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Avril: ITB vs OTB DAW Software
Old 26th August 2007
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyer Maker View Post
By this logic, if Keanu Reeves was not a great actor, why would he keep getting acting jobs?
.
exactly my point.

onwards and upwards towards the buzzy, bright, harsh and nasty light....



...
Old 26th August 2007
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
...George Martin, who probably doesn't even know how to split an audio part in Pro Tools. Different times, different heroes.
Right. For that, you get Giles!
Old 26th August 2007
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye View Post
exactly my point.

onwards and upwards towards the buzzy, bright, harsh and nasty light....

...
Right! Until that goes out of style like 80s reverb and er, ummm....I was going to list a bunch of tacky trends in recording, but not sure what they are....most of the ones I can think of are still in style in one way or another, like drum machines for example. 80s reverb is probably in style, too...right? Should be anyway...
Old 26th August 2007
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
Right. For that, you get Giles!
Right. Still, he did what? Beck, Kule Shaker, INXS.. Not very impressive considering he's George Martin's son (recognition was never a problem from the start).
Old 26th August 2007
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Yes. This is not a comparison at all. Doesn't make any sense to compare 2 different songs, 2 different engineers, and 2 different methods.
Thank you.
Old 26th August 2007
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Right. Still, he did what? Beck, Kule Shaker, INXS.. Not very impressive considering he's George Martin's son (recognition was never a problem from the start).
Well la-de-da.
Old 26th August 2007
  #127
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All these just about sum this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Yes. This is not a comparison at all. Doesn't make any sense to compare 2 different songs, 2 different engineers, and 2 different methods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
Is it me, or are the people who like the ITB one, or mix ITB, a little defensive?
Actually since this thread I've noticed that it's a reverse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLueROom View Post
The fact that people are choosing different favs is proof enough that is doesn't matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
I can't help but wonder if many of these comments would be different if people didn't know which was which!

I sense G.S. B.S.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo View Post
I've read this ENTIRE thread and what I REALLY see is the SAME old agenda posturing!

ITB vs OTB... people veil their comments with ass-covering statements, but it still seems like people are pushing their personal preferences or CLA star-fvcuking influenced answers and not really giving insights of substance.

I still argue if people didn't know which was what what medium, WHO mixed... the B.S. would go away and we'd hear FAR different thoughts.
Old 26th August 2007
  #128
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[QUOTE=TheNoize;1459493

Yes I do think these mixes are great, by today's standards. I guess you prefer a 1970 Led Zeppelin mix?
[/QUOTE]

I guess I am outta date..YEA I prefer everything about zep to this auto tuned beat detectived garbage.
Old 26th August 2007
  #129
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this whole CD sounds like fake crap to me. ITB outta the box...thats the least of the problems here. The drums sound so freekin fake it's silly, they are too dry and present for my taste, they sound like a drum machine. The vocal is dry and harsh...ehhhh... No depth. Not a great piece of work IMO. dfegad

But these guys are making more loot then me..
Old 26th August 2007
  #130
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The first versions (and I only found out it 's ITB after listening to the clip) sounds VASTLY superior to my ears here (Genelec 8040s w/UA 2192's DA). I can't believe that it's from the same album and mastered. There's way more tightness and punch to the ITB and it manages to make the music more 'exciting' (and I apply that term loosely as I too hate the music but that's not the point here, is it?)

But probably much more than any OTB/ITB argument it's just one more reminder to me that I really don't like CLA's mixing in general. There are TONS of mixers both old and young whose work I admire but CLA's mixes always sound very routine, flat and generic to me. Even on stuff that I actually like musically, like say Green Day's 'American Idiot' record.
Old 26th August 2007
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
The first versions (and I only found out it 's ITB after listening to the clip) sounds VASTLY superior to my ears here (Genelec 8040s w/UA 2192's DA). I can't believe that it's from the same album and mastered. There's way more tightness and punch to the ITB and it manages to make the music more 'exciting' (and I apply that term loosely as I too hate the music but that's not the point here, is it?)

