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Avril: ITB vs OTB DAW Software
Old 31st August 2007
  #331
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The MPCist's Avatar
 

I use my 'Avril' 1272, 1073's in my studio -- It allows me to sound just like that

I don't use any 'Lavigne' gear -- sold off all my Manley gear (don't ask why).

So in actuality, my mixes only sound 1/2 of Avril Lavigne which is a bummer








heh
Old 31st August 2007
  #332
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Thanks to this thread, I bought the Avril Lavigne CD. On my first listen (while my wife held the credits) I tried to guess who mixed what. The Serban Ghenea mixes were simple to decipher, but Chris Lord Alge, Tom Lord Alge and (since I did not know he existed) Deryck Whibley was a little more difficult. Since I knew TLA and CLA's work I got all first 4 or 5 songs right. 2nd song was obviously CLA and the Piano intro song was the obvious TLA. After the guessing song 1 "Girlfriend" which had reminiscent Sonics of Pink, picking the rest of Serban's was easy. All drum machine-sounding songs. Fav mixers on this record in this order:

Tom Lord Alge
Chris Lord Alge
Serban Ghenea
Deryck Whibley

I am glad I bought this record, and would not have if it were not for GS. #1 it is catchy and she is making records that have good songs. #2 it made a fun game. I am not sure I will choose to listen to it again, but I am sure it will get played now it is in the house.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 31st August 2007
  #333
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Probably the Same reason you are...Boredom and Drugs man.
heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP11 View Post
But what do you care if I care?
i don't, but what do you care if i don't care that you care?

sorry, had to do it.
Old 31st August 2007
  #334
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks to this thread, I bought the Avril Lavigne CD.
Blue Thumb Productions-Audio Production Facilities


In a funny way this thread has been a strange marketing tool to sell Avril CD's..
to play the ITB/OTB game!
Old 31st August 2007
  #335
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
... (since I did not know he existed) Deryck Whibley was a little more difficult.

This is Deryck Whibley
Old 31st August 2007
  #336
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
This is Deryck Whibley
I sold that guy some Gennie 1031's for his home studio..nice big spread for recording.
Old 1st September 2007
  #337
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mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
This is Deryck Whibley
Congrats on your Wedding and the Album.

Great job BTW.
Old 1st September 2007
  #338
Gear Maniac
 
Boogle's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoore98 View Post
Best quote ever from a gearslut. I almost fell on the floor laughing.....

heh
+1

ps I am in little doubt the difference between the mixes are not very subtle.
I personally prefer the think the ITB mixes here, because of 'seperation width, depth
etc, CLA mix sounds like it's had the heart taken out.

my 0.02$
Old 1st September 2007
  #339
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

Aside from some BG vocals here and there, the Serban mix is pretty much mono, so I am puzzled about the width comment. Again, the reason I think comparing the choruses would be better so the CLA mix wouldn't be so much wider sounding in the comparison.
Old 1st September 2007
  #340
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogle View Post
+1

(...snip)......
I personally prefer the think the ITB mixes here, because of 'seperation width, depth
etc, CLA mix sounds like it's had the heart taken out.

my 0.02$
we'll agree to disagree then.

Old 4th September 2007
  #341
Gear Head
 
elkpantscamino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
I can't believe that no one has addressed the fact that Ronan made us listen to Avril Lavigne!

You sir, do not fight fair.
too funny, too true
Old 4th September 2007
  #342
Gear Head
 
elkpantscamino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
why are we nuts?

let us say we give two top chefs approximately the same ingredients, and we say to them: make us the best chocolate cake that you can, but chef A has to use a conventional oven to bake the cake, and chef B has to use a microwave.

If I was also a chef, (but I didn’t make as much $, or have as much fame as the two top chefs did....) but still.... I’m a guy who is committed to a life of learning....

So ... I’d really like to try a slice of the cake made in the oven, then immediately try a slice of the cake made in the microwave.... and compare the two. Yes, they are different chefs, but I’d like to learn more about the differences between the two cooking methods, and as well the techniques of two top chefs used in this particular situation.


good analogy!
Old 4th September 2007
  #343
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strings's Avatar
Listening thru cheap speakers at work. A-seems louder and brighter (maybe more compressed), I prefer the less in your face of-B.
Old 4th September 2007
  #344
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strings's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrox247 View Post
I heard that Tom was really busy at the time so he dropped it off at his neighbors house who then mixed it using an Mbox in his garage.

Now what?
That's hilarious!
Old 6th September 2007
  #345
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkpantscamino View Post
good analogy!
thanks
Old 19th July 2010
  #346
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copperx's Avatar
 

Hello everybody. I felt the need to bring this thread out of the grave because I found something better to compare.

The Weezer song "Put me back together". There's a Sherban Ghenea mix and there's a Rich Costey mix.

Both mixes are "engaging" and "musical". But it's easily discernible which one is ITB and which one is OTB. Try it. Both versions are on iTunes. The 30-sec versions suffice.

