness of the guitar more transparently (keeping the tone of the amp) than this. And I have tried just about everything known to man (and own much of it).

JMTC... of course!!
Old 25th August 2007
  #9
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The Alamo's Avatar
 

How sad so many threads end up with people feeling like they're being attacked for whatever reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
I love how people that don't have experience with either unit chime in like they have good advice to give. Anyone can look at it on a website and start spouting out opinions, but in truth, these people don't know any more than the person asking the question.
True...

(Maybe that's why I did comment...I use about 4 of those boxes on a daily basis)

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe View Post
I think if you really knew what you were talking about you would know the the redeemer (part of the MW-1) is a very new product that does something for guitar that nothing else does.
Yes...I do know...But I'm still entitled to my own opinion, regardless of specs or feature set. As far as I know, I'm not bashing any of these types of boxes...On the other side I'm not hyping any of them either, for the simple reason that I feel I can make records with most of them. And I do understand that you think product A may be far superior over product B (why not, it's your opinion). But you have to excuse me for bringing a different opinion to this forum.
I probably feel the same way about Nutella chocolate spread: I cannot believe other people not liking it like I do...My first reaction would always be that they probably never even tried it...
Old 25th August 2007
  #10
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darkwater's Avatar
 

PCP stands for" Professional (level) to Cheesy Pedal". This was designed for using pedals on your tracks for mixing. I have a couple of clean boosters already....

I guess I won't know until I can demo them side by side. The transformerless design could be the best thing about the MW-1, taking the added color out of the loop.
Old 26th August 2007
  #11
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crypticglobe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alamo View Post
How sad so many threads end up with people feeling like they're being attacked for whatever reason.



True...

(Maybe that's why I did comment...I use about 4 of those boxes on a daily basis)



Yes...I do know...But I'm still entitled to my own opinion, regardless of specs or feature set. As far as I know, I'm not bashing any of these types of boxes...On the other side I'm not hyping any of them either, for the simple reason that I feel I can make records with most of them. And I do understand that you think product A may be far superior over product B (why not, it's your opinion). But you have to excuse me for bringing a different opinion to this forum.
I probably feel the same way about Nutella chocolate spread: I cannot believe other people not liking it like I do...My first reaction would always be that they probably never even tried it...
I didn't feel attacked. I just (I thought) was trying to state that you clearly haven't used both products.

Maybe I am WAY biased because I know Michael and some of the guys at Creation Audio Labs, and I really appreciate all the work they put into this unit. I have been hearing about its journey to life for a long time now, and it's even better than I thought it was going to be.

I do know that anyone purchasing an MW-1 for any of the purposes that it's capable of would not be disappointed with it.
Old 26th August 2007
  #12
Little Labs
 
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Hmmmm I saw this thread and I am puzzled. Michael Wagener showed me the MW-1 at I think Namm and I think it's a really cool box. The MW-1 and the PCP do overlap a little and do some of the same things but they are different animals. Sometimes these vs. threads are a little off, but oh well ...who am I to say....
Old 26th August 2007
  #13
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666666's Avatar
One thing I can say...

I own and use a Little Labs PCP and it's absolutely excellent... couldn't live without it quite honestly. We split every single guitar through that box... stellar results.

Old 18th September 2007
  #14
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darkwater's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelabs View Post
Hmmmm I saw this thread and I am puzzled. Michael Wagener showed me the MW-1 at I think Namm and I think it's a really cool box. The MW-1 and the PCP do overlap a little and do some of the same things but they are different animals. Sometimes these vs. threads are a little off, but oh well ...who am I to say....
Thanks for chiming in here Mr. Little! I'd like to know what you think the overlap is, and how each box is unique. I know the MW-1 seems to be more of a guitar box, having the Redeemer circuit and clean boost available. But, the PCP has a guitar line driver... doesn't that serve the same purpose? The PCP has the mult, which the MW-1 doesn't. That is a cool feature. The MW-1 is transformerless, which might make it a more true guitar reamper with less coloration...

I'm afraid what I'm arriving at, is that I'll need both boxes eventually.
Old 18th September 2007
  #15
Little Labs
 
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Take a look closer, the PCP DI is transformerless, where it needs to be and is highly regarded. If you are splitting off to more than two amps you are asking for trouble without transformers. I don't have tone controls in the PCP, but most cats who use it have plenty to chose from. I think the MW-1 would be a good choice for amp modelers and such, but when it comes down to using multiple real amps combining between re-amp and instrument in, and also using pro gear before an amp ,or pedals as pro gear ,the PCP is a heavy hitter that has proved itself in use on many platinum records.. SOO there....
Old 18th September 2007
  #16
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darkwater's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelabs View Post
Take a look closer, the PCP DI is transformerless, where it needs to be and is highly regarded. If you are splitting off to more than two amps you are asking for trouble without transformers. I don't have tone controls in the PCP, but most cats who use it have plenty to chose from. I think the MW-1 would be a good choice for amp modelers and such, but when it comes down to using multiple real amps combining between re-amp and instrument in, and also using pro gear before an amp ,or pedals as pro gear ,the PCP is a heavy hitter that has proved itself in use on many platinum records.. SOO there....
Uh oh. ....."amp modelers and such"?? I don't know if MW will take kindly to THAT! Them may be fightin' words! I was guessing the opposite, actually, that the MW-1, having more guitar tone bells and whistles, would be the better real amper for electric guitar Now, I'm really torn. Both have a transformerless DI.... Hmmmm. May have to get both in here and hear for ourselves. Wanna help me out with a shootout, guys?