But probably much more than any OTB/ITB argument it's just one more reminder to me that I really don't like CLA's mixing in general. There are TONS of mixers both old and young whose work I admire but CLA's mixes always sound very routine, flat and generic to me. Even on stuff that I actually like musically, like say Green Day's 'American Idiot' record.
Oh. Ok. CLA is routine and flat...? I must be in the wrong place here, then. Bye

Is there a "Pro" forum at Gearslutz? I might want to try that one.
Old 26th August 2007
  #132
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Oh. Ok. CLA is routine and flat...? I must be in the wrong place here, then. Bye

Is there a "Pro" forum at Gearslutz? I might want to try that one.
This is just my honest opinion, I don't mean that it's bad sounding. Like some people were going nuts over the snare sound that CLA got on the Wallflowers 'One Headlight' and I never really liked it.

YMMV. FWIW. IMHO.....or just WTF.

I could name about 100 mixers whose work I absolutely adore.....
Old 26th August 2007
  #133
Deleted bd1be4f
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What we know--one song was mixed ITB and one OTB.

What we don't know--how much of the sonic differences are attributable to the gear vs. mixing choices made by the respective engineers.

Therefore, this entire comparison is flawed, at least from the perspective of making any direct comparison between ITB and OTB.

The Digidesign ITB/OTB test was a much better measuring stick for comparison. And from that exercise what I took away from it was that I won't be running out any time soon to drop $40k on an SSL...
Old 26th August 2007
  #134
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
Therefore, this entire comparison is flawed, at least from the perspective of making any direct comparison between ITB and OTB.
It is a comparison and not a contest. I think it's interesting to hear the differences between the two approaches. (And it's surely more neutral than a test posted by Digidesign)

If the ITB lacks 'dimension' then it's only because the music is a depressing display of run-of-the-mill 'modern' rock that has NO depth or dimension to begin with.The OTB seems to soften something that shouldn't been softened at all. It reminds me of a story one of my music teachers told about a review that violinist Isaac Stern got. The reviewer was praising Stern's softening of the edges of Bartok's music. The point of the teacher was that if Bartok wrote a dissonance then he WANTED to hear a dissonance because it served a musical intention. With this logic one can even argue that certain genres actually benefit from 'stupid loud' mixes and masters. It's only said when other stuff gets ruined for no reason and that applies to most modern audio techniques like tuning, sample-replacing,etc.

I'm not familiar with Avril's music at all but changes are that the songs would sound even worse WITHOUT heavy tuning, grid-ing, etc

I remember that Dave Pensando said something to the effect of 'I don't want no friggin' warmth in my mixes!' when he was guest-modding here. I often think about that because ultimately I think he was talking about doing what's right for the song and that could call for vastly different measures depending on the material at hand, say jazz vs. hip-hop, etc


I think it's the mixer's job to bring out the best in the music, no matter how formulaic the song might be.
For the material at hand, the ITB manages to do this much better in my opinion because the mixer choose to emphasize the 'tightness', 'punch' and 'sheen' of the production.
Old 26th August 2007
  #135
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Warmth is desired when you're already dealing with distortion in a mix, like a hard rock mix.

You definitely don't want too much "warmth" in a Jazz or classical mix (that's why the Millenia preamps got so famous for that genre). And in most Pop also. Although more subtle and "clean" class A "warmth" (Neve) is usually desired, whatever the style is.

I don't know, a friend of mine swore he could hear a huge improvement with OTB in the Digidesign test, and he though Digidesign were stupid for making it so obvious to everyone how amazingly superior the SSL sound is compared to ITB Pro Tools...

I for one couldn't really notice that much of a difference to be honest. Maybe my ears suck. I don't know.

All I now is, I already have the Apogee A/D, so my dream vocal chain would be complete with a U47 and a Neve 1073 warmth...
Old 26th August 2007
  #136
Gear Head
 

We're comparing 2 different songs here. Tracked, played, engineered and produced by different people. That's why this entire discussion is absolutely useless.