Any thoughts? HOHOHO.
Old 19th July 2010
  #347
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blacklight_uk's Avatar
 

I listened to this earlier in another thread. Got to say I prefer the ITB mix. It's just more impressive, especially listening on crappy laptop speakers (I also listened with HD650s). The kick and snare smack harder and the separation is incredible. For this style of music it's perfect.
Old 19th July 2010
  #348
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ARIEL's Avatar
This shows both ITB and OTB are equal - The difference between the two mixes is how much room is brought up on the drums - CLA adds more which give a different vibe . Mixes and songs sound great lots of energy great grooves excellent mixes and production . This is pro on all levels .

edit - i just realized this is a 3 yr old thread - lol
Old 19th July 2010
  #349
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Teddy Ray's Avatar
 

expectation bias rears its ugly head. of course people are going to prefer the OTB mixes when they are labeled...and of course the typical buzzwords are bandied about... "depth" "sounds like a record" blah bla..
Old 19th July 2010
  #350
Gear Addict
 
InTheBox's Avatar
At first I thought WOW... B is much warmer than THIN sounding A.

Then I listend to the arrangement. B has a wide stereo bass/guitar ostinato going on that sets the sound far apart from A, making it much more low mid heavy.

So the main difference in sound is due to arrangement IMO.

But I still find I very interesting to listen to the difference in the way the producers work.



-Box
Old 19th July 2010
  #351
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grrrayson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by copperx View Post
Hello everybody. I felt the need to bring this thread out of the grave because I found something better to compare.

The Weezer song "Put me back together". There's a Sherban Ghenea mix and there's a Rich Costey mix.

Both mixes are "engaging" and "musical". But it's easily discernible which one is ITB and which one is OTB. Try it. Both versions are on iTunes. The 30-sec versions suffice.

Any thoughts? HOHOHO.
Good call! 10 seconds is enough. The first one sounds a little brittle and more "2D" whereas the second one is a little easier to listen to and sounds "more like a record."

I prefer the mixing decisions made on the first one (the more distorted bass, the snappier, bigger drums) but the typical ITB/OTB difference is certainly present here, although subtle as always. The mixing decisions of the first with the "analog" sonics of the 2nd would be ideal.

It's worthy of note that the first is quite a bit louder.
Old 20th July 2010
  #352
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satellitedog's Avatar
This is a good thread.

OTB is what I prefer, but it's not down to hardware, just a sense of musicality.

Avril's voice is so lacking in warmth, depth and likable personality, that the warmer mix helps almost make it tolerable, while the "sticker" like 2D pop mix with the hissy separation sounds just like a cartoon parody, living up to what it should be, in your face, modern and brash and pop.
Problem is, it sounds even less like a song for those qualities and that singer in my ears.
Old 20th July 2010
  #353
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Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
I did not kew that this therad exsits.
But also to me the ITB sounded "better" waht ever this means.

But yeah there is huge difference in the arrangements the ITB mix has more base range which is very important for carrying the other things.

I learned something there again and again.

Arrangement is where it starts if a mix sounds good or bad.
Its still the music and not the gear (Geoff Emerick)
Old 20th July 2010
  #354
Gear Nut
 
Titans55's Avatar
After listening to the clip I vastly prefer the 1st mix. It felt bigger, but in honesty I blame the difference more on the song/production/arrangement than on the skills of the mixer.
Old 20th July 2010
  #355
Here for the gear
 

[QUOTE=skybluerental;1456336]console or no console it sounds like music that was pasted together very meticulously in a lab instead of performed by real people.




That is very true, the OTB factor gives it better sonic quality but at the end of the day it sounds very unnatural, i can't picture people doing this in reality...but then again probably people who dig POP music do it because they dont want to hear something real or more natural, instead they want to hear sounds they couldnt possibly hear without all the meticulous operations that can be done in the studio.

But thats not the case of this thread.

My opinion is that at first sight the OTB approach sounds sonically fuller (all frequencies are present) and more pleasant to my ears, but the effect kinda wears out when my ears get tired of listening to it, probably your subconscious digs these differences a lot more than your conscious.
Old 23rd July 2010
  #356
Quote:
Originally Posted by copperx View Post
Hello everybody. I felt the need to bring this thread out of the grave because I found something better to compare.

The Weezer song "Put me back together". There's a Sherban Ghenea mix and there's a Rich Costey mix.

Both mixes are "engaging" and "musical". But it's easily discernible which one is ITB and which one is OTB. Try it. Both versions are on iTunes. The 30-sec versions suffice.

Any thoughts? HOHOHO.
Yes, you're hearing the difference between the two mixers, not the two technologies.

That's not two different mixes of identical source tracks as Serban's clearly has a snare sample that Rich's doesn't.

There's also and overall loudness difference that has as much or more effect than anything else.
Old 23rd July 2010
  #357
Gear Nut
 

If my wife cant hear any difference, then I dont care if it's itb or otb.
Old 24th July 2010
  #358
Gear Nut
 
KrisMiller's Avatar
 

Its impossible to be OBJECTIVE in any comparison between the 2 UNLESS they were the EXACT SAME SONG @ THE EXACT SAME SECTION!!! IDK, maybe God implanted a built in Impulse response frequency analyzer flux capacitor proton pack inside some of y'alls brains....
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