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Avril: ITB vs OTB DAW Software
Old 24th August 2007
  #31
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Dyer Maker's Avatar
 

Interesting sample. There are some cool things about both the mixes, but the idea that there are guys out there making records for people that can not hear a difference or consider the differences subtle really concerns me!!
Old 24th August 2007
  #32
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elkpantscamino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyer Maker View Post
Interesting sample. There are some cool things about both the mixes, but the idea that there are guys out there making records for people that can not hear a difference or consider the differences subtle really concerns me!!
HELL YEAH!
Old 25th August 2007
  #33
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
to me - the ITB mix is flat and 2D, and the console mix has more depth, and sounds more 3D heh

yes..but it is not because in the OTB mix the obvious gtr panning and the sound of the guitars in that song makes everything more obvious(wide) and more 3D??
Old 25th August 2007
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIEL View Post
yes..but it is not because in the OTB mix the obvious gtr panning and the sound of the guitars in that song makes everything more obvious(wide) and more 3D??
Nope - to me it is depth behind the whole mix.... noticeable in the whole mix, but especially lead vocal and drums...... to me, that is.
Old 25th August 2007
  #35
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Yeah the CLA mix is more 3d definitely - and the thwack of the snare is so much more satisfying (my taste) than the balm of the snare in the first. There is something going on with the verbs that make that 2nd one just more groovy, for me anyway.
Old 25th August 2007
  #36
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Also keep in mind the two songs were done by different producers at different studios. Noone knows which one had better sounding tracks.

Cant deny the quality of the tracking is much more important then whether its mixed ITB or OTB.
Old 25th August 2007
  #37
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Is it possible that both mixes are great and it's just a matter of taste?

Everyone has something that they are looking for sonically in a mix.
The OTB guys have a certain criteria and the ITB have a different set of criteria.
But IMO, there is no "one mix beats another". It's just a matter of taste.
Old 25th August 2007
  #38
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Is it possible that both mixes are great and it's just a matter of taste?

Everyone has something that they are looking for sonically in a mix.
The OTB guys have a certain criteria and the ITB have a different set of criteria.
But IMO, there is no "one mix beats another". It's just a matter of taste.
Well said

It's all semantics at this stage ! I like good mixes ITB , OTB or outer this world concerns me the the least ...

Out the the two mixes in the test the ITB sounds bigger , with a bigger but not as tight bottom end ! The OTB sounds more compact ....

BTW Thanks for the test Ronan ....
Old 25th August 2007
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Well said

It's all semantics at this stage ! ......
well...... in my opinon.... no... to me it is 2D vs 3D

I can hear the differences on my laptop speakers!!!

It may be subjective, but.... I prefer the DEPTH of the console mix in this case.

Old 25th August 2007
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
well...... in my opinon.... no... to me it is 2D vs 3D

I can hear the differences on my laptop speakers!!!

It may be subjective, but.... I prefer the DEPTH of the console mix in this case.

O.K. you prefer one over the other for your own reasons , and you also think it is subjective at the same time , in this case i prefer the biggness of the ITB mix ! Do you are agree that the ITB mix is a good mix regardless of your preference ?
Old 25th August 2007
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red View Post
Also keep in mind the two songs were done by different producers at different studios. Noone knows which one had better sounding tracks.

Cant deny the quality of the tracking is much more important then whether its mixed ITB or OTB.
My bad.. I looked at the credits wrong... same producer for both songs.
Old 25th August 2007
  #42
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BLueROom's Avatar
 

The fact that people are choosing different favs is proof enough that is doesn't matter.
Old 25th August 2007
  #43
84K
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the ITB mixed section is more open and pounded out part of the song. Very cool to do the A-B but you should next time use the loudest/highest energy part of both songs to compare. The OTB mix was not as bright and the guitars have more meat. I preferred the OTB mix. It ITB is clearer and more clicky. Both sound great though, so it is a matter of taste. I prefer the more lower midrange in the guitars and the softer top end.
Old 25th August 2007
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
well...... in my opinon.... no... to me it is 2D vs 3D

I can hear the differences on my laptop speakers!!!

It may be subjective, but.... I prefer the DEPTH of the console mix in this case.

come on guys this is getting stupid. 2 different AEs did a mix according to their particular taste with different gear, in different rooms, and we're discussing which medium is 'better' or delivers 'more 3D' mixes? if you like one over the other, it's a statement on which AE you should hire to do your next project; not whether in or OTB is any better.

if CLA or any AE did two mixes of the same song on two different days with the same gear there would be differences for cryin' out loud. if this weren't true no one would need recall. i'm sure avril will be selling some records with either mix.

i.e. shipley said he preferred the mixes he did at home over ones he did on a K or J (can't remember which), as did the label and the band. does this mean everyone should throw their Ks out the window and go buy an Icon? NO!!!

this is like arguing which is more 3D, API or Neve. come on... i got yer 3D right over heeeeah..... rant over.

BTW mixerguy this is directed to the thread in general, not you.
Old 25th August 2007
  #45
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I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a preference, and I think it matters as to what you want to use to make or record your music or how you want it to sound, and I think it matters to varying degrees to the listener, too. They might not know technically why or what the difference is...
Old 25th August 2007
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a preference, and I think it matters as to what you want to use to make or record your music or how you want it to sound, and I think it matters to varying degrees to the listener, too. They might not know technically why or what the difference is...
indeed, so the only one who's opinion really matters on this is oneself's, after all.

i'm just saying that this exercise, though interesting, and i appreciate having had the chance to listen, just confirms that it's a matter of personal choice... kinda like politics and religion. people harping on the same deal trying to convince the others that their method is 'right' and someone else's is somehow flawed just gets old.
Old 25th August 2007
  #47
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thanks raal, for the soundcheck - it was about time...