Do "The Matrix" mix ITB or OTB? I have their mix of Avril's "Complicated". We could compare it to CLAs or TLAs mix (whoever of them mixed the album version).
Old 26th August 2007
  #137
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy View Post
We're comparing 2 different songs here. Tracked, played, engineered and produced by different people. That's why this entire discussion is absolutely useless.
No, it isn't! The 'style' of the music is pretty consistent but the sonic differences are huge. It bugs me that anytime somebody posts a comparison for educational purposes he will get the 'it's not equal' treatment. It's nothing more than an interesting way to look at certain differences with audio production. Nobody will be harmed and everybody can make their own conclusions.

Nothing is equal and you always need to take certain variables into account, no matter how scienmtific the comparison might be, at least as long as HUMAN BEINGS are still involved somewhere down the line and at least that's still the case here.
Old 26th August 2007
  #138
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Quote:
A mixing engineer who didn't evolve with the times cannot be trusted by any serious musician/professional. These are the ones who couldn't cope with the changes in media format (MP3) and loudness wars in mastering, as well as the obvious dramatic changes in mixing (different panning, aggressive compression, effects), so they still complain about the stylistic changes in the last 20 years. Unless the artist wants a vintage 1960 style sound in their album, instead of being up to date with the latest tendencies in what sounds great, one should stay away from that type of engineer.

Simply put, this is why a relatively young rock engineer of today, like Ben Grosse, is a lot more trustworthy for up to date mixing advice than George Martin, who probably doesn't even know how to split an audio part in Pro Tools. Different times, different heroes.
I disagree with this. All respect to CLA and his ilk - they come from a time of competition, individuality, and the drive to be different. You know what the biggest problem with a CLA mix is (to me/IMO). It's that every ****** is trying to sound like him and it's getting old. Fast.

I mean while you guys are picking out the differences, every time I turn on the radio I'm thinking - why does this all sound the same? I'm purely talking about sound here.

As far as I'm concerned, I think the "new generation" is is dated. Stuck in the 90's, playing it safe on the coat tails of guys like CLA who tried to stand out. Now I'm painting with a broad stroke here, but I think it's true in the mainstream.

Time for them to grow a set of balls and reinvent this thing.
Old 26th August 2007
  #139
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Rednose's Avatar
I mix ITB and thought the SSL mixes sounded better to me.
Warmer, a bit more depth.
The vocals sounded brittle in the ITB version, but they were also louder and a female vocalist can sound brittle to my ears.
ITB is getting closer, you've gotta admit that!
Old 26th August 2007
  #140
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skybluerental's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kats View Post
I disagree with this. All respect to CLA and his ilk - they come from a time of competition, individuality, and the drive to be different. You know what the biggest problem with a CLA mix is (to me/IMO). It's that every ****** is trying to sound like him and it's getting old. Fast.

I mean while you guys are picking out the differences, every time I turn on the radio I'm thinking - why does this all sound the same? I'm purely talking about sound here.

As far as I'm concerned, I think the "new generation" is is dated. Stuck in the 90's, playing it safe on the coat tails of guys like CLA who tried to stand out. Now I'm painting with a broad stroke here, but I think it's true in the mainstream.

Time for them to grow a set of balls and reinvent this thing.
yes yes yes.
i agree with this 100%.
modern mixes often due sound dated in their own way! thats so true.

and the drums on both of the recordings in question here do not sound very organic or warm to me. neither does anything else.

id rather hear the sound of a band playing in a room(or at least be tricked into perceiving it by great engineering) than listen to something cut and pasted to perfection and squashed to hell. dont get me wrong, i love compression and dry sounds, but i like mixing that has some character and these mixes lack that IMHO.
they are dated in the worst possible way.

THE NOIZE, if you want to hear some GREAT mixes, buy some records that were done by tchad blake. The Bad Plus "These are the Vistas", Los Lobos "Collosal Head", Peter Gabrial "UP", Soul Coughing "El Oso". MANY MANY MORE as well.

also, check out And You Will Know Us By The Trail of Dead records "So Divided" and "Worlds Apart".
Elbow "Leaders of the Free World" mixed mostly by tom rothrock is also AMAZING!
the Radiohead catalog might help you along as well.

for REAL room sound, check out miles davis "in a silent way" or "kind of blue".
and then see if you still support your comment that jazz music isnt supposed to sound too "warm."

