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Which Drum Overhead mics for ultra clean clear detailed image? Condenser Microphones
Old 25th August 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorGlory View Post
My experience is that LDCs don't pic up room sound any more than SDCs do. The 3035s are more "focused" than a lot of SDCs.

If you don't want room sound at all, you're looking at close micing each individual cymbal. Try ribbons for that.
My Neumann TLM 103 is a large diaphragm condensor and is extremly sensitive and picks up so much room sound so I don't know if that is typical of large condensor or is just an extreme case. Anyone have sound clips of that audio technica 3035? They do look very interesting. Again I think the sound I'm going for is the sound they have on a lot of the new drum instruction videos ie. john blackwell, thomas lang, tommy igoe, etc... And I believe they are all done with sdc's.
Old 25th August 2007
  #32
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Gobos are large moving baffles made for absorbing sound... usually on wheels or something. Having one on each side of the set will focus your drum sound a lot.
Old 25th August 2007
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red View Post
Gobos are large moving baffles made for absorbing sound... usually on wheels or something. Having one on each side of the set will focus your drum sound a lot.
Thanks. Can you recommend which company I should get this from. I found this: Isolation Enclosures - Clear-Sonic Panels Sorber and more options with prices here: Clearsonic Drum Isolation Booths - Iso Pack, Isolation Panels

and these: auralex max wall - Google Product Search
Old 1st September 2007
  #34
Gear Addict
 

Do yourself a BIG favour and try the Royer SF-12 stereo mic...

The most awesome thing I've ever tried on OHs... More open and a lot better transient response than any LDC... Just a tad Pultec on the highs and it works perfect every time: and setting up/moving around is soooo much easier than two mics. It can also be either M/S or coincident pair...

M
Old 1st September 2007
  #35
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Regardless of price....

Brauner VM1's.

Stunning as super hi fi overheads.

The only thing I would say is that the fig8 pattern is insanely bright which makes them a no for middle and side.

I think the KM84's would be a nice buy if you could find a pair.

I know you want really detailed and hifi so a ribbon wouldn't seem like the obvious choice but I dont think you should rule out a really good pair of ribbons with some nice eq. They do have a sort of smooth detail that you cant get any other way.

J
Old 1st September 2007
  #36
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adamcal's Avatar
 

looks like you really want KM84's, this will always be in the back of your mind no matter what you end up buying, and will nag at you for years as you buy this, buy that, until one day you eventually bite the bullet and get the nuemanns you always wanted.

save yourself the hastle, save up, search, wait till you find what you really want, they will be expensive but ultra usable on not only overheads but many other places as well, and will always hold their value if not increase.

life is too short, get what you want.

Last edited by adamcal; 1st September 2007 at 01:34 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 1st September 2007
  #37
Gear Maniac
I have and really like the 137s. I did have access to a pair of original KM84s and they were a little more 'relaxed' than the 137s which are maybe a bit glassier and more forward. Don't have any experience with the others, but I can at least add a bit on that specific comparison. The Shures are a little more 'immediate' real where the Neumanns may have been a little more 'space' real.

Best,

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
Nutra I am not sure which one would be your top pick out of the one's you mentioned could you be more specific. After listening to those Avenson's a few more times as great as they sound I think they sound too big and open and I think I am looking for a more isolated dryer focused sound which I think small condensors are best at. So again I think my main choices still remain:

beyer mc 930 $500
shure ksm 141/137 $400/$300
Shure KSM32/27 $550/$300
audio technica atm450 $225
Josephson C42 $400
maybe Peluso CEMC6 $350
Old 1st September 2007
  #38
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
I sure would like one of those clearsonic isopack As.
Old 1st September 2007
  #39
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I've 84s and 451s but recently used Rode nt2000 at a live mix and was very impressed at how "pro" the cymbals sounded.
They are in a similar ball park to 87s; with continuously variable pattern control they could be worth a look.
Cheers, Ross
Old 2nd September 2007
  #40
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samwinston123's Avatar
 

Here are some samples for you good sir:

Neuman KM84s: XY about 7 feet off the floor, over the center of the kit. Going through API 512c's.

Neuman U87s: Same setup as above, same room, same pres, but going to 2".