..
Old 25th August 2007
  #48
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Raal keepin' it real

Gotta agree with Raal.

And I think part of the BIGGER issue here (and I'd argue what we're MOSTLY hearing) is HOW it was mixed, not what it was mixed on.

Don't you all think HOW it was mixed and what was used to mix it is going to have more of a critical impact on our perception of which sounds better?

I happen to like the first mix, it was ITB... BUT I can't to any degree of honesty tell you it's because I like ITB better... I think the MIX sounded better.

Maybe it was HOW it was mixed. Maybe it was WHAT was given to mix. And ALL the hardware and software between the two.

We shouldn't get too caught up on the medium or even the name, CLA or not. Just too many more important variables t really judge.

If it was CLA, same song, same mix, different media, THEN we'd have a discussion... anything less is G.S. B.S. self-serving wankfestheh

-a
Old 25th August 2007
  #49
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i don't know, DH.

i put both mixes through my elektrix filter factory,

and they sound KILLIN'.....heh


(although, the itb mix cuts more around 384 KHz....

esPECially when i transmography into my dog personality)


.
Old 25th August 2007
  #50
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audiomichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
It's just a matter of taste.
I think that the Serban mix serves the song better even though it has sort of a 'Colorforms' 2 dimensional thing to it...it sounds like pop music.

The CLA mix sounds great, but somehow doesn't fit the song's vibe quite right to me. It's sooo signature CLA that it keep waiting for Chris Daughtry's vocals to come in!
Old 25th August 2007
  #51
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BradM's Avatar
I hear greater separation, more clarity, and more pronounced transients and punch in the ITB mix. I hear more of a smeary flatness (some may call this "gel"), louder/bigger guitars, and pushed back vocals in the OTB mix. There's definitely more low mids overall as well. I don't hear a lot of deep low end in either mix. And the drum sounds are exactly the drum sounds I personally try to steer away from. To be honest I dislike those kick and snare sounds. That sounds like a 57 jammed up on the top of the snare and then limited with an 1176 in the OTB mix.

to my ears both mixes sound flat and lack depth. I think that has more to do with the production and tracking than with mixing though.

I dfegad on cookie cutter radio friendly mixes.

Brad
Old 25th August 2007
  #52
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blaugruen7's Avatar
the first was itb? funny.

guys, in THIS case isnt the actually mixing person the bigger difference?
Old 25th August 2007
  #53
84K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaugruen7 View Post
the first was itb? funny.

guys, in THIS case isnt the actually mixing person the bigger difference?
that would be the case in any/every situation. The person mixing will always make more of a difference than the gear.
Old 25th August 2007
  #54
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Old 25th August 2007
  #55
.

yes, and sometimes i beat my gear - just to show it who's boss....



.
Old 25th August 2007
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
.....Do you are agree that the ITB mix is a good mix regardless of your preference ?
Actually... no. I think the ITB mix sounds buzzy, flat, harsh and nasty, in my opinion.
Old 25th August 2007
  #57
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqye View Post
.

yes, and sometimes i beat my gear - just to show it who's boss....



.
Lol ......
Old 25th August 2007
  #58
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H-Rezz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
Actually... no. I think the ITB mix sounds buzzy, flat, harsh and nasty, in my opinion.
Then you must have bionic ears heh
Old 25th August 2007
  #59
I think I find the range of opinions on this comparison even more interesting than the differences in the mixes. Its actually really enlightening, which is why I checked out the album in the first place.

I found the difference to be quite stark. One thing I found interesting is that mix one displayed most of the characteristics I associate with ITB mixing, and the second had the qualities I associate with analog mixing.

Neither of these are my fave mixes ever (even though I like both mixers), but I personally preferred everything about the sound of the second mix. The things that made me like the second one better was that it had a much better sense of depth, width and dimension. Certainly a little bit of that has to do with the guitar panning (and that one guitar is a bit more distorted), but the ITB mix sounds very 2 dimensional and the OTB mix seems to go back further and there is space around the instruments. To me there was also a cohesiveness to track 2.

Beyond the spacial elements, I found the over all tonality better on the OTB mix. Avril's voice sounded better to my ears especially when played loud.

The aggressive top end and the kick/snare pushed up further in the mix made the ITB a little more exciting at first, but when I cranked up the volume the ITB mix got kind of harsh and I could not imagine listening to too many songs in a row with the volume cranked. To my ear the OTB mix got bigger when cranked without getting unpleasant. when cranked up I found the ITB mix to push me away and the OTB to sort of pull me in.

One thing that this thread proves is that its different strokes for different folks. I found mix two to be sonically superior in every way, but based on the answers so far I might be in the "out dated" minority.
Old 25th August 2007
  #60
.

and so, once again,

a small, and yet remotely widespread network of unsuspecting forum engineers,

blabbering incessantly and incoherently,

contributes somewhat inadvertently, and however insignificantly,

to the untraceable pr propogation machine,

thereby inevitably leading to a detectable increase in sales of vanilla girl's new CD...



jusssss playin'.......no, not really. heh

.
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