and yes anything Led Zeppelin ever did sounds better than either of these mixes to me. the SOUND of those zep records is so undeniable i cant believe you would even mention it in the same breath as these tunes by averill.

and if you think there arent pros on this forum........ HUH, did you not read mike caffreys post earlier in this forum???? HE RECORDED SOME OF THE MUSIC IN QUESTION HERE!
Old 26th August 2007
  #141
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
It is a comparison and not a contest. I think it's interesting to hear the differences between the two approaches. (And it's surely more neutral than a test posted by Digidesign)
Sorry, but it is most certainly NOT more neutral than the Digidesign test. This comparison compares two different songs, and most importantly mixed by two different mixers with two very different approaches and aesthetics toward mixing. How in the world can it be considered a neutral comparison?

The only comparison that can be drawn in this case is to hear the difference in approach taken by two different mix engineers. In this case the fact that one happened to use ITB and one happened to use OTB is incidental.
Old 26th August 2007
  #142
Deleted bd1be4f
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
No, it isn't! The 'style' of the music is pretty consistent but the sonic differences are huge.
The problem is you seem to be attributing the sonic differences mostly or completely to the ITB/OTB aspect, as opposed to the fact that both songs were mixed by two totally different mixers with very different approaches.

Once again, all this comparison tells us for certain is that in a similar style of music, two different mixers will yield two different types of mixes. To draw any other conclusions than that is purely speculative.
Old 26th August 2007
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skybluerental View Post
yes yes yes.
i agree with this 100%.
modern mixes often due sound dated in their own way! thats so true.

and the drums on both of the recordings in question here do not sound very organic or warm to me. neither does anything else.

id rather hear the sound of a band playing in a room(or at least be tricked into perceiving it by great engineering) than listen to something cut and pasted to perfection and squashed to hell. dont get me wrong, i love compression and dry sounds, but i like mixing that has some character and these mixes lack that IMHO.
they are dated in the worst possible way.

THE NOIZE, if you want to hear some GREAT mixes, buy some records that were done by tchad blake. The Bad Plus "These are the Vistas", Los Lobos "Collosal Head", Peter Gabrial "UP", Soul Coughing "El Oso". MANY MANY MORE as well.

also, check out And You Will Know Us By The Trail of Dead records "So Divided" and "Worlds Apart".
Elbow "Leaders of the Free World" mixed mostly by tom rothrock is also AMAZING!
the Radiohead catalog might help you along as well.

for REAL room sound, check out miles davis "in a silent way" or "kind of blue".
and then see if you still support your comment that jazz music isnt supposed to sound too "warm."

and yes anything Led Zeppelin ever did sounds better than either of these mixes to me. the SOUND of those zep records is so undeniable i cant believe you would even mention it in the same breath as these tunes by averill.

and if you think there arent pros on this forum........ HUH, did you not read mike caffreys post earlier in this forum???? HE RECORDED SOME OF THE MUSIC IN QUESTION HERE!
Of course there might be pros, but most of you don't have the attitude one would expect from a pro, sorry. A pro would understand and immediately respect the ones who love the "MTV" Rock sound (CLA style). You guys think you belong to a special audiophile elite jsut because you don't like the mainstream mixing sound, and the cockyness comes through.
Getting old? It will get old when something better sounding than that formula comes around. Until now, nothing. So I will continue to take those mixes as the ultimate perfection to strive for...

And You Will Know Us By The Trail of Dead, IMHO is a mixing joke. Horrible to my ears, with frequencies fighting all over the place. And maybe you're confusing things.