Old 18th September 2007
  #17
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darkwater's Avatar
 

Old 19th September 2007
  #18
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mwagener's Avatar
Hey guys. As you can imagine I want to stay out of this discussion here, because I am obviously biased.

I do have a LittleLabs PCP, a RedEye and a few IBPs and I love every single one of them, absolutely great gear, used it on many recordings and still do. There is nothing on this Earth that does the job of an IBP. Johnathan makes wonderful gear and he is a great friend, the last thing I need is a pissing match between him and me.

Both units are based on different technology. They have some overlapping functions and both do stuff that the other one doesn't. So check out both boxes and buy the one that fits your personal needs.
Old 19th September 2007
  #19
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Yuri Kogan's Avatar
 

If you look at the Radial JDV you get an amp splitter, a loop, a drag control (impedance match), reamp, speaker through feed.... for alot less $$.
What would MW-1 provide that hte JDV wouldnt? I never had any experience with that unit (but do have a JDVx3) and am just curious

Yuri
Old 19th September 2007
  #20
Little Labs
 
littlelabs's Avatar
 

Thanks Michael,
The boxes are different, and as I said before sometimes these vs. threads are just off and it seems the tone is juvenile, like they really want a pissing match, and yeah sometimes I get suckered in. I suggest to engineers, when you are interested in a piece of gear, investigate, demo and make your mind up. Being evangelical about gear is great, but wait until you actually have used it everyday, before being some kind of authority on it. Keep up the great work Michael and if I don't see you at AES, I'll see you at NAMM.
all the best
Jonathan
ps
Is the move all done?
Old 19th September 2007
  #21
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlelabs View Post
Thanks Michael,
The boxes are different, and as I said before sometimes these vs. threads are just off and it seems the tone is juvenile, like they really want a pissing match, and yeah sometimes I get suckered in. I suggest to engineers, when you are interested in a piece of gear, investigate, demo and make your mind up. Being evangelical about gear is great, but wait until you actually have used it everyday, before being some kind of authority on it. Keep up the great work Michael and if I don't see you at AES, I'll see you at NAMM.
all the best
Jonathan
ps
Is the move all done?


I'm totally with you. Forums like this are absolutely great to get information and learn about recording, but when it comes to spending money on gear, people should "listen" at their own studio and not rely on the opinion of another person, it might be completely wrong for them. There are stores, like Mercenary and some others, that will let you try gear at your own place and make a decision based on that test. Heck, Fletcher sent me $40,000 worth of compressors, just so I could find the one that fit my personal needs. Short of that, go rent the box that you're looking at, a small price to pay in order to get exactly what you want.

There are times when I decide on a piece of gear which I had never thought of buying before I did a test with it, and other times where I buy gear that other people absolutely hated, but it works great for me. Sometimes an engineers long time experience with a piece of gear can at least send you in the right direction, but it's always better to listen for yourself.

I'll definitely see you at AES (and NAMM)
Old 19th September 2007
  #22
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Hmmm. It was not my intention to start any "pissing match", nor to be "juvenille in tone." Sorry if that came across. Ok, I'm mildly insulted. Let's remember who said "amp modelers", 'cos it weren't me! IMO, that's where the pissing started, and stopped. I made a joke about that being "fightin' words"...my mistake, I suppose..., but it seemed like a veiled insult. The title of the thread does NOT CONTAIN "VS."! I only asked to hear from users on both units... that's all.

The MW1 is a new product that had a long wait, and it did not occur to me that I would be able to rent one in LA already. Nor do I expect C.A.L. to send me one just to check out, but since this is MW's suggestion, perhaps I should ask them. RCM has offered to lend me his almighty PCP, so I've got THAT goin' for me...
Old 19th September 2007
  #23
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Jeff A. Roberts's Avatar
 

As this thread demonstrates, both Micheal and Jonathan have a lot of class.

I am very pleased to know both of them.

The recording and pro audio scenes are both richer because of them.

Pick the piece that is most useful to you.
Old 19th September 2007
  #24
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darkwater's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff A. Roberts View Post
As this thread demonstrates, both Micheal and Jonathan have a lot of class.

I am very pleased to know both of them.

The recording and pro audio scenes are both richer because of them.

Pick the piece that is most useful to you.
Agreed. I salute both.
Old 19th September 2007
  #25
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwater View Post
Hmmm. It was not my intention to start any "pissing match", nor to be "juvenille in tone." Sorry if that came across. Ok, I'm mildly insulted. Let's remember who said "amp modelers", 'cos it weren't me! IMO, that's where the pissing started, and stopped. I made a joke about that being "fightin' words"...my mistake, I suppose..., but it seemed like a veiled insult. The title of the thread does NOT CONTAIN "VS."! I only asked to hear from users on both units... that's all.

The MW1 is a new product that had a long wait, and it did not occur to me that I would be able to rent one in LA already. Nor do I expect C.A.L. to send me one just to check out, but since this is MW's suggestion, perhaps I should ask them. RCM has offered to lend me his almighty PCP, so I've got THAT goin' for me...

dejected darkwater
Hey darkwater

no problem here, if you could see our faces while reading our posts you would see us both smile, it's all good
Old 19th September 2007
  #26
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darkwater's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener View Post
Hey darkwater

no problem here, if you could see our faces while reading our posts you would see us both smile, it's all good
heh
Old 19th September 2007
  #27
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pigpen's Avatar
 

Not to throw in another option for ya....but I love the Radial JD7....loads of options there and 7 outs!
Best of luck!thumbsup
Old 23rd September 2007
  #28
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darkwater's Avatar
 

MW-1 en route!
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