Oktava MK012s: This was done in a different room from the other two. It's part of a low budget project I just finished for some friends, so it went through my DBX 386 pre, into a 002r. Mics were positioned the same as above.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #41
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I use the Josephson C42's in that application (from your definition of what you are after). I would definitely give them a listen.
Best to you
Old 2nd September 2007
  #42
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

your insistence that the mics isolate the kit from the room has me thinking that you'd be a lot better off treating your room than buying new mics. with $300 you can get a LOT of 703 panels, wrap 'em in some sheets or curtains from the thrift store, and turn your room into something you *want* to have included in the recording.

truly, if you're looking for that 'clean studio sound' you have to have a clean sounding room. drums more than any other instrument are going to activate the space, warts and all, at all frequencies; some mics will catch more and some will catch less, but all mics will catch a lot of room, especially if the mic is more than a foot from the source.

so ditch the auralex and put up as many 703 panels as you can afford to buy/make. that way you can stick up a pair of just about any mic in just about any location and have a great sounding track. life is too long to live it any other way.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #43
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seaneldon's Avatar
 

listen to the above post, but forget about "buying" panels. make them. $300 will get you a handful of premade jaunts, where as you can make a ROOM full of them for the same dough and some genuine self-done labor.

from there:

since when are KM84s hard to get? they made about a hundred jillion of them and a bunch of people that have them would probably accept a reasonable offer because they know they can get an almost identical KM84 whenever they want for exactly what they sold them for, if not cheaper. Of course...lots of KM84's are in very poor condition...

further:

everyone's perception of "clean", "clear", "detailed", and "image" is different. if you live in my head and you want all four of those words in one microphone, i'd point you at a josephson c617 with a gefell mk221 capsule and a martech mss10 pre. definitely a sleeper microphone (and more, a sleeper pre). if you want stereo drum overheads, you'll of course need two of them.

you could get the same four adjectives with a completely different sound out of the metal diaphragm gefell mics. M295 is your cardioid, M296 is your omni.

skipping into large diaphragm land, the brauner microphones handle drum overhead duties in a somewhat stunning fashion. universally "hi-fi", as someone else has mentioned. while each model is indeed different, they've all got the same general "woah" sound. i remember my first time putting a KHE up as a mono overhead, and i'll remember it forever. telefunken m16s and ak47s or a mixture of the two will throw down as well. definitely a bit more "color" (whatever that means) in the mid and high frequencies than the brauners, but whatever....
Old 2nd September 2007
  #44
Gear Addict
 

Love my earthworks tc 30's
Old 2nd September 2007
  #45
Gear Addict
 

I don't really think there's a magic bullet mic that is going to be perfect all the time. The player and the room are the biggest part of focusing the sound of a kit. My house kit/cymbals mic'd the same way I've done it plenty of times sounds killer with one player and like ass with another. Mostly it comes down to how they hit the brass. I just finished a record where the drummer had a tendency to mumble across the toms and just wail on the brass. Drove me crazy.

My point: it was the same mic that has sounded great with talent in front of it. Get something honest and by all means try to put it to use with someone who will do a good job. Nothing sounds better or is more forgiving than a great performance.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #46
Gear Addict
 
BenJah's Avatar
 

Plus 1 for the Avenson STO-2's. I think the sound your after might be most easily accomplished with nice ribbon mics though
Old 2nd September 2007
  #47
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
your insistence that the mics isolate the kit from the room has me thinking that you'd be a lot better off treating your room than buying new mics. with $300 you can get a LOT of 703 panels, wrap 'em in some sheets or curtains from the thrift store, and turn your room into something you *want* to have included in the recording.

truly, if you're looking for that 'clean studio sound' you have to have a clean sounding room. drums more than any other instrument are going to activate the space, warts and all, at all frequencies; some mics will catch more and some will catch less, but all mics will catch a lot of room, especially if the mic is more than a foot from the source.

so ditch the auralex and put up as many 703 panels as you can afford to buy/make. that way you can stick up a pair of just about any mic in just about any location and have a great sounding track. life is too long to live it any other way.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Time is money so I think I'd rather just buy them and I can sell all my auralex stuff on ebay for a few hundred. Where is the best/cheapest place to buy these? Also I saw a site saying that 705 panels are better for bass absorption. My room is kind of Dark/Bassy sounding. Also what would you recommend for diffusors? I have 6 auralex T'fusors. Should I get more or are there better options? Or would I not need diffuosrs if I get the panels?
Old 2nd September 2007
  #48
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