For example, just because I love Tool as musicians, doesn't make me an eternal fan of their album mixes. I think engineering wise Tool albums are a disgrace. But I love the music. 2 different things. Then again, maybe that f*cked-up mixing style is already part of their sound, and getting rid of it would undermine the fan base...
Old 26th August 2007
  #144
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
A room? hm... Can you give us an example of a good mix where you hear things happening in a "room"?
Yes listen to the new Cold War Kids 'Robbers and Cowards" record
Regardless of whether you like the music or not,It sounds like a Real band playing in a real[amazing] room playing REAL instruments.
sounds like a REAL record.
Recorded by Kevin Agunas /mixed by Dave Sardy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Yes I do think these mixes are great, by today's standards. I guess you prefer a 1970 Led Zeppelin mix?
"Todays Standards"..Sorry man,but thats a total joke to me.
I'll take old Zep mixes over this trendy sounding garbage any day of the week.
the old stuff isn't old,its timeless and still sounds better than the majority of the overcompressed/autotuned/beat detective'd to death/Sample replaced SHEEIIT on the radio today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
The drums still sound like they are played, and that's the essential.
Umm..See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
....A mixing engineer who didn't evolve with the times cannot be trusted by any serious musician/professional. These are the ones who couldn't cope with the changes in media format (MP3) and loudness wars in mastering, as well as the obvious dramatic changes in mixing (different panning, aggressive compression, effects), so they still complain about the stylistic changes in the last 20 years. Unless the artist wants a vintage 1960 style sound in their album, instead of being up to date with the latest tendencies in what sounds great, one should stay away from that type of engineer.
"being up to date with the latest tendencies in what sounds great"..

WTF?
..I remember the hacks saying that crap in the small/brittle/crunchy Eighties..that the old stuff[Neve,Helios,etc] was "Out of Date" .. ..
and about how Adats were the bees knees in the early Nineties,etc,etc.

Suckers.

People will still be buying the "Vintage" Beatles, Stones,Zep **** 20 years from now.
you know why?
Because the songs are great and it still sounds great.

hehdfegadCreed and Nickelback?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Simply put, this is why a relatively young rock engineer of today, like Ben Grosse, is a lot more trustworthy for up to date mixing advice than George Martin, who probably doesn't even know how to split an audio part in Pro Tools. Different times, different heroes.
You have got to be kidding
Old 26th August 2007
  #145
Gear Maniac
 
TheNoize's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Yes listen to the new Cold War Kids 'Robbers and Cowards" record
Regardless of whether you like the music or not,It sounds like a Real band playing in a real room playing REAL instruments.
sounds like a REAL record.
Recorded by Kevin Agunas /mixed by Dave Sardy.



"Todays Standards"..Sorry man,but thats a total joke to me.
I'll take old Zep mixes over this trendy sounding garbage any day of the week.
the old stuff isn't old,its timeless and still sounds better than the majority of the overcompressed/autotuned/beat detective'd to death/Sample replaced SHEEIIT on the radio today.




See above.



"being up to date with the latest tendencies in what sounds great"..

WTF?
..I remember the hacks saying that crap in the small/brittle/crunchy Eighties..that the old stuff[Neve,Helios,etc] was "Out of Date" .. and about Adats in the in the Nineties,etc,etc.

Suckers.

People will still be buying the "Vintage" Beatles, Stones,Zep **** 20 years from now.
you know why?
Because the songs are great and it still sounds great.

hehdfegadCreed and Nickelback?




You have got to be kidding
You're definitely confusing everything in your head. I was talking precisely about people like you.
No, I'm not kidding. You're the one who was for the first time faced with an idea, and to you it sounds "crazy" and you don't know how to react to it, because you already grew for years on a different belief system. Yes the sound has changed, things get dated, just as some of your colleages mentioned. The drum sound with plate reverb died after the 80's and the "garage band" roomy rock sound died in the 70s.

The modern rock sound IS the wall of guitars, which IMHO was a great breakthrough in stereo mixing. It's the way rock sounds best, with compression to accentuate the power of each hit, and stereo guitars to give a sense of dimension.

If you disagree, go ahead. Just don't try to impose your system too much. If you strive for 70s Led Zeppelin sound, I would definitely not pick you to mix MY rock album, because I wouldn't even get any radio play with that kind of mix... That's all I have to say.
Old 26th August 2007
  #146
Gear Head
 
Blearyoftimothy's Avatar
 

avrils box

i'd like to get into Avrils box.... the first track sounds like a plastic chinese kick drum.
Old 26th August 2007
  #147
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
You're definitely confusing everything in your head. I was talking precisely about people like you.
No, I'm not kidding. You're the one who was for the first time faced with an idea, and to you it sounds "crazy" and you don't know how to react to it, because you already grew for years on a different belief system.
Nope, no confusion here bro..
it doesnt sound "Crazy" to me.. but just plain bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
Yes the sound has changed, things get dated, just as some of your colleages mentioned. The drum sound with plate reverb died after the 80's and the "garage band" roomy rock sound died in the 70s.

The modern rock sound IS the wall of guitars, which IMHO was a great breakthrough in stereo mixing. It's the way rock sounds best, with compression to accentuate the power of each hit, and stereo guitars to give a sense of dimension.
"It's the way rock sounds best"hehheh
sorry but that is really funny.
Also, Modern Rock?what is that?
what makes it so superior to maybe the "not so Modern Rock" of 5/10/15/20 years ago?
And hate to break the news but Compression and Stereo guitars have been around for a loooong time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoize View Post
If you disagree, go ahead. Just don't try to impose your system too much. If you strive for 70s Led Zeppelin sound, I would definitely not pick you to mix MY rock album, because I wouldn't even get any radio play with that kind of mix... That's all I have to say.
I don't have a system.
and I don't strive for a 70's zep sound dude.
I strive for what sounds good to me and the client...
Radio Play?
Is that all you care about?..
Is that what you equate as success?
most of the "Modern" stuff I hear on the radio sounds like garbage to me.
I listen to a lot of Satellite radio though...lots of variety and a lot less record label corporate rock pimpin

As far as mixing your "Rock" record is concerned..Musically,taste wise we're probably worlds apart.. So no, i probably wouldn't be the right guy..
thats ok.
different strokes.
Later.. and Modern Rock on dude
Old 26th August 2007
  #148
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
The problem is you seem to be attributing the sonic differences mostly or completely to the ITB/OTB aspect, as opposed to the fact that both songs were mixed by two totally different mixers with very different approaches.
Well, I'm surely conscious that it's two diffferent guys mixing but the fact that one has a big SSL and the other might work ITB is a direct consequence of their respective approaches.

In other words, comparing a CLA mix done on his usual SSL vs. a CLA mix done ITB wouldn't work because a) to the best of my knowledge CLA doesn't mix ITB and b) even if he would do it after say losing a bet or something then most likely he wouldn't be comfortable with it because his way of doing things demands a console. And that's fine!

I only try to show you that no test can be 'objective' and I don't think that this was the intention of the original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboy2854 View Post
Once again, all this comparison tells us for certain is that in a similar style of music, two different mixers will yield two different types of mixes. To draw any other conclusions than that is purely speculative.
I can surely draw the conclusion that I like the 'first' mixes much more and realize the fact that they basically were done ITB. If outboard gear was used along with the ITB that's fine because I personally think that's the best approach anyway.

I only know that I like the 'first' mixes much better, and this is about the mixer, his gear and his techniques.

My personal opinion is that ITB can yield great results these days, IF the mixer is great. I think it's very significant that people like Tchad Blake finally made the transition to ITB mixing.
Old 26th August 2007
  #149
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

To me the reason all these modern rock songs sound the same isn't because of the mixes, but because of the songs. As someone said, everything is a wall of guitars with no dynamics or anything.

What happened to the guitar hero gun slinger who actually played riffs and pretty much dueted (made up word?) with the lead vocal? Now i9t's just a contest to see who can layer the most guitar chords on top of each other. 20 guitar tracks all playing the same rhythm. How about just one guitar track being original? Whatever happened to riffs? Or how about *gasp* a solo.
Old 26th August 2007
  #150
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper View Post
I just noticed that too. It seems CLA is using Terry Manning's Cardinal Points® Pan Law as discussed here:

PSW Recording Forums: Whatever Works => Cardinal Points® Pan Law Scientifically Explained

It really seems to open things up and I wonder if that's it more than the ITB vs OTB.

Laws are meant to be broken, just don't get caught.

The album American Idiot "Green Day" Mixed by Chris Lord Alge sounds fantastic to my ears, yet My Chemical Romance produced and mixed by the same team lacks a little sonic bliss for my personal tastes. Songwriting might play a part in this. Possibly performance. Maybe format. Time $$$$$$$. Who Knows.

ITB vs. OTB, Democrat vs. Republican, Mac vs. PC.
Arguments for each, no one can win.

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