705 is way better for bass, it's the same as 703 but it's 4" thick instead of 2". your room is dark/bassy because your current scheme is absorbing all the high's and none of the bass, what you need to do is absorb all of the excess bass and tame/scatter the highs.

load up your corners with 705, floor to ceiling. hang a cloud of 705 over the kit to make the ceiling disappear. then space as many 703 panels as you can afford over all the walls, covering at least 10% and up to 50% of the surface area.

you do that, and your recordings and mixing experience will make you want to cry for all the energy wasted in the past fighting the laws of acoustics rather than befriending them.

i go to brooklyn for all my 703/705 needs. get the faced panels.

J&S Supply Corp, Distributors Of Roofing Materials and Fiberglass Insulation Products - New York City Metropolitan area , New Jersey, Connecticut

enjoy!


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 2nd September 2007
  #49
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post
705 is way better for bass, it's the same as 703 but it's 4" thick instead of 2". your room is dark/bassy because your current scheme is absorbing all the high's and none of the bass, what you need to do is absorb all of the excess bass and tame/scatter the highs.

load up your corners with 705, floor to ceiling. hang a cloud of 705 over the kit to make the ceiling disappear. then space as many 703 panels as you can afford over all the walls, covering at least 10% and up to 50% of the surface area.

you do that, and your recordings and mixing experience will make you want to cry for all the energy wasted in the past fighting the laws of acoustics rather than befriending them.

i go to brooklyn for all my 703/705 needs. get the faced panels.

J&S Supply Corp, Distributors Of Roofing Materials and Fiberglass Insulation Products - New York City Metropolitan area , New Jersey, Connecticut

enjoy!


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Awesome. Sounds like great advice. Can't wait to try it. Thanks!
Old 18th April 2009
  #50
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majellin's Avatar
 

PZM's really work well.
Old 18th April 2009
  #51
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TC Custom Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starfighter View Post
Do yourself a BIG favour and try the Royer SF-12 stereo mic...

The most awesome thing I've ever tried on OHs... More open and a lot better transient response than any LDC... Just a tad Pultec on the highs and it works perfect every time: and setting up/moving around is soooo much easier than two mics. It can also be either M/S or coincident pair...

M
I really need to second this. I've got the SF-24, which is the active version of the SF-12, and it is amazing as an overhead mic. It's got really good imaging in Blumlein or M/S. M/S is my personal favorite because of the strong center. In any case, it's awesome. The SF-12 is probably just as nice if you have a good pair of mic pres and don't need to run really long cables. The SF-12 is also WAY cheaper. I just saw one go on EvilBay for $1580.

The SF-12/SF-24's also have a really sweet high-end. It's not hyped, but it'll take a lot of EQ without sounding harsh. Plus, a stereo mic is way easier to deal with than two mics. Of course, you can't do a spaced pair with one mic. But, coincident pairs have great (realistic) imaging and eliminate the phase issues.

SF-12/SF-24...Do it.
Old 18th April 2009
  #52
Gear Head
 

I'd say either Earthworks or the Octava mk-012.
Old 18th April 2009
  #53
Gear Addict
 
NoisyNarrowBand's Avatar
 

how high is your ceiling?!

anything under 6" will give you a lot of 5k nastiness. even if padded with room-treatment.

also consider close micing every cymbal in addition to the oh's.
Old 18th April 2009
  #54
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dangoudie's Avatar
 

I've always found 414 ULS's to be very 'honest'

You would be very pleasantly surprised by a pair of SE Z5600a MkII's
More detailed than the 414s and more 'real'
Old 18th April 2009
  #55
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Fishmed's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangoudie View Post
I've always found 414 ULS's to be very 'honest'
That is where I would like to go. I got to use one the other week on an Accoustic guitar, and I was ver happy with the sound.

I did move into another pair of mics until I could afford a pair pf the 414.

Here are some samples:
Dry OH
Dry Mix
Wet Mix (Added EQ & Reverb)
Full Mix

I will let you know the OH mics if these test come back positive.
Old 18th April 2009
  #56
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opentune's Avatar
 

I had very pleasant results using the Sennheiser MKH40. Great microphone,
not cheap, though.
Don´t know if the ones i used were a matched pair... Anyway, it sounded
great AND realistic. If that makes sense.
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